1. #1541
    I'm just an innocent bystander here but doesn't this
    so yea after they killed it they thought "this would be easier with a MW" but no-one cares about that.
    contradict that monks were "weak" when talking about world first guilds using them or not? If anything this:

    when i spoke to devai he said they would've used a MW in hindsight but they had to gear up dps instead
    speaks more to how powerful WW was than how weak vs any of the healers were and probably just shows that its easier to gear the other specs of healers that don't share loot when trying to gear out Windwalkers which were very strong this tier.

    Then consider that other WF quality guilds used MW's in their first kills of the boss as well shows that the potential was there and a lot of their kill videos show how strong they performed relative to others. I'm sure you would've seen better results if you were doing some fistweaving at the start when there's no damage to generate tea rather than sit in melee and overheal when literally no damage is going out.

    I suspect we'll see more Mistweavers and Brewmasters in BRF than we did in Highmaul for the WF race though.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
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  2. #1542
    Quote Originally Posted by Leblue View Post
    Then consider that other WF quality guilds used MW's in their first kills of the boss as well shows that the potential was there and a lot of their kill videos show how strong they performed relative to others. I'm sure you would've seen better results if you were doing some fistweaving at the start when there's no damage to generate tea rather than sit in melee and overheal when literally no damage is going out.
    idk, i played so i entered p3 with full mana and 15-16~ stacks of mana tea.

    but thx for telling me how to contribute basically 0 dps to a boss with no tough enrage timer and when mana's a non-issue anyway. ^^
    Last edited by Floopa; 2014-12-27 at 03:35 PM.

  3. #1543
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    I mean mana is only ever a issue if you spam rjw. Our basic healing rotation basically requires no spirit. I would imagine if you're doing the bitch job, and not killing the exploding adds, getting to 15-16 stacks of mana tea would be fairly easy. However i've seen PoV's of people needing to spam rjw to keep up with the damage w/ 5 healers.

    I don't think kiting the adds will be that common, like it was for Garrosh (shoutout to enh shamans), so generating mana tea and providing non irrelevant dps is a bigger deal (imo). It beats just overhealing in serpent which is the only other thing you could be doing during that period.

    P.S I think Mistweavers will raise up in power once we hit BRF. I mean we're already pretty strong (not disc priest level). Having upwards of 40% multistrike is going to be pure lulz for fights like BF or Beastlord. Also being middle of the pack right now isn't a bad thing.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2014-12-27 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #1544
    Today I learned that dps is irrelevant especially when being brought for that exact "utility" according to you.

    Not every guild is going to kite the adds so that their throughput healers are busy trying to snipe eachother instead of actually healing damage. Its also not a great precedent to basically say "I played badly but its okay because it doesn't matter!" but that's just my .02 on the matter.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
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  5. #1545
    Quote Originally Posted by Leblue View Post
    Today I learned that dps is irrelevant especially when being brought for that exact "utility" according to you.

    Not every guild is going to kite the adds so that their throughput healers are busy trying to snipe eachother instead of actually healing damage. Its also not a great precedent to basically say "I played badly but its okay because it doesn't matter!" but that's just my .02 on the matter.
    the utility is being an unkillable healer which can transport 70~ yards in 4-5 seconds

    the dps isn't needed on mar'gok until p3 and in p3 you're pretty much constantly healing tanks/raid, and in p4 again you're constantly healing.

    i would say we're middle of the pack right now yea, and i would say as our MS % increases to dumb high levels (it's already hitting 30%~ raid buffed for me and that's without mar'gok trinket, mar'gok weapon or all of the MS gear from BRF) we'll become a lot stronger. not to mention we always have "lol you can't kill us" as a card to play in times of need XD

  6. #1546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    Where did you see this? Source plox.



    Well supposedly world 1st didn't have a mw, purely because of gear. World 3/4/5/6/8/9/etc all had 1 mistweaver and all performed solidly. Using Method as an example "this class sucks because method" isn't a good example to me. Method has consistently ran 'sub-optimal' comps (hello no disc priest for most of highmaul, when they're clearly gods), and get away with because they're good players. Method is in the out-layer of running a mw on margok.
    Source for Deva talking about using a Healer monk

    And on topic, I agree that we're middle of the pack in Highmaul but I definitely, like many others, believe that we'll be giving Disc priests a run for their money once our multistrike goes higher.

    Do you think that we'd be able to explore our other level 100 talents once we reach that level of multistrike though?
    Is the Chi generation and safety of Pool of Mists too great?
    Last edited by mmoc1ffcb8ba53; 2014-12-27 at 04:15 PM.

  7. #1547
    The Patient Tryvia's Avatar
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    Got my Rune-Escribed Hood today (Mythic follower quest) should i equip it over Toria's Perseverance?

  8. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryvia View Post
    Got my Rune-Escribed Hood today (Mythic follower quest) should i equip it over Toria's Perseverance?
    its not stronger

    but ilvl > all Kappa

  9. #1549
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    P.S I think Mistweavers will raise up in power once we hit BRF. I mean we're already pretty strong (not disc priest level). Having upwards of 40% multistrike is going to be pure lulz for fights like BF or Beastlord. Also being middle of the pack right now isn't a bad thing.
    This is the truth, once those multistrike numbers get high mistweavers are going to be pretty crazy pretty fast.

  10. #1550
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ququ View Post
    Source for Deva talking about using a Healer monk

    And on topic, I agree that we're middle of the pack in Highmaul but I definitely, like many others, believe that we'll be giving Disc priests a run for their money once our multistrike goes higher.

    Do you think that we'd be able to explore our other level 100 talents once we reach that level of multistrike though?
    Is the Chi generation and safety of Pool of Mists too great?
    Pool is going to make supporting 40% ms + a hell of a lot easier.

    If they buff ChiEX then rem management hardly matters. Not having pool is only a big deal if you have BoTS.

    EDIT: Hey team, what's your uptime on MS weapon enchant. Thinking of switching to it for mar'gok progression.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2014-12-28 at 02:39 AM.

  11. #1551
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    Pool is going to make supporting 40% ms + a hell of a lot easier.

    If they buff ChiEX then rem management hardly matters. Not having pool is only a big deal if you have BoTS.

    EDIT: Hey team, what's your uptime on MS weapon enchant. Thinking of switching to it for mar'gok progression.
    Seems to be around 25-30%. Kind of silly compared to mastery chants having 50%+.

  12. #1552
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    An Alterac Valley war game yesterday.
    Damage:

    Killing blows

    I am No.1 healer, 91.8M healing done. All computers in an AV war game have only 20 fps for Blizzard's garbage servers, so I use surging-surging-uplift instead of soothing-surging-surging-uplift.
    Healing done:


    Horde healers: 5 holy priest,1 disc priest, 1 holy pal, 4 resto sm, 3 resto druid, 4 mistweaver

    The other MWs of horde here:

    And this could answer why

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    They could have been objectively the best healer in the game and there still wouldn't have been any if they didn't pick up on that and realize it before they started Heroic gear feeding. It wouldn't have mattered if they got to Mar'gok and thought "damn, a MW would be a lot stronger than a Holy Priest or Resto Druid here!" because geared characters of that spec and class didn't exist in their raid roster.

    You can easily see the same thing with BrM. They literally are the objectively and provably best tank in the game since the hotfixes, and yet there are far fewer parses than even Guardian Druids published to WCL for Mythic. Hell, Paragon still has neither a main Mistweaver or Brewmaster, despite both specs being obviously more useful than others on multiple Mythic fights.

    Perception matters a lot more than reality to top guilds. How many of those clowns were even aware that Revival was just as good as Tranq when Highmaul opened? They decided what the best was months ago and rolled with that, it's not like you can just switch classes once you've already started world-first level raiding.
    I think the reason is just like the picutre shows that finding good MWs are difficult. So they are not wiiling to risk for this.

    Our MW president Geodew is right. Revival is not THAT strong. Nerf it is a bad idea.

    The picture shows that RJW is still a good talent. You have to use it in many cases instead of Xuen.




    Disc priest is still too strong.Without revival I couldn't be No.1 .
    Last edited by cqwrteur; 2014-12-28 at 07:35 AM.

  13. #1553
    There is really no definition of a "good" mw. I havn't seen it, It used to be high renewing mist uptime. Mine is around 98+%, what's your guy's criteria on what makes a good mistweaver now?
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  14. #1554
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buildapanda View Post
    There is really no definition of a "good" mw. I havn't seen it, It used to be high renewing mist uptime. Mine is around 98+%, what's your guy's criteria on what makes a good mistweaver now?
    Yes. They have their own definition of "good" MW, so finding a "suitable mw" for them is so difficult.

  15. #1555
    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    Yes. They have their own definition of "good" MW, so finding a "suitable mw" for them is so difficult.
    I could really care less about those guilds and what they determine my spec to be good, I want to know what the people who theorycraft think is considered good, so I can compare myself to that and not someones arbitrary opinion on what is good.(hint: downing raid bosses doesn't mean you're good, people can be carried in a raid and still get credit for a kill)
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  16. #1556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buildapanda View Post
    I could really care less about those guilds and what they determine my spec to be good, I want to know what the people who theorycraft think is considered good, so I can compare myself to that and not someones arbitrary opinion on what is good.(hint: downing raid bosses doesn't mean you're good, people can be carried in a raid and still get credit for a kill)
    They don't understand MWs. So it's truly difficult for them to bring a MW to a mythic. No MWs for them is just history reason (5.4 we are "bad").

  17. #1557
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    I honestly have no idea why you linked a war game. Like that has any relevance to raiding lol.

    I don't know how you say throughput raid cds like tranq/revival aren't strong. They're both equally stupid, and make healing shit because they're so strong.

    I mean yeah, your pictures show how good rjw/uplift are. Basically common knowledge at this point.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2014-12-28 at 07:12 AM.

  18. #1558
    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    They don't understand MWs. So it's truly difficult for them to bring a MW to a mythic. No MWs for them is just history reason (5.4 we are "bad").
    I agree, to be fair, I think we all psyched ourselves out going into WoD that MW's were going to be bad, but we ended up being the best. I think it was a surprised to a lot of people. I'm still surprised I'm the top healer.
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  19. #1559
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buildapanda View Post
    I agree, to be fair, I think we all psyched ourselves out going into WoD that MW's were going to be bad, but we ended up being the best. I think it was a surprised to a lot of people. I'm still surprised I'm the top healer.
    Mistweavers were in no way weak going into WoD. People who said this didn't read 995% uplift and god tier revival.

    Most people saying this were either A: Going off early beta raid testing, with godly resto druids/holy priests or B: misinformed and refused to acknowledge how strong our AoE healing potential was.

    The hotfixes were only extra and will push us into odd positions balance wise, once we get high MS (~40%) and t17 2pc. I can't even imagine our ST healing potential with 2pc. I will say though, LC hotfix was needed.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2014-12-28 at 07:17 AM.

  20. #1560
    It's more like a large part of the playerbase forms conceptions about the way things are and then it takes hitting them over the head with the hammer of reality to convince them otherwise.

    I was hearing literally up until the day Highmaul came out that raid healing hadn't changed at all and that Thok-esque healing where the entire raid gets bursted down and healed back to full every 2 seconds was still going to happen in T17. I was hearing "Revival is bad and MWs are bad raid healers" after Highmaul had already released.

    It's just weird because it's almost like the last 2 months of beta or the post-6.0 hotfixes in SoO just didn't happen for some people and they're still living in the July-August world where MW was down-right awful.

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