[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Servasus]

Revival is only 5% of the higher monk's healing. Trading Revival timings is not going to make him do 50k more HPS (~+71.5% healing!). Just look at the healing amounts. Extend Life is 44m vs. 26.5m. Uplift is 40m vs 30m. ReM is 17m vs 12.5m. SooM is 8mil vs 4 mil. Surgings is 7.5m vs 3.5m. RJW (why are they even using it) is 8m vs 2.5m. Gear is similar; therefore, 2nd Monk isn't hitting buttons fast enough and often enough, even though spell comp looks similar.

Could check UFE usage but 2nd Monk is way behind regardless. Non-UFE trinkets should only put you ahead on meters by about 5-10% HPS (as opposed to the ~71.5% healing in the logs).

"Only 5% of the higher monk's healing," but is doing FOUR-MILLION more. The higher monk has better reaction times all around. It's obvious. He's also using his major CDs in spots that allow for more healing, and he's heal sniping better with extend than the other monk it. It's really not hard to tell just from a glance. But you can't deny that 4 million more healing just from one of his spells isn't a clear sign of better CD times for him over the lower monk. If you took 4 million healing from the top one and gave it to the lower one, the gap between them would even with just that one spell, be significantly smaller.

Either way, as I said before, someone's always going to get shafted when you overheal content. Even if all three of your healers had the exact same skill level, there's rng involved plus class and spec differentiation. 10M healing was done by the holy pally that basically locks the other two healers out from ever healing that damage. A disc priest would be even worse.

I'm not saying the lower guy doesn't have shit to work out; he obviously does. But it's highly unlikely he will be able to up his reaction time to be equal to or better than the higher monk anytime soon. The name of the game right now, because everything is on farm, is snipe the other healer's heals or solo heal fights. The spikiness of the damage and the gear level of the healers just won't allow anything else.

[Mastashifu-khaz]

Can anyone confirm whether or not (mythic)Iron Reavers Barrage targets us? I've been told conflicting stories, so right now I play as if it does.

[palaios]

Tooltop of uplift says that it heals everyone with renewing mist buff on them, is this the case or is 6 the limit?

[Mastashifu-khaz]

Uplift will heal all players with the renewing mist HoT.

[Oka555]

I have a quick question. Would stone fo the elements be better than the candle for me atm?

[Supliftz]

Can anyone confirm whether or not (mythic)Iron Reavers Barrage targets us? I've been told conflicting stories, so right now I play as if it does.

it will not target you if you have other healers alive

[Geodew]

Tooltop of uplift says that it heals everyone with renewing mist buff on them, is this the case or is 6 the limit?

It heals all players, but for 7+ players, the healing is equal to as if you healed 6 people, divided among all INJURED players with ReM on them. In other words, Uplift heals its maximum amount at 6 injured players.

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"Only 5% of the higher monk's healing," but is doing FOUR-MILLION more. The higher monk has better reaction times all around. It's obvious. He's also using his major CDs in spots that allow for more healing, and he's heal sniping better with extend than the other monk it. It's really not hard to tell just from a glance. But you can't deny that 4 million more healing just from one of his spells isn't a clear sign of better CD times for him over the lower monk. If you took 4 million healing from the top one and gave it to the lower one, the gap between them would even with just that one spell, be significantly smaller.

Well, let's look at exactly what you said, because I stand by my position that what you said was highly misleading:

"One is getting to use revival during times when it's actually going to do healing, and is slightly better on extend life sniping. That's about it."

You say four million like that's a lot. Do the math. The implication of the fact that Revival is 5% of the higher monk's healing, if you're not getting it, is that even if the lower monk had ZERO Revival healing, using Revival at equally appropriate times as the other monk could only increase his healing by up to about 8.5% (adding four million to the healing he did), yet the other monk did ~1.7 times his healing, not ~1.085. It's a drastic difference that cannot even begin to be covered simply by Revival timing. A similar conclusion follows for the Extend Life healing. Since the argument there is nearly identical, I won't spell it out.

Therefore, it wasn't just Revival or Extend Life. Higher monk stomped lower monk on pretty much literally every spell. With similar gear levels and both players in the same exact fight at the same exact time, it follows that the largest glaring problem is that the lower monk is just not hitting buttons enough. For all we know, with play like that, it could be that lower monk is just bad at using Revival at appropriate times. Revival assignments for progression encounters are easy to learn and do. The crux of their problem with the lower monk is not that (or at least shouldn't be), but the low overall HPS. Am I not correct there?

P.S. if you're having fun discussing, maybe we should take this to the "help my monk" thread?

Either way, as I said before, someone's always going to get shafted when you overheal content. Even if all three of your healers had the exact same skill level, there's rng involved plus class and spec differentiation. 10M healing was done by the holy pally that basically locks the other two healers out from ever healing that damage. A disc priest would be even worse.

I'm not saying the lower guy doesn't have shit to work out; he obviously does. But it's highly unlikely he will be able to up his reaction time to be equal to or better than the higher monk anytime soon. The name of the game right now, because everything is on farm, is snipe the other healer's heals or solo heal fights. The spikiness of the damage and the gear level of the healers just won't allow anything else.

On to the more philosophical bit, I don't really agree with that for players of the same spec. RNG is not a particularly large factor for Mistweaver. If the players were of similar skill, they would be much much closer together. I don't at all buy that meters could have ended up something close to this solely due to luck and not skill or gear.

[Oka555]

Are blood elfs the best race for mw right now? and if so will they continue to be in legion?

[Supliftz]

yes and yes

[Oka555]

is it because of arcane torrent?

[TrollShaman]

Not just that for on-demand chi+aoe interrupt which both is never a bad racial to have but the passive 1% crit is also quite meaningful for mw monks

[Supliftz]

is it because of arcane torrent?

yee, 1% crit is also pretty good

[Myta]

Are blood elfs the best race for mw right now? and if so will they continue to be in legion?

If mana is an issue than the crit/chi/mana from Arcane Torrent is really very good, definitely the best horde monk. I'm biased but just based on racials alone than Draenei are the best Alliance monks, and given the choice of Draenei vs Belf I would pick the Draenei. In BiS you're already going to have unlimited mana. So you have to balance it around 1chi every 1.5minute or a 20% heal over 5 sec hot every 3min. And compare the 1%crit vs 65int (which is huge, +65 int is the same amount of int you gain from a 2/2 warforged mythic chest piece over a regular mythic chest piece.) Crit is good, but raw spell power is almost always better.

In a vacuum Arcane Torrent is better, but in practice Gift of the Naaru is a 2nd Enveloping Mists for free, that doesn't require you to SooM first. Almost every fight from heal absorbs on Zakuun and Velhaari, soaking stacks on Mannoroth and Archimonde. GotN saves lives and it's tangibly/clutch useful in a way that Arcane Torrent is more passively useful (providing long term benefit over a fight) especially on a class like Monk that is shy on healing cooldowns.

Again, I'm super biased and if you're Horde than this probably doesn't matter to you, but Belf isn't a be-all-end-all race, especially if your talking about practical benefits to actual progression versus which race is best in a simulator.

[Geodew]

is it because of arcane torrent?

No, it's because they're not ugly like the other Horde races. Seriously though yeah, what they said.

[Supliftz]

don't really see how you can see gift is better than arcane torrent when extend life exists.

2 chi every 3 minutes vs 20% of your hp in a heal isn't even a comparison you can make.

[Myta]

don't really see how you can see gift is better than arcane torrent when extend life exists.

2 chi every 3 minutes vs 20% of your hp in a heal isn't even a comparison you can make.

GotN doesn't benefit from Life Cocoon, doesn't benefit from SP, Extend Life. If it did it'd probably be pretty broken.

But what it is is a fat bursty hot which is fast enough to save lives. If you math it out they don't seem comparable but GotN is good practically speaking not mathematically, I see GotN providing more of a tangible effect on every attempt than Torrent, even if the chi gain from Torrent is more effective in long fights. But if you play with GotN, you'll see countless ways to use it, and it's stopped wipes in ways a EnV just isn't fast enough for, while also being a second EnV, or to double up on EnV when that amount of healing is necessary (Like tanks soaking stacks on Mannoroth where both have tanks have stacks on them, but the active tank needs chunky hots like EnV+GotN to deal with boss+stacks), it's very quite good in practic.

[cqwrteur]

No, it's because they're not ugly like the other Horde races. Seriously though yeah, what they said.

Well, human female is not ugly like the other alliance races too.

I only play human, blood elf and neutral pandaren female. So I will NEVER play druids or shamans.

I think it's a good example to prove mistweavers are underpowered. Druids and Shamans can't choose human or blood elves female, but they are more represented than us.

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Horde is not competitive in PVP, for blood elves are underpowered in PVP but they are the most represented horde race.
That's why arcane torrent was buffed from 2 min cd to 1.5 min cd. However, it pushed lots of top alliance PVE guilds to the horde in HFC. Stacking blood elves for interrupt is just powerful.

What if arcane torrent is buffed to 1 min or 30s? lol

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don't really see how you can see gift is better than arcane torrent when extend life exists.

2 chi every 3 minutes vs 20% of your hp in a heal isn't even a comparison you can make.

Every man for himself is also powerful.

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GotN doesn't benefit from Life Cocoon, doesn't benefit from SP, Extend Life. If it did it'd probably be pretty broken.

But what it is is a fat bursty hot which is fast enough to save lives. If you math it out they don't seem comparable but GotN is good practically speaking not mathematically, I see GotN providing more of a tangible effect on every attempt than Torrent, even if the chi gain from Torrent is more effective in long fights. But if you play with GotN, you'll see countless ways to use it, and it's stopped wipes in ways a EnV just isn't fast enough for, while also being a second EnV, or to double up on EnV when that amount of healing is necessary (Like tanks soaking stacks on Mannoroth where both have tanks have stacks on them, but the active tank needs chunky hots like EnV+GotN to deal with boss+stacks), it's very quite good in practic.

If so, they will buff arcane torrent to 30s.

[Supliftz]

GotN doesn't benefit from Life Cocoon, doesn't benefit from SP, Extend Life. If it did it'd probably be pretty broken.

But what it is is a fat bursty hot which is fast enough to save lives. If you math it out they don't seem comparable but GotN is good practically speaking not mathematically, I see GotN providing more of a tangible effect on every attempt than Torrent, even if the chi gain from Torrent is more effective in long fights. But if you play with GotN, you'll see countless ways to use it, and it's stopped wipes in ways a EnV just isn't fast enough for, while also being a second EnV, or to double up on EnV when that amount of healing is necessary (Like tanks soaking stacks on Mannoroth where both have tanks have stacks on them, but the active tank needs chunky hots like EnV+GotN to deal with boss+stacks), it's very quite good in practic.

Even if GoTN was effected by extend life or Life cocoon, it would still be outclassed by arcane torrent. That said, let's do some extremely basic math (geodew please don't hate me i'm a big noob).

20% of my hp in a raid setting is ~103k, which means every 3 minutes I can do 103k healing over 5 seconds. This does not scale with any secondary stat.

Lets assume a 6 target uplift, and we have two extend life targets. 1 chi = ~500% spell power + 250%x2 on your extend life targets equaling 1000% total spell power every 90 seconds, and 2000% spell power every 3 minutes. However you can't assume extend life is only 50% of your uplift, because of fake uplift healing, it's also going to be a lot higher than this in reality because it scales with our secondary stats. This is also ignoring that 1 chi is 1/4 of mana tea.

So as you can see this extremely basic napkin math shows that GoTN is completely outclassed numbers wise. In reality the numbers gap between arcane torrent and gift will widen because of fake uplift healing and secondaries.

Now lets talk about Gift of the naruu being better for versatility. I really can't see how this is the case. Looking at your logs of Gift usage;

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=121093

A 12k heal a 20k heal on 1 target every second doesn't seem nearly as good as good as off global cooldown chi gen. Even when I used to argue with people about power strikes being better than chi brew, one thing I really couldn't argue was the power of off global chi gen. That was the element of chi brew somewhat redeems it's lower total hps. So by this logic, the power of off-global chi gen applies to arcane torrent. The power to continuously chain uplift -> rems with arcane torrent is what makes it so much better, because extend life is broken. If your arcane torrent allows you to cast another uplift after you snipe with extend life, this will be far more useful/powerful than gift of the naruu.

Arcane torrent being the best racial will continue in the future because mistweaver really needs the mana more than anything. Crit is also the best/second stat for mana tea and rising thunder respectively.

TL;DR chi is overpowered, so that means arcane torrent is overpowered.

[Myta]

Even if GoTN was effected by extend life or Life cocoon, it would still be outclassed by arcane torrent. That said, let's do some extremely basic math (geodew please don't hate me i'm a big noob).

20% of my hp in a raid setting is ~103k, which means every 3 minutes I can do 103k healing over 5 seconds. This does not scale with any secondary stat.

Lets assume a 6 target uplift, and we have two extend life targets. 1 chi = ~500% spell power + 250%x2 on your extend life targets equaling 1000% total spell power every 90 seconds, and 2000% spell power every 3 minutes. However you can't assume extend life is only 50% of your uplift, because of fake uplift healing, it's also going to be a lot higher than this in reality because it scales with our secondary stats. This is also ignoring that 1 chi is 1/4 of mana tea.

So as you can see this extremely basic napkin math shows that GoTN is completely outclassed numbers wise. In reality the numbers gap between arcane torrent and gift will widen because of fake uplift healing and secondaries.

Now lets talk about Gift of the naruu being better for versatility. I really can't see how this is the case. Looking at your logs of Gift usage;

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=121093

A 12k heal a 20k heal on 1 target every second doesn't seem nearly as good as good as off global cooldown chi gen. Even when I used to argue with people about power strikes being better than chi brew, one thing I really couldn't argue was the power of off global chi gen. That was the element of chi brew somewhat redeems it's lower total hps. So by this logic, the power of off-global chi gen applies to arcane torrent. The power to continuously chain uplift -> rems with arcane torrent is what makes it so much better, because extend life is broken. If your arcane torrent allows you to cast another uplift after you snipe with extend life, this will be far more useful/powerful than gift of the naruu.

Arcane torrent being the best racial will continue in the future because mistweaver really needs the mana more than anything. Crit is also the best/second stat for mana tea and rising thunder respectively.

TL;DR chi is overpowered, so that means arcane torrent is overpowered.

There are many caveats I added into my very first post that included how Arcane Torrent was mathematically better. That's not the point I was trying to make. There is a humongus difference between sustained HPS over a fight and something like a longer CD but fast burst HoT. GotN will never top logs, nor will they account for a timed GotN that saves lives and continues an attempt when otherwise it would fail, Arcane Torrent can't do that. Does that make AT not the best racial for monks? No. I'm just saying that GotN for MW is still a incredibly strong racial overall and the best Alliance racial for a Mistweaver.

The skill in practice is quite strong, and it's understated that it's also off the GCD so the speed at which this CD comes out is unrivaled. If you played with it enough I'm sure you would agree how good it is.

[Supliftz]

There are many caveats I added into my very first post that included how Arcane Torrent was mathematically better. That's not the point I was trying to make. There is a humongus difference between sustained HPS over a fight and something like a longer CD but fast burst HoT. GotN will never top logs, nor will they account for a timed GotN that saves lives and continues an attempt when otherwise it would fail, Arcane Torrent can't do that. Does that make AT not the best racial for monks? No. I'm just saying that GotN for MW is still a incredibly strong racial overall and the best Alliance racial for a Mistweaver.

The skill in practice is quite strong, and it's understated that it's also off the GCD so the speed at which this CD comes out is unrivaled. If you played with it enough I'm sure you would agree how good it is.

How can you even say Arcane Torrent doesn't save lifes when we have extend life? Arcane Torrent not only offers better burst hps thanks to extend life, but offers better sustain and more mana.

There's not even a comparison you can make.

Sure you can say GoTN is a good aillance racial, but the best overall racial is arcane torrent by a long shot. This will continue into legion.