[6.2] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Deleted]

This is an incredibly archaic way of approaching game balance; the game hasn't been like that since Burning Crusade and it will never be like that again. You don't recruit a druid because you want him to play all 4 specs. Fact is the 'pure' classes bring plenty of utility and played crucial roles on many end bosses of the expansion (ring of frost, gates, traps, etc.)

well that would only be a valid point if it wasnt for the fact that its going to be a lot easier for the clases to play different roles in WoD from what ive read and if you look at WoD lock utility is pretty damn worthless too, so it stand to reason that the only thing that can truly justify bring a long to a raid is superior dps not inferior dps. the term pure dps class is an archaic term when you look at the age of the game but it is still a valid one coz there are still 4 classes that can only provide dps, makes sense that they would be better at it than others imo.

[itsyaboy]

getting beat by rogues/hunters/enh/fire/arms single target as demo now while doing heroic garrosh sales. went from averaging 5.6mil damage a kill to 4.9. Middle of the pack pure dps class with no utility = $$$$

[Leyl]

Yeah, basically, demo is kind terrible now. The numbers difference from last week and this week are astounding, a nerf was needed but I think this was heavy handed. Switching out of it for now until Blizzard comes to their senses.

[Harring10]

This is an incredibly archaic way of approaching game balance; the game hasn't been like that since Burning Crusade and it will never be like that again. You don't recruit a druid because you want him to play all 4 specs. Fact is the 'pure' classes bring plenty of utility and played crucial roles on many end bosses of the expansion (ring of frost, gates, traps, etc.)

Archaic maybe - but when progression time comes, and you're 3 mill short of killing the boss, let's see who get sat. If it were a raid team I wanted to be on, it would be the low dps - who did NOT have unique utility.

Perhaps you play with an enlightened team that is more patient about killing bosses :-)

[Akiraqt]

So... the short tl:dr version is this:

Typical Blizzard Developer (Significant Other is likely a hunter) couldnt' stand the non-stop bitching so implements the easy solution: pick an arbitrary and capricious number - say 20% - and apply nerf bat.

Unique utility has already been removed... (cause you know a class that can tank, dps or heal isn't any more useful to a raid than a warlock who only brings sub-par damage, this is what Blizzard is telling us).

Don't fix the already broken nerfs to AFF.

And that leaves us with Destro.

Course we can speculate, hope and debate whether Blizzard will fix what they've broken before lvl 100 - but in the meantime, all this useless drivel doesn't change anyone's sims or perception that Demo is at best close to Aff - which we all know is CRAP.

Let's have a meaningful debate - what class should we be rerolling so we can hope to have a raid spot?

Also, who can give us the Blizzard Developers personal home emails so we can kindly and personally tank them for obviating a class many of us loved playing.

Well the question is are you talking about 90 balance or 100 balance? Affliction at 90 is fine right now, I can't say that my position on that will remain at 100. Also note: blizzard will be rolling out several tuning changes before Nov 13 so don't get too down yet about class balance.

[Harring10]

Well the question is are you talking about 90 balance or 100 balance? Affliction at 90 is fine right now, I can't say that my position on that will remain at 100. Also note: blizzard will be rolling out several tuning changes before Nov 13 so don't get too down yet about class balance.

Can't tell you how much I hope that's what happens. Again, to be redundant, topping the meters is great and all that - but more important to me is having the spec be viable. Be nice not to raid destro/aff for another tier!!

[Zevoa]

Post-nerf felt okay-ish, but only due tokill times being <=2min.

[Werst]

In all the years I have played a lock (pretty much since the beginning) through a lot of headaches along the way but this latest demo nerf was the most heavy handed yet. I kind of think they took the numbers a world class demo lock like Zinn would put and balanced demo around that while mr joe LFR warrior does the same with 3 buttons and mashing whatever lights up with 50+ less ilvl. Demo is probably the most rewarding spec to play, certainly after 6.0 it is, but we get beat down to a point where we have to exploit a trinket, fight mechanic, etc to justify our spot. Demo has some nice cleave built in but in no way is where it needs to be. The spec truly cannot stand on its own. I don't want a UVLS or some broken set bonus, just an enjoyable spec back to good. Warriors are argueably the most "out there" and they took approx half the nerfing demo did. I know blizz isn't that out of touch it can't see the gap between a dps warrior and a demo lock especially post nerf. Its not even good for pvp this meekly tuned.

[Santoisms]

Any ETA on the Soul Fire hotfix?

[Zevoa]

Any ETA on the Soul Fire hotfix?

What hotfix?

[evertonbelmontt]

What hotfix?

He's asking if it was fixed. I can confirm that it was not, for US servers as of right now.

[Werst]

I think the soulfire "hotfix" will not happen until 100 and that is what Cel means by "retuning at 100" lol. It actually might be funny if it weren't almost true. If demo is OP they will yank the server connect out of the wall to nerf but take entire tiers to even consider fixing. For all those who play the "but in MoP locks were good" how about how we weren't so good in cata or wotlk and only came into OP territory during T6 BC. So we have had maybe T6, T16, T15 as a top dps....so 3x tiers out of 17 soon. We are set to launch in the lamest position yet...in pvp/pve, damage, utility, etc. Demo also needs to be balanced around an average player, not a US top 20'ish pro. The gap in aff or dest may not be as large but demo its huge if you don't stack HoG or just willy nilly soulfire (not during procs/meta theoretically when its fixed). It has the most depth and complexity so it should reward slightly for good play. Who REALLY was that butthurt that demo was doing well in 6.0? 4x raid lockouts max when everything is over, no rated pvp possible, and they are clearly short on time for the amount of stuff needing to be done but no...more important to gut demo asap.

[Deleted]

honestly, the only thing that matters atm is lvl 100 dps why they would make a tuning for lvl 90 is beyond me, i know cel said they would retune at lvl 100 but ill believe it when i see it, maybe im just a pesimist but i cant say the devs have given me a reason to believe them. at the very least it shouldnt go in at lvl 100 but rather when WoD launches, so ppl can lvl with whatever spec they want without feeling gimped for taking a spec like demo

[Jessicka]

honestly, the only thing that matters atm is lvl 100 dps why they would make a tuning for lvl 90 is beyond me, i know cel said they would retune at lvl 100 but ill believe it when i see it, maybe im just a pesimist but i cant say the devs have given me a reason to believe them. at the very least it shouldnt go in at lvl 100 but rather when WoD launches, so ppl can lvl with whatever spec they want without feeling gimped for taking a spec like demo

Clearly at 90 while we had 30-40% DPS gap between top and bottom, there were a lot more 'gimped' specs that weren't worth taking, even though the content is utterly faceroll. Even if you didn't bench all your hunters or Shadow Priests, there was literally nothing fun for anyone about being carried as one.

There's nothing even to suggest Demo would be gimped at 100, even the notorious unreliable simcraft stack ranks put it ahead of Fire, Shadow and Balance. And again, this is just the first stage of rough tuning, there are plenty more tweeks to come over the coming weeks which will apply to all classes and therefore see others move downward, even if Demo isn't pushed upward.

I'll be honest, I'm more worried my Shadow Priest is going to suck all expansion again than I am my Warlocks.

[Santoisms]

I did okay last night on our short raid night, I was 2nd on every fight but 1 or so, I couldn't touch our WW though, he was destroying.

Accelerate US-Tichondrius Logs 10/21/14

[Rayaleith]

I did okay last night on our short raid night, I was 2nd on every fight but 1 or so, I couldn't touch our WW though, he was destroying.

Accelerate US-Tichondrius Logs 10/21/14

You played with SF in Meta, right?

[andromalia]

even the notorious unreliable simcraft stack ranks

I used to have a lot of respect for your posts, but taking cheap shots is getting old. I don't develop simcraft nor do I gain any benefit by defending them, but what I will say is that 99% of people that use the patchwerk simcraft for t16 and then laugh about fights like fallen protectors have no idea what they are talking about. With the correct APL, you could have simmed LOLSWAP and you could have simmed havoc burning on small adds on sha or garrosh or <insert boss here>. The patchwerk sim is one tool of many. So instead of complaining about how unreliable sims are, how about complaining about how unreliable the people that run the sims are (or those that use the patchwerk sim as the penultimate example of where dps classes sit).
/rant

After playing demonology last night for a couple of bosses, I can safely say I won't touch it again until 100, and that's only assuming they get the numbers right.

[Zevoa]

After playing demonology last night for a couple of bosses, I can safely say I won't touch it again until 100, and that's only assuming they get the numbers right.

Sounds like you aren't playing optimally because it's by no means that weak even with the most recent nerfs.

[andromalia]

Sounds like you aren't playing optimally because it's by no means that weak even with the most recent nerfs.

I'm not saying it's weak overall. It's weak comparatively to the other specs. I actually think once the meta bug is fixed it might be a bit more viable since a lot of our damage *should* be coming from meta SF but isn't right now.

[Jessicka]

I used to have a lot of respect for your posts, but taking cheap shots is getting old. I don't develop simcraft nor do I gain any benefit by defending them, but what I will say is that 99% of people that use the patchwerk simcraft for t16 and then laugh about fights like fallen protectors have no idea what they are talking about. With the correct APL, you could have simmed LOLSWAP and you could have simmed havoc burning on small adds on sha or garrosh or <insert boss here>. The patchwerk sim is one tool of many. So instead of complaining about how unreliable sims are, how about complaining about how unreliable the people that run the sims are (or those that use the patchwerk sim as the penultimate example of where dps classes sit).
/rant

After playing demonology last night for a couple of bosses, I can safely say I won't touch it again until 100, and that's only assuming they get the numbers right.

I was specifically picking out the stack ranks, which are Patchwerk, and are notoriously unreliable, and are being used as a source to gauge how well the spec is performing. I am targetting exactly who you're saying I should be targetting. :|

My complaints about simcraft's APL in other threads with regard to Cataclysm and Servitude's APL, I've explained fully over the past few days, and it's still randomly activating and immediately cancelling Meta, still wasting MC charges in Caster form, and still pissing away all its Fury on Touch of Chaos. It's doing it wrong. How is that a cheap shot?

So basically, we're going with stack ranks to judge a spec over a tier which have never been a reliable barometer, and a talent choice against APLs that are doing it wrong; then complaining the sky is falling? What. The. Fuck.