Combat in the prepatch...a problem for many rogues?

[Kael]

Subtlety shows a very significant boost on my Shadowcraft profile, over that of Combat. Admittedly its only assassination that may needed some catching up to do this tier. But I wouldn't agree if you'd say Subtlety has not enjoyed very iconic single target dps this tier. And imo, it should be higher then Assassination, because of its positional requirements and engaging mechanics.

Subtlety has not enjoyed very iconic single target dps this tier. Please don't make people start linking logs, you can check them yourself. Shadowcraft, and this is mentioned a lot on the rogue forums, is not a sim or intended for cross-spec comparisons, but a way to compare different profiles (gear, talents, glyphs) for a single spec. It is not an accurate representation of DPS.

[Deleted]

No no, Combat is ahead single target. In simulation and practise, it's not a social issue. Even if that wasn't the case, Blade Flurry is so good that it makes playing the other specs now and and in WoD difficult to justify, which was my gripe.

Its ahead on single target currently, but we will see how WoD develops. Don't forget that combat is hit significantly harder by the SB removal, and the loss of our now beloved CDR (that AoC is SUCH A GORGEOUS TRINKET btw ).

Even IF there are alot of cleave fights, I could well play Assa if it provides more powerful single target dps. I don't need to top the meter with cleave, if I can contribute the most to the target that actually matters.

[Feali]

Its ahead on single target currently, but we will see how WoD develops. Don't forget that combat is hit significantly harder by the SB removal, and the loss of our now beloved CDR (that AoC is SUCH A GORGEOUS TRINKET btw ).

Even IF there are alot of cleave fights, I could well play Assa if it provides more powerful single target dps. I don't need to top the meter with cleave, if I can contribute the most to the target that actually matters.

Well it's actually back to 54%. It's just not working. It's exciting to see what will happen next.

[pkm]

Combat going strong again eh?

How will it be though without AoC ?

[Sesshou]

Subtlety has not enjoyed very iconic single target dps this tier. Please don't make people start linking logs, you can check them yourself. Shadowcraft, and this is mentioned a lot on the rogue forums, is not a sim or intended for cross-spec comparisons, but a way to compare different profiles (gear, talents, glyphs) for a single spec. It is not an accurate representation of DPS.

Wait, what? Iron jugs is single target tank and spank with 100% uptime and no reason positional requirements should get in your way. Unless maybe I'm misinterpreting what you meant by that first sentence.

I've put my money on 8th of October .

They didn't announce the end of the pvp season yet which they do 2 weeks before it ends.

[Feali]

They didn't announce the end of the pvp season yet which they do 2 weeks before it ends.

Look at the front page.

[Sesshou]

Look at the front page.

Yeah, just saw that and was coming back to edit my post but oh well. Still 2 weeks minimum which puts it past the 8th.

[Kael]

Wait, what? Iron jugs is single target tank and spank with 100% uptime and no reason positional requirements should get in your way. Unless maybe I'm misinterpreting what you meant by that first sentence.

You are. "Iconic single target DPS" would indicate that it's at the top of the charts by a (relatively) wide margin on single target. Which, as we know, it isn't have right now.

[ugotganked]

Subtlety has not enjoyed very iconic single target dps this tier. Please don't make people start linking logs, you can check them yourself. Shadowcraft, and this is mentioned a lot on the rogue forums, is not a sim or intended for cross-spec comparisons, but a way to compare different profiles (gear, talents, glyphs) for a single spec. It is not an accurate representation of DPS.

I don't understand this. Shadowcraft has me at around 320k for sub and im at about 305-310k in raids. It has combat at around 280 and thats about where i'm at when I try combat. How is it not an accurate rep of DPS?

[Artorius]

I don't understand this. Shadowcraft has me at around 320k for sub and im at about 305-310k in raids. It has combat at around 280 and thats about where i'm at when I try combat. How is it not an accurate rep of DPS?

You're doing less than what your gear can supposedly do... ShadowCraft is a complex spreadsheet for gear comparison, it's accurate at telling you how to reforge/gem/enchant and which piece is better.

If you want to see a more accurate DPS prediction, use Simulationcraft (which isn't 100% accurate either, but is worlds ahead of anything else).

[rogueMatthias]

I really feel Blade Flurry should be all specs now. I know it's meant to be one of Combats defining moves but there needs to be more of a reasons than that for it to stay Combat only.

The problem is, it fits its intended function so well, and the other specs have so little alternative, that what spec I play literally comes down to the number of mobs in the encounter. I know specs are meant to fit different roles, but this is a bit dumb.

That said, this is my biggest issue with Rogue final tier talents too. It's not so much that each talent adds a new skill to the Rogue, it's more that each of the 3 addresses an individual serious issue with Rogues that we shouldn't have in the first place. It's like choosing which one of arms, legs or eyes you need for a specific encounter.

[Feali]

I really feel Blade Flurry should be all specs now. I know it's meant to be one of Combats defining moves but there needs to be more of a reasons than that for it to stay Combat only.

Like Backstab staying the way it is?

But seriously: Blade Flurry is the single fucking reason why I stay combat. It's just that good. There is nothing attractive about Combat but Blade Flurry.

[Gurg]

Transfered my al rogue in combination of 10N and 10HC gear. so far had no issues, it feels really slowed down, but hitting harder and Blade Flurry still owns in dungeons.
Moved to lvl100 realms, PvE set bonus for combat is simply far superior than for other two specs and best part is.. it can proc of it self, i managed to count 4chained procs when i was paying attention.

Ill probably go Combat, since its slowed down it feels more like melee class with stealth as QoL. Rogue legacy solo potential went up too, i managed to solo pretty much everything up to MoP without issues, which i had when i tried to solo with DW Frost or Fury, exceptions are fights that require more players due to mechanics, like Hagara, Deathwing fight.

[Ryme]

So I just ran a T16H raid against a T16 boss profile... Clearly some things are broken, but here's what I got out.

http://www.uploadhosting.co/uploads/...H-results.html

[Artorius]

So I just ran a T16H raid against a T16 boss profile... Clearly some things are broken, but here's what I got out.

http://www.uploadhosting.co/uploads/...H-results.html

I'm getting ~17,5k as sub using my 585 combat gear with wrong priorities (haste>mastery>crit)...

[Feali]

So I just ran a T16H raid against a T16 boss profile... Clearly some things are broken, but here's what I got out.

http://www.uploadhosting.co/uploads/...H-results.html

Items only upgraded 2 times while Elemental items are upgraded 4 times.
Sub still using Shadow Focus (?)
And why is Assassination using Shamans trinket instead of Blackfuse?

[Sesshou]

I really feel Blade Flurry should be all specs now. I know it's meant to be one of Combats defining moves but there needs to be more of a reasons than that for it to stay Combat only.

The problem is, it fits its intended function so well, and the other specs have so little alternative, that what spec I play literally comes down to the number of mobs in the encounter. I know specs are meant to fit different roles, but this is a bit dumb.

That said, this is my biggest issue with Rogue final tier talents too. It's not so much that each talent adds a new skill to the Rogue, it's more that each of the 3 addresses an individual serious issue with Rogues that we shouldn't have in the first place. It's like choosing which one of arms, legs or eyes you need for a specific encounter.

They could just buff the other AE until its on par and then for something that is just 2 or 3 targets make multi dotting better for ass/sub. I mean feral AE is pretty good this tier and they don't have BF.

And did you mean current final tier talents or WoD final tier talents? I'm hoping current because WoD talents are more like picking the least stinky piece of crap.

[Ryme]

Items only upgraded 2 times while Elemental items are upgraded 4 times.
Sub still using Shadow Focus (?)
And why is Assassination using Shamans trinket instead of Blackfuse?

I didn't check anything, I just ran the generate T16 simc profile under T16 conditions.

[Deleted]

Items only upgraded 2 times while Elemental items are upgraded 4 times.
Sub still using Shadow Focus (?)
And why is Assassination using Shamans trinket instead of Blackfuse?

You mean AoC instead of Blackfuse?

[Feali]

Do we gem Agility with 6.0 as Combat? It will probably be cheaper now then when the patch hits.

- - - Updated - - -

You mean AoC instead of Blackfuse?

AoC is probably working correctly in this calculation.