[TV] Who was the best Star Trek villain? (Not races, only characters)

[Tradewind]

Q was and always will be the best villain even if its not really a hero or a villain Q was and is the best thing to fuck with the people.

I'm not sure if its the fault of the writers, but I never saw Q as a villain. Maybe early on, but after that his curiosity and much later his absolute slapstick worthy incompetence really ruined the villain vibe.

[icausewipes]

Only reason I left Q out was because he was only a "villain" in maybe his first two appearances. After that, he was a nuisance and even an ally.

Fair enough

I would vote for Sybok, but he only made one appearance iirc.

Borg queen

[Teroseth]

I went for Lore (though I would argue the case for Q being a villain, or at least an antagonist, even if a helpful one). That said, I'm only really familiar with TOS and TNG, I've watched the other series but not in any particular depth, so it's perhaps a biased vote. I like Lore though more for what he represents, than the actual character. He's the human Data, the one who is self serving, emotional, Data want's to be human but does he want to be that kind of human? Would he perhaps have become that kind of human if there was no Lore, it's an interesting (at least to me) argument/possibility.

[ciggy]

Q, Gul Dukat, Borg Queen, then probably Khan. In that order.

Q was a villain insomuch as you never really KNEW what he was up too.

[Serenais]

As much as I like Wrath of Khan and Star Trek Into Darkness, I'm going to say Gul Dukat. That man has everything one could want in a villain. Backstory, motivation, character developement, depth, not being all out "black" (to the hero's "white", as is ironic in this case), descent into madness and an actual good chance to win. The others lack in at least one departement, if not many (The Borg Queen is "just there", being evil, there is no developement and she is fully, completely irredeemable; Duras is just immaterial and corrupt the whole time, same goes for Lore; the only one who got close was Khan, but he lacks in significant screentime and thus in character developement).

[Skizzit]

Dukat hands down. The back and forth between him and Sisko has just fantastic.

I'm not sure if its the fault of the writers, but I never saw Q as a villain. Maybe early on, but after that his curiosity and much later his absolute slapstick worthy incompetence really ruined the villain vibe.

Same, I always say Q as almost a force of nature more then a villain. He just blows through to fuck shit up for awhile and then leaves. There is never any malicious intent in his actions. Hell, half the time he is even just trying to teach Picard something or going to Janeway for help.

[Ermelloth]

Voted Dukat. The best in his character was that he wasn't one-dimensional at all. He wasn't absolutely evil and at times could be characterized as true neutral (using D&D3 classification) before the ultimate downfall of his moral values. He underwent a lot of changes throughout the show.

I wonder why people list Q among the villains. He wasn't a villain after all.

[Deleted]

Dukat,
But what happened to ?

Winn Adami (TNG)
Seska (Voy)
Sela (TNG)

[Puri]

From the list I agree with Gul'Dukat, since he is the only one who really had screen time and character development. Khan would be a sidenote on memory alpha if they did not put him into STII, Lore has no development and simply is as he is. Same for Duras. And the borg queen was the worst idea they ever had, when the Borg were introduced in TNG they were a dangerous enemy because the Borg worked without hierachy, just as a collective. There was no head you could simply cut off - and this is what they changed, giving the evil a face they can kill to finish the story line.

But don't many things said about Q in the thread also apply to Dukat? Was he really evil to qualify as villain? He sure was an antagonist, but the things he did were just means to help his agenda. Besides many bad things he did (from the show's point of view) there were also good things. Actually you could call him religiously fanatic - but since we know his prophets really exist he was just pressing the agenda he thought would be best. A "culture clash", not so different from B5 Shadows/Vorlons. But we don't even know what the Pah-wraiths or the wormhole-prophets really wanted, so we cannot even say who was evil, only which side's means seem bad to us. Perhaps we even watched the wrong side "win" at the end.

So yes, I think Dukat is the most interesting character from your list and a great antagonist, but I don't think I can agree that everything he's done qualifies him as "evilish" villain.

[ciggy]

Voted Dukat. The best in his character was that he wasn't one-dimensional at all. He wasn't absolutely evil and at times could be characterized as true neutral (using D&D3 classification) before the ultimate downfall of his moral values. He underwent a lot of changes throughout the show.

I wonder why people list Q among the villains. He wasn't a villain after all.

True neutral Dukat.. but you say Q isn't a villain.. He wasn't, but he was.. The first episode of TNG.. he put picard on trial for the crimes of the human race.. I can't see a bigger bad guy.. Tapestry he helped Picard remove the doubts he had been carrying for years.. I can't see a bigger good guy.. I can't remember the book I read about him, I think Q squared.. he was an utter douche..

[Zethras]

True neutral Dukat.. but you say Q isn't a villain.. He wasn't, but he was.. The first episode of TNG.. he put picard on trial for the crimes of the human race.. I can't see a bigger bad guy.. Tapestry he helped Picard remove the doubts he had been carrying for years.. I can't see a bigger good guy.. I can't remember the book I read about him, I think Q squared.. he was an utter douche..

Q is an interesting character, in one of the early TNG episodes he make a reference to "where humans are eons from now". This suggests to me that Q was either chosen by the Q Continuum, or volunteered personally, to lead humanity down the... let's call it the "Path to Q-hood".

[poser765]

True neutral Dukat.. but you say Q isn't a villain.. He wasn't, but he was.. The first episode of TNG.. he put picard on trial for the crimes of the human race.. I can't see a bigger bad guy.. Tapestry he helped Picard remove the doubts he had been carrying for years.. I can't see a bigger good guy.. I can't remember the book I read about him, I think Q squared.. he was an utter douche..

Sure he kind of had issues with humanity, but he never really had any issues with the enterprise or it's crew on a personal level. In fact I would argue that he got a sort of joy from sparring with them from time to time. I just can't see how Q could be seen as a villian. Ok maybe a duche on occasion but certainly not a villain.

Dukat, is too grey to be a good villain.

Duras? Meh...

That leaves Khan. Khan is perfect. He is the cliche villain. He is evil for the sake of it, and the grudge he caries towards Kirk, the Enterprise, and her crew is just like perfect antagonist. From when they first thawed him out on the Botany Bay his intentions were pretty much always take over and fuck shit up, because that's just what he does. He is a taker over and fucker upper.

NOTE. This is the real Khan, no alternate timeline crap. I have a real hard time accepting the last two movies as cannon. People may tell me they are, but I just can't and won't buy it. In my mind, they just don't even exist as Trek.

[Skizzit]

Sure he kind of had issues with humanity, but he never really had any issues with the enterprise or it's crew on a personal level. In fact I would argue that he got a sort of joy from sparring with them from time to time. I just can't see how Q could be seen as a villian. Ok maybe a duche on occasion but certainly not a villain.

Dukat, is too grey to be a good villain.

Duras? Meh...

That leaves Khan. Khan is perfect. He is the cliche villain. He is evil for the sake of it, and the grudge he caries towards Kirk, the Enterprise, and her crew is just like perfect antagonist. From when they first thawed him out on the Botany Bay his intentions were pretty much always take over and fuck shit up, because that's just what he does. He is a taker over and fucker upper.

NOTE. This is the real Khan, no alternate timeline crap. I have a real hard time accepting the last two movies as cannon. People may tell me they are, but I just can't and won't buy it. In my mind, they just don't even exist as Trek.

I dunno, imo the best villain are the ones that live in the grey. Characters like Magneto from X-men is a great example. He isn't evil, he just has a different viewpoint then Xavier. That's way more interesting then a cliche, evil just to be evil kind of villain like Khan.