[6.2] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Woz]

Quick update I found that Chaos Wave with this build is better than Hand of Gul'dan except for the 2 initial ones on the pull. I found using Hand of Gul'dan after resulted in lower dps. The logs I am about to post is of Iron Jug using Hand of Gul'dan. I will be posting the Chaoswave log in a few. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ght=1&source=1
My rotation isn't perfect but this is without Chaoswave and on normal(flex difficulty).

I've found that as well in my own testing on dummies and with running an updated SimC profile the DPET of Chaos Wave is really really really really high. Like almost 40% over others. I'll play with exclusively Chaos Wave tonight in raid and see how it stacks up. Will be interesting to see.

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Hello all, I just rolled a warlock after a 2 year break from WoW. Played from vanilla Cata but mainly played Shadowpriest and Holy paladin for end game pve raiding. I am sort of disillusoned with the new COP rotation for shadow priest and decided to try a warlock for WOD because Demonology seems like a fun spec to play. I am just level 70 mind you and have read all sources of info regarding the rotation but still have some questions for the more experienced warlocks.Mind you all these questions popped up when i was trying the rotation on a dummy for 3 hours or so.

I understand that demonlogy is very cooldown based and that we need to keep an eye on trinket procs, and would like to understand the differences between 5.4 and 6.0 warlock changes.

1) Soul fire procs (without level 100 talents) : From what I understand soulfire procs are best saved for META and I need to make sure I start dumping my stacks at around 30% due to decimation. What I would like to know is , should i save my soul fire procs in meta only during dark soul and trinket procs or spend them at will in meta unless dark soul is close to coming off cooldown ? And secondly what number constitutes high stacks of molten core when i actually use soul fire in normal form(pre 25%)?

2) Touch of chaos : I am rather confused regarding this ability as some people on this forum state it should only be used when movement is required and otherwise should not be used. Is using touch of chaos to refresh corruption a bad thing when u are in meta with trinket proc and corruption is about to expire? And when dark soul or a trinket procs and i lack molten core charges should i stay in meta for the duration of the trinket proc and spam touch of chaos till the buff expires(ofc i assume this will change at 100 due to demonbolt)?

3) Metamorphosis : what i am confused about is if dark soul is a good minute away and i dont see any trinket/buffs in the near future and I am about to get fury capped. How much fury should i spend then till i break out of meta again ?

4)Chaos wave : Does it have a place in a single target rotation without the tier 17 set bonus?

I apologize if any of these questions seem silly. Excited to be playing the class and just want to have a better understand of it before WOD.

1. Save your Molten Core stacks until you are going into Meta with either DS or a trinket proc. MC caps at 10 stacks so if you're nearing cap and have extra fury to burn before DS comes off CD, use them.

2. Don't use Touch of Chaos to refresh Corruption and avoid using it unless you need to move. If you have no MC procs before DS wait until you have a couple of MC stacks to use DS. Unless you're going to cap on Fury it's not worth your time using ToC, even under trinkets/DS.

3. I'd say spend half of your bank. You don't need 1000 fury going into DS for it to be effective.

4. Right now, Chaos Wave seems to have a place but there's still some testing with that to be done. Otherwise you shouldn't see much of a use for it outside of T17 (unless these testing results show otherwise).

[DesireKT]

Does that mean you are waiting for almost 2 charges then just Meta Wavex2 and drop if it's not time to bleed fury or dump with MC. I wasn't in for half the night as I didn't need stuff, but seemed to be doing pretty good with just basic rotation (although played horribly probably since long time) and we only have Garrosh left so could be interesting to use Wave a lot there.

Also went Mastery/Haste and Mastery/crit with gear focused on Ilvl mastery>Haste>Crit.

[Woz]

Does that mean you are waiting for almost 2 charges then just Meta Wavex2 and drop if it's not time to bleed fury or dump with MC. I wasn't in for half the night as I didn't need stuff, but seemed to be doing pretty good with just basic rotation (although played horribly probably since long time) and we only have Garrosh left so could be interesting to use Wave a lot there.

Also went Mastery/Haste and Mastery/crit with gear focused on Ilvl mastery>Haste>Crit.

From looking through some of the logs it was normal opener w/ 2x HoG and using CW whenever you had a proc/before you got to 2 stacks.

[Caides]

CW being as good as it is right now also means ToC isn't as bad as everyone thinks, if you have 4pc. Don't dump all of your fury on it obviously, but don't be afraid of using it. I would say the chance of getting a proc possibly makes it worth using if you have the chance of hitting more than 1 target with the proc to outweigh soulfire damage.

[Smoothmeduso]

CW being as good as it is right now also means ToC isn't as bad as everyone thinks, if you have 4pc. Don't dump all of your fury on it obviously, but don't be afraid of using it. I would say the chance of getting a proc possibly makes it worth using if you have the chance of hitting more than 1 target with the proc to outweigh soulfire damage.

I am also finding this to be true. I am now using Touch of Chaos as my filler when procs are up, and using soulfire in normal form. Of course I think the reason is due to me being crit heavy. So far my priorities are Chaos Wave w/wo procs, Touch of Chaos, Doom, Soul fire in caster form, shadow bolt, and corruption. Corruption was lower on priority for me due to wild imps proccing from doom allowing adequate demonic fury to chaos wave. On multi target fights I am sure its priorities will be higher.

Wonder if there will be a chance for us to receive glyph of dark soul xD right about now.

[run108]

I've found that as well in my own testing on dummies and with running an updated SimC profile the DPET of Chaos Wave is really really really really high. Like almost 40% over others. I'll play with exclusively Chaos Wave tonight in raid and see how it stacks up. Will be interesting to see.

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1. Save your Molten Core stacks until you are going into Meta with either DS or a trinket proc. MC caps at 10 stacks so if you're nearing cap and have extra fury to burn before DS comes off CD, use them.

2. Don't use Touch of Chaos to refresh Corruption and avoid using it unless you need to move. If you have no MC procs before DS wait until you have a couple of MC stacks to use DS. Unless you're going to cap on Fury it's not worth your time using ToC, even under trinkets/DS.

3. I'd say spend half of your bank. You don't need 1000 fury going into DS for it to be effective.

4. Right now, Chaos Wave seems to have a place but there's still some testing with that to be done. Otherwise you shouldn't see much of a use for it outside of T17 (unless these testing results show otherwise).

Thanks for the tips. Last question if i may. Its regarding refreshing corruption. For example if there are 8 seconds left on corruption and u get a trinket proc, do u refresh corruption before entering meta(even though its ideally best to refresh it around the 5 second mark to get a full added duration) or go into meta right away and spend ur MC procs and worry about refreshing corruption after exiting meta or spend fury on one TOC to keep corruption rolling ?

[Woz]

CW being as good as it is right now also means ToC isn't as bad as everyone thinks, if you have 4pc. Don't dump all of your fury on it obviously, but don't be afraid of using it. I would say the chance of getting a proc possibly makes it worth using if you have the chance of hitting more than 1 target with the proc to outweigh soulfire damage.

Yep, exactly. Just from looking through logs it definitely is looking like CW is a viable option...Where'd you go with a rotation basically like this:

Normal opener but when you recharge HoG during DS use the charge on CW during DS duration.
and follow this rule:
If any procs/DS are active then CW
If not, save 1 charge of HoG for CW when you get a proc keeping yourself at 1 stack of HoG at all times. Stack HoG if you are able to if you have a big enough window for a charge to refresh before a proc.

[Smoothmeduso]

Thanks for the tips. Last question if i may. Its regarding refreshing corruption. For example if there are 8 seconds left on corruption and u get a trinket proc, do u refresh corruption before entering meta(even though its ideally best to refresh it around the 5 second mark to get a full added duration) or go into meta right away and spend ur MC procs and worry about refreshing corruption after exiting meta or spend fury on one TOC to keep corruption rolling ?

Since snapshotting isn't a thing anymore your dots will update as your procs go out, I would say to refresh corruption after it falls off or 1 second before this happens, minimal dps increase to decrease.

[Gnomemind]

So I went full mastery > haste > crit using chaos wave besides the first 2 and imps on demo form bursts with procs. I'm not sure if my rotation is getting better since I just picked it up yesterday however I am pulling 14.5k over the 12.4 yesterday. (target dummy no outside buffs / pots / flasks / food)

[Woz]

I am also finding this to be true. I am now using Touch of Chaos as my filler when procs are up, and using soulfire in normal form. Of course I think the reason is due to me being crit heavy. So far my priorities are Chaos Wave w/wo procs, Touch of Chaos, Doom, Soul fire in caster form, shadow bolt, and corruption. Corruption was lower on priority for me due to wild imps proccing from doom allowing adequate demonic fury to chaos wave. On multi target fights I am sure its priorities will be higher.

Wonder if there will be a chance for us to receive glyph of dark soul xD right about now.

Tonight I'm going to be doing a full Mastery build with 22.43% crit, 41.45% mastery and 31.83% haste and I'll be following the same priorities. One thing I may change is using soul fire in meta but not sure on the fury situation with doing that if CW is priority

[Smoothmeduso]

Yep, exactly. Just from looking through logs it definitely is looking like CW is a viable option...Where'd you go with a rotation basically like this:

Normal opener but when you recharge HoG during DS use the charge on CW during DS duration.
and follow this rule:
If any procs/DS are active then CW
If not, save 1 charge of HoG for CW when you get a proc keeping yourself at 1 stack of HoG at all times. Stack HoG if you are able to if you have a big enough window for a charge to refresh before a proc.

Good find seems like that is a pretty good idea for mastery+haste built warlocks. Just doing it roughly in my head make a whole lot of sense. More damage on dots plus maximizing chaos wave damage. I am thinking that for the mastery>crit or even crit>mastery build to use Chaos Wave on any proc for the chance that it will crit. I have had one Chaos Wave crit for 113k which is doubling my soulfires with buff in meta.( I have a log of me trying new rotation on a Garrosh wipe, I am still rusty with the rotation as you all can see in the log.) http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...-done&source=8 I hope to master the rotation by tomorrow's raid in Mythic, that is when I can give a more accurate log.



Regarding that log and looking at my spells and their crit % I find all of them over 50%, this is including my Felgaurd's main abilities and melee, Wild imps, and holy hell 72% crit on doomgaurd. I have a feeling fights such as protectors are going to be in the high 30-40k+ dps range.

[Woz]

Good find seems like that is a pretty good idea for mastery+haste built warlocks. Just doing it roughly in my head make a whole lot of sense. More damage on dots plus maximizing chaos wave damage. I am thinking that for the mastery>crit or even crit>mastery build to use Chaos Wave on any proc for the chance that it will crit. I have had one Chaos Wave crit for 113k which is doubling my soulfires with buff in meta.( I have a log of me trying new rotation on a Garrosh wipe, I am still rusty with the rotation as you all can see in the log.) http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...-done&source=8 I hope to master the rotation by tomorrow's raid in Mythic, that is when I can give a more accurate log.



Regarding that log and looking at my spells and their crit % I find all of them over 50%, this is including my Felgaurd's main abilities and melee, Wild imps, and holy hell 72% crit on doomgaurd. I have a feeling fights such as protectors are going to be in the high 30-40k+ dps range.

I am very much considering swapping to a mastery>crit build with that in mind.

[Santoisms]

Using simcraft and says Mastery is the lowest stat, but whatever simcraft don't know me! Using all mastery gems but a few Haste Mastery gems, and Synergy is simming higher for me as well.

[Woz]

Regarding that log and looking at my spells and their crit % I find all of them over 50%, this is including my Felgaurd's main abilities and melee, Wild imps, and holy hell 72% crit on doomgaurd. I have a feeling fights such as protectors are going to be in the high 30-40k+ dps range.

Also one thing that was noted to me about what you're looking at for crit % it's actually not the right value to look at -- mouse over the next section in Warcraft Logs and you'll see the actual % of crit; IE: http://i.imgur.com/Y4FRpMY.png

Either way with that being said; still see tremendous value in crit and changed my setup to go mastery>crit. Going from mastery>haste to mastery>crit I lost 3% mastery for 10% crit. Worthy trade, I'd say.

[Smoothmeduso]

Also one thing that was noted to me about what you're looking at for crit % it's actually not the right value to look at -- mouse over the next section in Warcraft Logs and you'll see the actual % of crit; IE: http://i.imgur.com/Y4FRpMY.png

Either way with that being said; still see tremendous value in crit and changed my setup to go mastery>crit. Going from mastery>haste to mastery>crit I lost 3% mastery for 10% crit. Worthy trade, I'd say.

In a way I am happen that the stats I thought were crits were wrong I truly believe we would have been nerfed within a week. Most of those %s are off due to it including multistrike. In reg terms of hit vs crit the % is actually higher for both. http://i58.tinypic.com/2ztbo5d.png sorry tinypic is all i know lol. That photo on tinypic shows that there were 87 hits without multistrike included.It takes 43.5 hits to be 50% of 87 yet the log has it at 47% with 54 hits. This also raises the crit percentage.

[Xorn]

Using simcraft and says Mastery is the lowest stat, but whatever simcraft don't know me! Using all mastery gems but a few Haste Mastery gems, and Synergy is simming higher for me as well.

I think what we're forgetting here is how exactly simcraft calculates stat weights. It calculates it by adding/subtracting a set amount to each stat and noting the increase/decrease in dps comparing to adding/subtracting the same amount of other stats, and then gives weights based off that.

So what we're seeing is that with so little MS, adding a bunch of it would be a huge dps increase, whereas adding more Mastery to our already large pool won't have as big of an impact. So while Mastery may be weighted the lowest for you, it's not saying that it's a bad stat, just that an equal gain of our near non-existent other stats will be better at this point due to the huge imbalance.

[Alarinth]

I tried playing with my mastery / haste build yesterday, and with Chaos Wave primarily. I mixed it around a little, but my anecdotal findings say that Chaos Wave really, really beats hand of gul'dan, to such a big extent toc almost beats soul fire as well just because of the set bonus. I'm gonna jump the bandwagon you guys mentioned with mastery / crit builds. I ran with 43% mastery and 31% crit yesterday, but I can gain a lot more by swapping int/mastery to crit/mastery gems.

Several other classes in my raid went full out crit, so I'm wondering - what happened to crit to suddenly make it so worthwhile for everyone? Or was the change to the other stats to make them less good while crit is more like a constant? Did the value per point of crit drop significantly?

[Caides]

Not sure, but decided to mess around on a dummy for a bit and CW seems to be hitting for a little less than earlier today. Could be lack of buffs, but I don't think raid buffs would almost double the damage. US Realms before shutdown. I'm probably wrong, though.

[Crisius]

Super-inflated mastery levels give higher benefit to CW due to the change in our mastery and removal of snapshotting. CW might be superior right now, but won't necessarily be for the first tier of Warlords. I'll tweak an APL later and run some sims for statweights and proper comparison.

[Deleted]

Didn't raid yet, but on the target dummy I got slightly better results over a couple of 5-8 minute attempts when using mc-charges in caster form and ToC/CW only in meta. So far I only used HoG in the opener and when I was about to reach 2 charges without any proccs to prevent capping.