"My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility
Prediction for the future
So considering the use of HN...its more for a DA pad right?
I LOVE the Holy Nova Radar addon, but I found that Im not really paying attention to the # of low health people, mostly just using it to position myself around the most number of people in order to spam HN to build up DA.
If Im able to spam a ton before a pull, I can build up a 56k DA on most everyone. Right now in raid, we are running with two disc priests (myself and someones alt temporarily) and I was wondering if anyone knew if the two DAs stacked? Would we both be able to put up two DAs worth around 56k? Do their absorbs meld together? I dont recall ever seeing two separate DA buffs on myself. Or is there a set maximum so two disc priests will be gimped with DA as well as PWS?
Im just curious what the synergies are between two disc priests DAs.
Atonement was never really the issue but it got a lot of the blame because multiple spells show up with the flag "Atonement" and a number of people decided they didn't like having to pseudo-DPS as a filler to healing. Instead of rolling a different healer we ended up with a shower of complaints which resulted in one of the few mechanically different healers being turned into a two-button hero.They have to really do something about this. Either remove atonement completely or put it back, or make Archangel-build up feel less clunky now, and holy nova is annoying.
Atonement was easy though. Much like Holy Nova and PW:S will be. Filler heals are supposed to be easy and at least with Atonement there was some interest in a variable length Penance CD to maximise and ToF uptime to game.
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First mythic raiding and you get through to Klaxxi? Goodness.
Oh, sorry dear! My mistake! I thought you were inferring that you hadn't done heroic prior to 6.0! But yeah, Mythic is silly easy. We ended up zerging down siegecrafter with only myself healing in two attempts last week. 250+ wipes for nothing it seems. We haven't taken a look at the last two yet but I'm not expecting them to be difficult.
There's a reason the achievements got removed before 6.0, because they made mythic siege a joke. They do it every pre expansion patch. Guess its to let anyone who couldn't manage before see all of the end game content.
@Aimee Im assuming you've not done mythic paragons/garrosh at all (am i correct in this?) . You can just nuke down paragons in any order as long as you move from abilities still. Same with Garrosh, we just tanked the non empowered weapons on the raid and moved out for the empowered. You can nuke everything down almost instantly
lol, no. We were just raiding 10 man before 6.0 though and we weren't used to splitting up for fiery edges so we had a lot of deaths to kunchongs and insane calculations. Our mindset was also to blame since everything prior to Klaxxi had been a cakewalk and we thought we could zerg through Klaxxi with our 10 man tactics...
The fire lines actually do insane damage now. We lost all but one person to the one set of fire lines we let out because we really didn't think they'd do much damage. Nothing else did. We just killed Iyyokuk though, and then ressed one of the people and carried on.
Mate you seem to have a lot of things confused. After PoH was made to apply divine aegis automatically and with the tuning the way it was in cataclysm, disc acquired an important layer of complexity: Blanketing the raid with aegis. The complexity arose from the fact that aegis stacks on itself and refreshes the duration. Disc mostly cast one spell PoH, but the complexity came from having to micromanage a large number of short term CDs that clashed with each other in order to maintain a short duration absorb that was practically on the whole raid. In the first half of MoP, that complexity became extreme for three reasons,
a) rapture became critical for mana returns
b) spirit shell was added
c) You now had a total of 7 short duration CDs (less than 3 min): Holy fire, Penance, level 90, spirit shell, archangel, inner focus and power infusion NONE of which could be used on cooldown due to clashes and without a clear priority of what was best to use when.
After PoH was nerfed and aegis was changed, disc because an absolutely brain dead spec.
First of all PWS is not the equivalent of lifebloom, earth shield, sacred shield or beacon of light. These are all one target only abilities designed to go on the tank and effectively no one else. PWS can be up on multiple targets and it is used to heal the raid as much or more than it is used on the tank. It also provided borrowed time, a buff that when used properly added small but non-trivial thoughput boosts.
It is absolutely idiotic to say that the complexity came just from micro managing CDs and react to stuff. These are just part of being a good player and every player including all healers has to do it. The hard part with disc was that it required thinking 20-25s in the future at all times and had to decide on the fly things you really needed a calculator for. Absolutely no log I ever saw played it perfectly. Not a single one. I can say that I was extremely satisfied with my peformance and did better (in terms of pushing out HPS) in that period than I ever had before or since.
You say players can be pre-cog. Actually other classes can't but disc could, because you had a way to maintain a large absorb buffer ad infinitum and the way absorbs work with damage.: You don't need for a target to take cosntant damage like with a HoT. Even if he takes one hit just before the absorb expires you are fine. It was hard but very very possible to predict with high accuracy the best targets to build absorbs on. The problem comes when you realise that maintaining a large aegis stack produces constant clashes where you have to decide whether to let a stack somewhere expire in order to manage some CD, but there was no easy way of predicting whether doing so will net you more or less HPS without a calculator.
As I said before this was for pushing out the envelope, but in fact you could ignore a large chunk of this complexity and still be 5% off. Ultimately other things were more important for throughput.
As for your rules, I am sorry to say that far from being optimal they would probably cost you HPS most of the time.
YOu didn't have to decide between PWS or PoH, but whether borrowed time was a net gain so you could go for PWS-PoH 1:1 or whether PoH spam was better HPS. Also it was pointless to use ToF for most encounters. Spamming PWS was poitnless it was always better to add instants/penance first and then a cast into borrowed time. Yet another complexilty.
All in all disc was extremely complex and everyone just ignored a lot of the complexilty and simplify things, because it was simply impossible to get to maximum performance. You used one spell, PoH, for the vast majority of your healing, but getting max return from it ended up being fiendishly complicated. Many people including you obviously, never even realised this complexity was there, because other factors end up being more important for throughput
Last edited by mmoc58baca37e6; 2014-10-23 at 11:20 PM.
Cant we treat HN the same way we treated PoH previously?
I always spam HN before a fight to build up DA on as many people as possible (and obvisouly never stop spamming after that).
But this brings up another question I had earlier if anyone as any thoughts!
So considering the use of HN...its more for a DA pad right?
I LOVE the Holy Nova Radar addon, but I found that Im not really paying attention to the # of low health people, mostly just using it to position myself around the most number of people in order to spam HN to build up DA.
If Im able to spam a ton before a pull, I can build up a 56k DA on most everyone. Right now in raid, we are running with two disc priests (myself and someones alt temporarily) and I was wondering if anyone knew if the two DAs stacked? Would we both be able to put up two DAs worth around 56k? Do their absorbs meld together? I dont recall ever seeing two separate DA buffs on myself. Or is there a set maximum so two disc priests will be gimped with DA as well as PWS?
Im just curious what the synergies are between two disc priests DAs.
Aegis from different priest is counted as separate buffs, so they don't count towards the same cap. Each priest stacks DA to his own cap. However it is important to remember that the lowest absorb goes first. So it is possible for one priest to shut the other out if he has smaller absorbs on and the damage is shallow. In other words there is no synergy between DA from different priests, but there is also no real clash either.
HN spamming to build up aegis before the fight can work as long as you position yourself so that you hit fewer targets. Here is a calculation to show you what the chances are of aegis dropping off on someone repeatedly hit by HN
Chance for aegis to be refreshed after receiving a certain number of heals per 15s with 50% crit rate = (1-(1-crit)^n), where n is the number of heals per 15s
If you have 20 people in the raid and you are spamming HN with 50% crit rate then each person will receive on average ~3 heals per 15s, which gives you a 87.5% chance to refresh aegis every 15s. If you spam for about a minute you will lose 40% of your stacks. If you are hitting just 10 people however then you have a 97% chance of refreshing aegis per 15s, so you can build a lot of aegis on them.Code:No hits chance 1 0.5 2 0.75 3 0.875 4 0.9375 5 0.96875 6 0.984375 7 0.9921875 8 0.99609375 9 0.998046875 10 0.999023438 11 0.999511719
With 30% crit rate however things don't look so good:
If you are hovering around 30% crit rate, then you should try to position yourself so that you hit 6-7 people. Then you can reliably build aegis on them.Code:No hits chance 1 0.3 2 0.51 3 0.657 4 0.7599 5 0.83193 6 0.882351 7 0.9176457 8 0.94235199 9 0.959646393 10 0.971752475 11 0.980226733
HN serves a very different purpose to the old PoH. The old PoH was a moderate cost powerful heal, that you used pretty much for all aoe along with penance and your level 90. You now have two aoe spells a very cheap HN that does moderate healing and a very expensive PoH that provides 28% more throughput including 10% higher crit chance (for aegis stacking and overheal resistance).
When you have excess mana you spam PoH to burn it. When mana is limiting you use HN and PWS when possible and switch to PoH only for EAA and to deal with damage that would overwhelm HN/PWS. The old PoH as a workhorse that you use under all circumstances is now gone. The tools you use to deal with aoe damage now depend on the situation.
Bug?
Casting prayer of healing while targeting an enemy unit actually create the aoe healing effect around it instead of the players priest.? Is it intended or am I missing something here?
That sounds like a bug. When targeting an enemy unit, my PoH is going off around my character.
I bet it's a bug with one of those new "help those in the same faction" mechanics to help lazy solo questing. You know. When atonement works on anyone and you get credit for the same tagged kill.