Pet-only kills and no exp / rep / loot.

[Supersoaker]

Hello fellow hunters,

I've started a thread on "WoD Beta Classes" on blizzard forums about a mechanism that has existed since vanilla, where creatures completely damaged and killed by the hunters pet will not reward exp / rep / loot. I'm sure you're all aware of its existence.

I won't go into detail here, as I've done that on my post in the forums (maybe a little to much).

The reason I've posted it here is that if you feel that you agree with my argument (specifically around Kill Command being counted as hunter damage), then please show your support.

Also, if you can think of any alternative solutions or a good reason why this idea should not be pursued at all, then please discuss it here or on the blizzard forums.

Thank you for reading.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14526053047

[Arcanimus]

Hello fellow hunters,

I've started a thread on "WoD Beta Classes" on blizzard forums about a mechanism that has existed since vanilla, where creatures completely damaged and killed by the hunters pet will not reward exp / rep / loot. I'm sure you're all aware of its existence.

I won't go into detail here, as I've done that on my post in the forums (maybe a little to much).

The reason I've posted it here is that if you feel that you agree with my argument (specifically around Kill Command being counted as hunter damage), then please show your support.

Also, if you can think of any alternative solutions or a good reason why this idea should not be pursued at all, then please discuss it here or on the blizzard forums.

Thank you for reading.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14526053047

Because bots, afk farmers, and exploiters.

Also, Kill Command should NOT count as hunter damage, because it'd lose the bonus damage and crit chance from Ferocity, etc.

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.

[Supersoaker]

Because bots, afk farmers, and exploiters.

Also, Kill Command should NOT count as hunter damage, because it'd lose the bonus damage and crit chance from Ferocity, etc.

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.

This response does not deserve a reply, except to say that you clearly did not follow the link.

[Raelbo]

Because bots, afk farmers, and exploiters.

Also, Kill Command should NOT count as hunter damage, because it'd lose the bonus damage and crit chance from Ferocity, etc.

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.

Did you even bother to read the forum post he linked? I thought it was well thought out and well balanced. He acknowledges the reason why pure pet kills are not counted for loot/xp/rep, and proposes a solution that makes sense.

I think the best way to describe your response is: irony.

edit: PS: I agree with the OP 100%

[Arcanimus]

This response does not deserve a reply, except to say that you clearly did not follow the link.

All situations you listed in your thread caused the death of the mob without loot due to your own lack of knowledge. If the mob may not survive a Kill Command from full health, dont use it and use Arcane Shot first instead. Your own post even stated that it's a change of playstyle. You SHOULD change your playstyle when playing solo and when playing in a group.


Not saying the mechanic isn't outdated, but its been in the game since the beginning, and you should not expect it to change just because you can't manage to press button 2 instead of 1.

[Deleted]

Fully agree here, its ridiculous and stupid that your pet can steal the exp/rep by killing the mob.

I thought you and your pet were supposed to be a team, yet they have hardcoded so your pet can ninja from you.

Have they released any statements on why this bug havent been fixed?

[Papasmokes]

Hello fellow hunters,

I've started a thread on "WoD Beta Classes" on blizzard forums about a mechanism that has existed since vanilla, where creatures completely damaged and killed by the hunters pet will not reward exp / rep / loot. I'm sure you're all aware of its existence.

I won't go into detail here, as I've done that on my post in the forums (maybe a little to much).

The reason I've posted it here is that if you feel that you agree with my argument (specifically around Kill Command being counted as hunter damage), then please show your support.

Also, if you can think of any alternative solutions or a good reason why this idea should not be pursued at all, then please discuss it here or on the blizzard forums.

Thank you for reading.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14526053047

I get where you're coming from, but KC counting as Hunter damage would be a huge nerf in its damage and is therefore a bad idea (as Arcanimus stated earlier). It seemed your main complaint was that KC hits so hard that you're one-shotting mobs and not getting experience or reputation.

You're basically asking Blizzard to redesign pet damage as a whole, when the simplest solution to this problem is opening with an Arcane Shot if you're fighting a mob that you think is so weak it will die with one KC. Seems kind of pointless to me.

[Paulosio]

Because bots, afk farmers, and exploiters.

Also, Kill Command should NOT count as hunter damage, because it'd lose the bonus damage and crit chance from Ferocity, etc.

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.

I don't think you understood what he meant by kill command "counting as hunter damage"...

He simply means that stuff being 1 shotted by kill command should still drop loot / rep / xp for the player.

Kill command is still an ability "cast" by the player so it certainly doesn't help against botters and afker as you claimed. If a player is AFK the pet wont kill command. Explain how this affects someones ability to bot.

The argument about it losing it's bonus damage etc from Ferocity is totally false. Blizzard could tune the damage however they wanted regardless of how they categorised the spell.

Having kill command work as it does is detrimental to players and makes no sense at all.

It's not a big enough issue for me to be particularly worried about.. If something has so little hp that it gets 1 shotted it's easy enough to just multishot or arcane shot instead. I do agree it's silly though.

[destia]

QFT from official forums : "At the very least, Kill Command should be considered player interaction for loot purposes. Leading with the signature is "good practice," so it shouldn't cost a player loot if a string of crits happen before an autoshot or other non-pet attack."

[Supersoaker]

All situations you listed in your thread caused the death of the mob without loot due to your own lack of knowledge. If the mob may not survive a Kill Command from full health, dont use it and use Arcane Shot first instead. Your own post even stated that it's a change of playstyle. You SHOULD change your playstyle when playing solo and when playing in a group.

Not saying the mechanic isn't outdated, but its been in the game since the beginning, and you should not expect it to change just because you can't manage to press button 2 instead of 1.

I feel that you are maintaining an opposing standpoint, because you began with an opposing standpoint, and don't feel obliged to eat humble pie.

You should eat that pie.

[Calfredd]

Fully agree here, its ridiculous and stupid that your pet can steal the exp/rep by killing the mob.

I thought you and your pet were supposed to be a team, yet they have hardcoded so your pet can ninja from you.

Have they released any statements on why this bug havent been fixed?

It's not a bug and also how else are your pets suppose to gear up for raiding?

[Arcanimus]

The argument about it losing it's bonus damage etc from Ferocity is totally false. Blizzard could tune the damage however they wanted regardless of how they categorised the spell.

This is Blizzard we're talking about here: The guys with an irrational vendetta against us, who still want to collect our money hand over fist.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel that you are maintaining an opposing standpoint, because you began with an opposing standpoint, and don't feel obliged to eat humble pie.

You should eat that pie.

I have yet to see a good reason for such a long standing mechanic to change. Laziness or finger cramping isn't a good reason.

[Supersoaker]

To those pointing to the "it would be a nerf" argument, the change could be as simple "tagging" the ability to allow for loot / or as hunter damage, while still maintaining all benefits from pet abilities like Ferocity.

No DPS loss, just good times.

The difference is literately how you write the code.

Lower the pitchfork Arcanimus. Its a small QoL improvement that could be easily implemented with a little bit of clever thinking.

[Killua Zoldyck]

I find it annoying, I just fail to find a scenario where you can't just dismiss your pet and 1shot with some other means? Unless you want to be instant KOing the weaker mobs in MoP with KC, which is entirely irrelevant with WoD on the horizon.

It'd be nice to happen but Blizzard have bigger fish to fry with class adjustments.

[eschatological]

Except you could script a program to press Kill Command every 10s, and a BM hunter could script its way to afk loot/xp farming.

Any time a pet can solo a mob without any damage coming from the player = a problem. Disallowing the XP/loot was the only way to stem that problem.

Even easier solution: Lead off with AS. If you're in range for KC/Blink Strikes, you're in range for AS. Not facing the right way? Why should you be rewarded for that? You had to target the mob, presumably you can turn your character. It may not be "best practice" but since when has best practice ever been necessary or even good for questing? Best practice as a mage involves casting your bomb spells, but I sure as hell don't use it while leveling. Best practice for rogues involves putting up SnD and Rupture, do you do that for every mob? There's a whole litany of things which are best practice which don't apply to leveling at all.

[Azortharion]

Serpent Sting ALL the motherfuckers.

[Supersoaker]

Except you could script a program to press Kill Command every 10s, and a BM hunter could script its way to afk loot/xp farming.

Any time a pet can solo a mob without any damage coming from the player = a problem. Disallowing the XP/loot was the only way to stem that problem.

Even easier solution: Lead off with AS. If you're in range for KC/Blink Strikes, you're in range for AS. Not facing the right way? Why should you be rewarded for that? You had to target the mob, presumably you can turn your character. It may not be "best practice" but since when has best practice ever been necessary or even good for questing? Best practice as a mage involves casting your bomb spells, but I sure as hell don't use it while leveling. Best practice for rogues involves putting up SnD and Rupture, do you do that for every mob? There's a whole litany of things which are best practice which don't apply to leveling at all.

You're entering the realm of botting, which can be done for any class. Script frostbolt to be pressed every 10s for example, and blast everything that enters your view.

Not an easier solution, that's a compromise.

- - - Updated - - -

Serpent Sting ALL the motherfuckers.

Of all hunters, I'm sure you're aware that is no longer possible in WoD

[Voltarus]

IIRC Hunters have no way to instantly deal damage yet - everything has a travel time, right? I think even A Murder of Crows has a small delay before it does any damage.
Kill Command paired with blink strikes could fill this role for hunters.

This is especially useful when camping rares, like Poseidus. Classes with instant damage spells without travel time got a huge advantage currently compared to Hunters.

[eschatological]

You're entering the realm of botting, which can be done for any class. Script frostbolt to be pressed every 10s for example, and blast everything that enters your view.

Not an easier solution, that's a compromise.

- - - Updated - - -



Of all hunters, I'm sure you're aware that is no longer possible in WoD

Except when you Frostbolt something, the mob attacks you, when you KC something, it attacks your pet. Your pet can easily solo most things hitting it in the face because of natural armor and damage reductions, especially AoE and Spirit Bond/Animal Bond. Those molten elementals on the bridge before Cinderfall on Timeless Isle? My pet could just stand in their only attack all day. I doubt a mage could stand there spamming frostbolts and live for very long. Using just pet melee + KC on CD, a pet can easily solo things.

[Louisa Bannon]

This is a great study in why discussing anything with idiots on the internet is just a bad idea. Arcanimus, I give you a golf clap in studied obtuseness.

I don't think what is being asked for here is the ability to afk while the pet does damage.

When a player initiates an action, it should count as a player interaction. If a hunter player presses a key and that action is "Kill Command" then it should count as a player kill for the purposes of loot, reward, rep gain, etc. The mere fact that a pet is technically carrying out the command does not alter the fact that it is an action initiated by a player and not by an AI while the hunter is actually afk or what have you.

Yes, a work around solution in old content settings is to simply put one's pet away and one-shot everything in sight. Yeah, it works. On the other hand, a hunter's pet is supposed to be the tank and keep heat off of the hunter. If current action tuning is pumping damage into Kill Command and off other hunter actions that take lower priority its going to be a problem longer term as it scales.

When a player actually presses a button to make something happen it should still count as the player's action. In what way is that controversial?

I suppose fixing this nonsense will cost us a raid tier. Is that what has you worried?

To digress slightly, I find it very annoying that when anyone points out some flaw in the game that is actually strange and in need of repair there is always some bright spot that is only too eager to jump in and insist that it is "fine as it is." Usually, it's not fine. But thanks for setting the bar so low that Blizzard development can effectively allow flaws to exist in-game literally for years before anything is done. It's not even player apathy, you actually want class mechanics to not be fixed. My best guess is that you don't play the class under discussion and don't have a problem having advantages over a class that has historically had endless mechanical issues that have gone unanswered.

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A very short cut and paste from icy-veins on the current single target hunter priority/rotation (just the first two action):
1. Apply Hunter's Mark on the target.
2. Cast Kill Command on cooldown (edit: it is implied that the pet is on the target probably from a Hunter's Mark macro)

In other words, you are SUPPOSED to send the pet in and apply Kill Command before you do any other thing. In WoD I understand that there is no Hunter's Mark, so I guess Kill Command is the first thing a hunter does when following a "correct" DPS priority/rotation.

By way of confirmation, Wowhead shows the following opener for BM Hunters in WoD:
1. Cast Kill Command on cooldown
2. Cast Kill Shot (only available below 20% health)

Just sayin'...

Don't we want players following the correct rotation?