[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[burmaben]

Is this new fistweaving "meta" only useful on Butcher?

I've seen people successfully fistweave twins (dependent on strategy). Otherwise, bracken you want to sotws for spamming mushrooms, and tectus you need to focus on tanks in the last phase, although I see fistweaving probably viable for farming tectus. Koragh you may be able to fistweave for a little, but certainly not the whole fight.

I haven't done imp, but from what I've seen you can fistweave parts but the healing gets so intensive you're better off with your healing talents anyway.

you can use whatever the heck you want to on kargath...it's kargath..

[Volibear]

Is this new fistweaving "meta" only useful on Butcher?

I believe it's strong on Twins as well.

[burmaben]

I'm pretty sure ChiEx orbs count as ChiEx healing.

Detonating those spheres I'm also pretty sure will be ChiEx healing, could be wrong.

What I mean is in the log warcraftlogs.com/reports/aMzft6J8XcQhZYD3#type=healing&fight=21&source=17&start=8338085&end=8456677&ability=173439& +view=events&view=events

if someone picked up 2 orbs it would be 2 separate events. possible suggesting why some people are getting 5 heals at a time (moving into 2 stacked orbs)

[Volibear]

whats with these changes to Mistweaver Fist of Fury and Hurricane Strike? did I miss something, are we getting these?

No, Blizz have always had tooltips for those abilities though. Not sure why.

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What I mean is in the log warcraftlogs.com/reports/aMzft6J8XcQhZYD3#type=healing&fight=21&source=17&start=8338085&end=8456677&ability=173439& +view=events&view=events

if someone picked up 2 orbs it would be 2 separate events. possible suggesting why some people are getting 5 heals at a time (moving into 2 stacked orbs)

I can think of a few simultaneous events.
Chi Explosion healing
Chi Explosion from Statue
Eminence from Statue from Chi Explosion Damage
Eminence from Chi Explosion Damage
Chi Explosion spheres

Edit: After re-reading, I noticed all of those heal events are SOLELY Chi Explosion. in that case, I have no idea, because that removes a bunch of simultaneous events I thought may have been causing it :\

[elril]

Wouldn't every orb pickup be a separate event? Also, his overhealing is miles below yours, even in that small frame. 13% vs over 40%.

He also doesn't waste any time with chi burst, or even chi wave for that matter

Thanks for pointing out the overhealing, I actually didn't notice that. AFAIK our druids and shams pop their burst CDs early so that would account for some of the lost HPS, although it still doesn't explain the ChiEx events. I also noticed his GoTS healing is abnormally high, at ~13%. If Detonate Chi counts as either GoTS or Chi Explosion, it seems to make sense that one of those should be high, but not both. I can't tell if he's casting it.... very mysterious.

I can think of a few simultaneous events.
Chi Explosion healing
Chi Explosion from Statue
Eminence from Statue from Chi Explosion Damage
Eminence from Chi Explosion Damage
Chi Explosion spheres

Edit: After re-reading, I noticed all of those heal events are SOLELY Chi Explosion. in that case, I have no idea, because that removes a bunch of simultaneous events I thought may have been causing it :\

Also, those heal events are only from one of the ChiEx spells (the one doing the most healing). There are other ChiEx spells that have far less events per cast.

[Volibear]

Thanks for pointing out the overhealing, I actually didn't notice that. AFAIK our druids and shams pop their burst CDs early so that would account for some of the lost HPS, although it still doesn't explain the ChiEx events. I also noticed his GoTS healing is abnormally high, at ~13%. If Detonate Chi counts as either GoTS or Chi Explosion, it seems to make sense that one of those should be high, but not both. I can't tell if he's casting it.... very mysterious.

I think his GotS healing is high just because he has almost 800 mastery on gear. It'd work out to 25-30% mastery raid buffed.

Possiblya combination of this and the fact that GotS has better scalars for Crane?

[Totaltotemic]

I think his GotS healing is high just because he has almost 800 mastery on gear. It'd work out to 25-30% mastery raid buffed.

Possiblya combination of this and the fact that GotS has better scalars for Crane?

It's not Crane as much as Chi Explosion if it's hitting almost an entire raid. I didn't write down the CE coefficient and the post on the beta forum seems to have been wiped out along with the rest of the forum, but I remember it being awful on a single target (obviously, like every scalar is) but as CE hits more targets it doesn't do any more healing yet each target is another change to spawn a sphere. This meant that healing, say, 15 people with CE would have 15x the chance to proc GotS than on only one target (not to mention that the damage portion also goes out as Eminence which also has its own chance to proc GotS). If I remember right it became efficient somewhere around 6 targets, but then up at 15 it would be a little crazy, more GotS-efficient than even ReM.

So yeah, Crane not so much, but Chi Explosion meteoring means it does actually do more GotS healing per target even if it doesn't do any more real healing per target.

[Volibear]

It's not Crane as much as Chi Explosion if it's hitting almost an entire raid. I didn't write down the CE coefficient and the post on the beta forum seems to have been wiped out along with the rest of the forum, but I remember it being awful on a single target (obviously, like every scalar is) but as CE hits more targets it doesn't do any more healing yet each target is another change to spawn a sphere. This meant that healing, say, 15 people with CE would have 15x the chance to proc GotS than on only one target (not to mention that the damage portion also goes out as Eminence which also has its own chance to proc GotS). If I remember right it became efficient somewhere around 6 targets, but then up at 15 it would be a little crazy, more GotS-efficient than even ReM.

So yeah, Crane not so much, but Chi Explosion meteoring means it does actually do more GotS healing per target even if it doesn't do any more real healing per target.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

[elril]

It's not Crane as much as Chi Explosion if it's hitting almost an entire raid. I didn't write down the CE coefficient and the post on the beta forum seems to have been wiped out along with the rest of the forum, but I remember it being awful on a single target (obviously, like every scalar is) but as CE hits more targets it doesn't do any more healing yet each target is another change to spawn a sphere. This meant that healing, say, 15 people with CE would have 15x the chance to proc GotS than on only one target (not to mention that the damage portion also goes out as Eminence which also has its own chance to proc GotS). If I remember right it became efficient somewhere around 6 targets, but then up at 15 it would be a little crazy, more GotS-efficient than even ReM.

So yeah, Crane not so much, but Chi Explosion meteoring means it does actually do more GotS healing per target even if it doesn't do any more real healing per target.

So if I'm reading this right, all the multiple events per cast are from the extra GoTS spheres that are being spawned from ChiEx and instantly popped by the stacked raid. I.E. The secret to 80K HPS is to stack mastery gear for any fistweave fights?

[isRobin]

So if I'm reading this right, all the multiple events per cast are from the extra GoTS spheres that are being spawned from ChiEx and instantly popped by the stacked raid. I.E. The secret to 80K HPS is to stack mastery gear for any fistweave fights?

No the secret to 80k HPS is to stack haste, have the whole raid stacked, and only use chi explosion. If you stack mastery and it amounts to 13% of your healing then that's a poorly scaling stat.

[Deleted]

It's not Crane as much as Chi Explosion if it's hitting almost an entire raid. I didn't write down the CE coefficient and the post on the beta forum seems to have been wiped out along with the rest of the forum, but I remember it being awful on a single target (obviously, like every scalar is) but as CE hits more targets it doesn't do any more healing yet each target is another change to spawn a sphere.

The scalar for Chi Explosion (Crane) is 0.4 - even the scalar is better in Crane than Serpent .

For interest Eminence is 0.27 (self and Xuen) and 0.13 (statue). So a single ChiEx would be mastery%*0.4*(targets within 8") plus mastery%*0.27*5 plus mastery%*0.13*5. So for 10 targets and a mastery of 20% I think this works out to be 1.2 spheres on average? That about right?

[razlopp]

No the secret to 80k HPS is to stack haste, have the whole raid stacked, and only use chi explosion. If you stack mastery and it amounts to 13% of your healing then that's a poorly scaling stat.

If you go through the log, it's actually heavily bugged.

Read the event view and you can see that the same tick is being applied to the same person 2-4 times.

He has over 1000 orbs from Chiex, not to mention he/she has a lower gear level than others who have downed it.

Just comes down to the orbs being counted 2-4 times more than it should be. Should have some where around 300 orbs if it was counted correctly.

Hopefully this clears some things up

[elril]

If you go through the log, it's actually heavily bugged.

Read the event view and you can see that the same tick is being applied to the same person 2-4 times.

He has over 1000 orbs from Chiex, not to mention he/she has a lower gear level than others who have downed it.

Just comes down to the orbs being counted 2-4 times more than it should be. Should have some where around 300 orbs if it was counted correctly.

Hopefully this clears some things up

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, but if it's bugged, then it means that WCL is bugged in general in regards to ChiEx because I have similar parses too:

00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +5178
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +1554 (Multistrike)
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +*10355*
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +1553 (Multistrike)
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +5178
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +1553 (Multistrike)
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +*2876* (O: 231) (Multistrike)

warcraftlogs[dot]com/reports/pxa7vdAF1GBNZWj3#fight=34&type=healing&source=2&start=13997017&end=14115516&ability=173439 &view=events

The difference is this happens far more often in his logs- I have an average of 2 simultaneous events (including MS) whereas he's constantly hitting 4+. Also the HPS numbers I'm getting from WCL are more or less similar to Skada so it seems like WCL should be correct or they're both buggy.

[razlopp]

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, but if it's bugged, then it means that WCL is bugged in general in regards to ChiEx because I have similar parses too:

00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +5178
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +1554 (Multistrike)
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +*10355*
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +1553 (Multistrike)
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +5178
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +1553 (Multistrike)
00:00:45.596 Elrill Chi Explosion Flametotem +*2876* (O: 231) (Multistrike)

warcraftlogs[dot]com/reports/pxa7vdAF1GBNZWj3#fight=34&type=healing&source=2&start=13997017&end=14115516&ability=173439 &view=events

The difference is this happens far more often in his logs- I have an average of 2 simultaneous events (including MS) whereas he's constantly hitting 4+. Also the HPS numbers I'm getting from WCL are more or less similar to Skada so it seems like WCL should be correct or they're both buggy.

Here's why I say it's buggy,

Here is his log, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=17

Compared to a very similar Mistweaver that has, roughly the same amount of chiex casts, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=11

Now look at his healing breakdown, 50k+ is very respectable, but the other monk should not be outputting that much healing by casting 5 more Chiex.

See what I'm trying say, something is wrong with the log. If I'm missing something sure, but I mean the event view speaks for it self.

[elril]

Now look at his healing breakdown, 50k+ is very respectable, but the other monk should not be outputting that much healing by casting 5 more Chiex.

See what I'm trying say, something is wrong with the log. If I'm missing something sure, but I mean the event view speaks for it self.

Sorry, I did not mean to say you're wrong. I started this discussion because I was puzzled by the discrepancy. 51k HPS is a lot closer to what I'm pulling, and what other monks are reporting, although it seems like most of them did not do this raidwide stack strat. So far the possible explanations are:

1. High mastery leads to a ton of spheres
2. Some kind of positioning trick leading to a ton of spheres
3. Bug

If it's not a bug, I would love to see what I'm doing wrong because it would absolutely be the difference between another day of wipes and a kill.

[Deleted]

Mastery just doesn't lead to that many spheres. Base mastery adds 2 spheres on average to a Revival, hitting 20 people, and every 10% mastery should add about 2 more, I think. Chi Explosion (crane) has a scalar of less than half revival (0.4) so even if mastery was stacked to 30-40% and it hit 20 people we're talks 2-3 additional orbs or something at that order per Chi Explosion.

Its more likely the high haste and frequency of events is just bugging the log, at a guess.

[burmaben]

Mastery just doesn't lead to that many spheres. Base mastery adds 2 spheres on average to a Revival, hitting 20 people, and every 10% mastery should add about 2 more, I think. Chi Explosion (crane) has a scalar of less than half revival (0.4) so even if mastery was stacked to 30-40% and it hit 20 people we're talks 2-3 additional orbs or something at that order per Chi Explosion.

Its more likely the high haste and frequency of events is just bugging the log, at a guess.

Well, whatever he's doing it's extremely consistent though. All the other attempts I see he was doing 70k+

[Geodew]

Yeah I definitely hear what you're saying. I thought about that but still came down just on base regen. My rationale was that whilst critting on your multistrikes was always a positive interaction, I don't actually like the crit & spirit interaction for mistweavers - especially when they're pushing spirit so much - because of the gearing and relevant tuning. Eg. if we do competitive healing due in part to throughput stats we have more of because we can cut spirit, once they cut that interaction we would necessarily have less spare secondaries and do less healing (at relevant gear levels). If all healers could devalue spirit and take haste, as a stat people seem to want to take anyway, they would have to make the contribution so weak as to make it pointless. We've definitely strayed into personal-feeling-territory though!

I wasn't really talking on a personal feelings level, I was talking on a game design level. Multistrikes critting is a positive interation because that's how all the stats interact, which helps keep them balanced with each other. The new Spirit/Crit interaction is not a great interaction because they scale together more than they already do naturally (Crit Mana Tea is already more interaction than usual on live because of the infinite Mana Tea<->Mana cycle). This causes weird issues with stat weights where you may prefer certain stats at the beginning of an expansion but different stats at the end of the expansion (if there are no other changes over that time that affect the stat weights). The Haste/Spirit interaction that I described is a similar but opposite problem where Haste would get significantly worse than other stats as your gear improved and you got more Spirit.

It sounds like you're also afraid we'd hit the mana cap sooner or more easily, but a scalar like increasing mana regen by 0.5% of Haste would leave plenty of room for Spirit to be useful, as would increasing it by 1% of base regen. The only difference would be whether it scales with Spirit or not. The mana cap issue can be controlled by tuning the mana gain scalar. I think that's also largely a raid encounter design problem, not a class design problem, which is why the healing style in raid encounters changes over the course of an expansion.

To be fair I agree with you regarding MS being better than either haste or crit. Caveat being that haste does allow you to actually cast more of the RSKs you have/get, and Tiger Strikes also scales with haste (due to autoattack frequency) though less well than MS. The number of additional RSKs with MS is still actually quite small a the gear levels we're going to see in t17, and will strain our chi generation without using expensive casts like CJL or the 2pc and 4pc. So if I was collecting a set purely for using Crane I'd look for MS, haste and probably versatility and know it was better for PoM and similar to having crit for Chi Explosion.

Even with Chi Brew instead of Power Strikes, I have no trouble spending all my RSK charges with PoM. And if you're really doing only Crane stance there's no reason to not use CJL to ensure you don't cap stacks anyway. It's better to spend your Tea stacks using CJL for one GCD and drinking tea for 1.5s (about one GCD) than jabbing twice.

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With the buff to Chi Explosion. At 4 Chi, we are looking at a 1875.75% SP instant cast spell compared to our 1980% Uplift. The benefit of uplift is more SP and spread healing compared to Chi explosion which HEAVILY benefits from 2pc instant cast burst heal. Keep in mind only 1275.75 is actually being bursted while the other 600% comes from the 8 healing spheres.

It's looking like the CE buff may not include the spheres, which makes it far less impressive. Hype: deflated.

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1. High mastery leads to a ton of spheres

Mastery doesn't affect spheres that spawn from CE's 4-chi effect.

It's probably Detonate Chi at good times to make sure no healing is wasted, or melee/hunters were CONSTANTLY moving slightly to pick them up (but probably detonate because the orb's top healed are a shaman, a lock, and 3 mages). 33 CE casts is a max of 264 CE orbs. He has 256 CE orb heals (97% pickup), with only 13% overheal on all of the orbs except the 8 that missed people (probably most of the final 8 that he spawned plus maybe a couple here and there). That's insanely low overheal on the orbs.

The other log had 112/224 CE orbs used (50% pickup).

[elril]

Mastery doesn't affect spheres that spawn from CE's 4-chi effect.

It's probably Detonate Chi at good times to make sure no healing is wasted, or melee/hunters were CONSTANTLY moving slightly to pick them up (but probably detonate because the orb's top healed are a shaman, a lock, and 3 mages). 33 CE casts is a max of 264 CE orbs. He has 256 CE orb heals (97% pickup), with only 13% overheal on all of the orbs except the 8 that missed people (probably most of the final 8 that he spawned plus maybe a couple here and there). That's insanely low overheal on the orbs.

The other log had 112/224 CE orbs used (50% pickup).

Great, this cleared a lot of things up!

I just tested this at the dummy. Detonate Chi actually causes the ChiEx spheres to be credited as Gift of the Serpent in the combat log, which makes them indistinguishable from the normal spheres- or, more likely it has the same name but different spell ID. You have to run over them for them to be credited as Chi Explosion in the log.

So the logs make sense now. He's somehow able to have an insane pickup rate of spheres due to positioning, or smart raid members, or both. Thanks all!

[Monkioh]

From my testing, it did not look like the orbs spawned by Chi Explosion received the healing buff. They were healing the same as normal orbs.