[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Floopa]

got mythic IG

so happy

omg it feels so good

something i've been wondering about, is it time we can maybe start using frostwolf over shadowmoon?

[Deleted]

Coined Intuition's Gift (M) , IMA SO HAPPY


#2setclub



edit: rofl floopa i posted this comment BEFORE reading yours :P GRATZ BRO

With losing so much spirit I doubt I'm gonna drop Shadowmoon ever...
And yeah the trinket feels AMAZING.. can't wait for 4set

[Nokcihc]

I personally haven't used Shadowmoon since early BRF. Never really had an issue with my mana. At the worst I'm just going oom at the end of the fight.

[Piffweaver]

got mythic IG

so happy

omg it feels so good

something i've been wondering about, is it time we can maybe start using frostwolf over shadowmoon?

I forget the exact numbers but if I remeber correctly shadow moon only gains like ~25k mana over a 5 min fight. I'm sitting at ~50% ms when frostwolf procs... I felt it was worth the extra one rjdubs cast, but I was curious on this myself, I literally just switched before leaving on vacation.. Haven't really got to see it in raid yet! And gratz, I'm jealous as hell

[Floopa]

a moonie in our raid got the boe belt w/ leech + socket and im trying to steal it over a rogue LMAO im such a loto whore

#722ilvlrepresent lol

[Staryu]

got mythic IG

so happy

omg it feels so good

something i've been wondering about, is it time we can maybe start using frostwolf over shadowmoon?

Hmm, I switched to Frostwolf awhile ago in BRF. Once I was at like 2k+ spirit I dropped Shadowmoon. O.o

[Deleted]

Is there anyone that can explain to me the talk about the new stat weights? Should we go for MS>Haste instead of MS>Crit now, to take advantage os the awesome 4-set?

[Deleted]

I really dunno how people could consider phylactery bis on a healer who's spells cost twice as much. I've been told I'm wrong but I guess I need diagrams or something to explain how it isn't half value for us given the cost of each cast.

If it reduces other healers spells by 20%, and ours by 10%. How is it bis

And since we're double resource based, it's only reducing the cost of some of our spells? Chi consumers are unnafected. Unlike other healers who get X percent off every cast. We're getting half of X% on only SOME of our casts. Don't get it. Need diagrams

"But it lets you afford more chi generators and use more uplifts as a result, and RJW"..... Hmm no. Still able to do everything I need when I need to. Even using shielding talisman (685) + leech it's impossible to oom. So what does phyl do except reduce mana tea downtime.

The mana reduction just seems entirely inconsequential in a bursty damage environment. IG on the other hand....

[Geodew]

60k burst as a MW is pretty doable. I was getting into the low 80s at times during BRF. With an int pot and a good combo with some lucky crits/multistrikes, you can do 60k burst pretty easy. It just isn't sustainable.

Counting Leech, I was doing 96k overall on some Council attempts. You just need people to be taking enough damage

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Is there anyone that can explain to me the talk about the new stat weights? Should we go for MS>Haste instead of MS>Crit now, to take advantage os the awesome 4-set?

Why? Unless I'm missing something, Haste's value went up by only like 10% this tier, which is then countered by diminishing returns from all the mandatory Haste on our BiS. (There are just a lot of Haste items, perhaps intentionally so healers can spend all their mana from higher Spirit.)

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I really dunno how people could consider phylactery bis on a healer who's spells cost twice as much. I've been told I'm wrong but I guess I need diagrams or something to explain how it isn't half value for us given the cost of each cast.

If it reduces other healers spells by 20%, and ours by 10%. How is it bis

And since we're double resource based, it's only reducing the cost of some of our spells? Chi consumers are unnafected. Unlike other healers who get X percent off every cast. We're getting half of X% on only SOME of our casts. Don't get it. Need diagrams

I mean, it's not like I didn't already math it out. But I see you're just having problems intuitively grasping why it's even decent. I'll try to put it in layman's terms, so to speak.

-Percentage reduction is completely irrelevant. If you're casting spells every GCD, and the trinket reduces mana cost by X, then as long as the mana cost of the spell is greater than X, regardless of the cost of the spell, you effectively gain X mana per cast. GCDs have a fixed duration, so gaining X mana per GCD can be equated to a certain amount of MP5 and thus Spirit. The cost of your spells doesn't enter the equation anywhere. (Yes, the cost of one SooM tick is larger than the reduction on the Mythic trinket.)

-This trinket is less Spirit for Mistweaver specifically because we cast so many non-mana-cost spells. However, our Spirit stat weight is so high that it counters this effect, making it about as good for us as it is for other healers.

-However, many people pass Phylactery to other healers first because BRF trinkets are still quite strong in comparison. In other words, getting Mythic Phylactery to replace Mythic Autoclave is like replacing an A+ ilvl 700 trinket with a C+ ilvl 730 trinket. It's only like 5-10% better, when it "should be" ~35% better if it were on par with Mythic Autoclave. That is, if you could make an ilvl 730 Autoclave, it would be about 35% stronger than the ilvl 700 Autoclave, but Phylactery is much weaker than that.

[Supliftz]

It's not that demonic phylactary is bad. It's just IG is better, so that means you should have a lower prio on the trinket.

[Takure]

Counting Leech, I was doing 96k overall on some Council attempts. You just need people to be taking enough damage

They talking about dps...

[Buildapanda]

finally broke into mythic and killed hellfire. I found chi explosion and just fistweaving was the way to go on that fight, I had a disc on my side so there really wasn't big spikes. It definitely helped smooth out the transition targets. Ring of peace can be used on engineers

[Geodew]

They talking about dps...

Oh lol. I remember on-pull DPS on Blast Furnace being pretty high too with potions and trinket procs and shit. With PoM you're basically spamming RSK for quite a while, especially with the Multistrike proc. I think I spiked up to 45-50k back then so I'm sure you could do better with better gear. Add 30 item levels and you're looking at 55-60k without too much difficulty, so it sounds doable if you get lucky with procs, crits, and multistrikes. Then again, there aren't any good DPS trinkets this tier :-/

[Floopa]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...90&end=2124501

on fel lord i was able to burst 70-80k in places but it's hard to sustain it w/o xuen

i wish xuen did triple/quadruple dps on a single target ... it might be competitive then :/

[Geodew]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...90&end=2124501

on fel lord i was able to burst 70-80k in places but it's hard to sustain it w/o xuen

i wish xuen did triple/quadruple dps on a single target ... it might be competitive then :/

May as well just make him do X DPS split between all targets hit or something.

Actually, I think they WANT him to be better for cleave to make talent swapping more interesting. He's probably just flat-out tuned too low.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...90&end=2124501

on fel lord i was able to burst 70-80k in places but it's hard to sustain it w/o xuen

i wish xuen did triple/quadruple dps on a single target ... it might be competitive then :/

Xuen should, I've never seen him do more than maybe 10% of my healing? Compared to RJW or even Celerity Chi Torp that's awful. He does provide damage though, I think probably the best thing for him would be to have his duration and damage squeezed into 20 seconds.

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May as well just make him do X DPS split between all targets hit or something.

Actually, I think they WANT him to be better for cleave to make talent swapping more interesting. He's probably just flat-out tuned too low.

That's an okay thought for DPS, for healing the fact that 3 targets are clumped together is now irrelevant. Unless they decided to significantly reduce the mana cost of RJW/SCK in Crane so that using it to take advantage of multiple targets in Crane is a potential strategy, I don't think it's consistent with the other talents in the tier.

[simonq]

I know this is asking a lot of you Geodew, but could you do approximate stat weights in a world (pvp) where:

• 50% weaker crits and multistrike bonuses (150% total for crit, and 1 chance instead of 2 for multi)
• 3 players in the party (uplift never used, Pool of Mist probably never worth it)
• Chi explosion used for above reason
• All spirit is considered "to mana cap" because most of the healing is with Surging Mists and burns through mana
• Chi wave or zen sphere is used instead of chi burst for advantage of being instant cast
• Chi torpedo is expected to hit 1 person (yourself) only. maybe xuen is better in this situation?

I'm most interested in how this would affect the stat weights of crit and mastery. I believe Surging Mist has a 1.0 mastery proc rating, which is high(?) and Surging is used a lot in pvp. Crit would still be valuable for the extra mana tea that is desperately needed, but the actual crit heals are 3/4 as strong as pve crit heals. I'm assuming multistrike tanks through the floor in usefulness. Haste is decent but all haste is considered "to mana cap" because of the mana situation. No set bonuses from PvE or legendary ring etc to worry about. No tertiary stats

[borisshayo]

I really dunno how people could consider phylactery bis on a healer who's spells cost twice as much. I've been told I'm wrong but I guess I need diagrams or something to explain how it isn't half value for us given the cost of each cast.

If it reduces other healers spells by 20%, and ours by 10%. How is it bis

And since we're double resource based, it's only reducing the cost of some of our spells? Chi consumers are unnafected. Unlike other healers who get X percent off every cast. We're getting half of X% on only SOME of our casts. Don't get it. Need diagrams

"But it lets you afford more chi generators and use more uplifts as a result, and RJW"..... Hmm no. Still able to do everything I need when I need to. Even using shielding talisman (685) + leech it's impossible to oom. So what does phyl do except reduce mana tea downtime.

The mana reduction just seems entirely inconsequential in a bursty damage environment. IG on the other hand....

The mana cost of our spells doesn't matter. If you cast 100 spells you'll save 60k mana or so regardless of how much mana those spells cost. The only way it would be relevant is if we couldn't convert that 60k mana into healing as efficiently as other healers, eg we can't cast as much spells with 60k mana because ours are more expensive. But that's not the case either because the effective mana cost of our spells is reduced through mana tea and they also allow us to cast uplift.

The real problem with phylactry ofcourse is just that it doesn't do anything on a lot of our gcds which are spent on abilities that don't cost any mana, and it doesn't increase your mana tea value like passive spirit does.

[Geodew]

I know this is asking a lot of you Geodew, but could you do approximate stat weights in a world (pvp) where:

• 50% weaker crits and multistrike bonuses (150% total for crit, and 1 chance instead of 2 for multi)
• 3 players in the party (uplift never used, Pool of Mist probably never worth it)
• Chi explosion used for above reason
• All spirit is considered "to mana cap" because most of the healing is with Surging Mists and burns through mana
• Chi wave or zen sphere is used instead of chi burst for advantage of being instant cast
• Chi torpedo is expected to hit 1 person (yourself) only. maybe xuen is better in this situation?

I'm most interested in how this would affect the stat weights of crit and mastery. Crit would still be valuable for the extra mana tea that is desperately needed, but the actual crit heals are 3/4 as strong as pve crit heals. I'm assuming multistrike tanks through the floor in usefulness. Haste is decent but all haste is considered "to mana cap" because of the mana situation. No set bonuses from PvE or legendary ring etc to worry about. No tertiary stats

The thing about stat weights is that I have to make a lot of estimations, and I wouldn't feel confident about making estimations when I don't even play that game mode. It would also take me probably 10-15 hours. I could make a stat priority guess, though, based on your post... Spirit > Int >>> Vers >> Haste > Crit > Multistrike > Mastery. Mastery could actually be almost as good as Haste though depending on pickup rate and typical overheal, but I'm guessing GotS gets mostly ignored in PvP for the sake of positioning.

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Xuen should, I've never seen him do more than maybe 10% of my healing? Compared to RJW or even Celerity Chi Torp that's awful. He does provide damage though, I think probably the best thing for him would be to have his duration and damage squeezed into 20 seconds.

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That's an okay thought for DPS, for healing the fact that 3 targets are clumped together is now irrelevant. Unless they decided to significantly reduce the mana cost of RJW/SCK in Crane so that using it to take advantage of multiple targets in Crane is a potential strategy, I don't think it's consistent with the other talents in the tier.

I think 10% is giving him too much credit lol. Maybe more like 3-4%? Anyway, don't forget that you'd have done SCK instead of RJW/CT so the comparison isn't that simple. However, you could easily see that Xuen does very little damage, so I didn't even bother theorycrafting it yet. Maybe we should just to show Blizz or something. It would be useful to have that already done if they buff him.

[cqwrteur]

I know this is asking a lot of you Geodew, but could you do approximate stat weights in a world (pvp) where:

• 50% weaker crits and multistrike bonuses (150% total for crit, and 1 chance instead of 2 for multi)
• 3 players in the party (uplift never used, Pool of Mist probably never worth it)
• Chi explosion used for above reason
• All spirit is considered "to mana cap" because most of the healing is with Surging Mists and burns through mana
• Chi wave or zen sphere is used instead of chi burst for advantage of being instant cast
• Chi torpedo is expected to hit 1 person (yourself) only. maybe xuen is better in this situation?

I'm most interested in how this would affect the stat weights of crit and mastery. I believe Surging Mist has a 1.0 mastery proc rating, which is high(?) and Surging is used a lot in pvp. Crit would still be valuable for the extra mana tea that is desperately needed, but the actual crit heals are 3/4 as strong as pve crit heals. I'm assuming multistrike tanks through the floor in usefulness. Haste is decent but all haste is considered "to mana cap" because of the mana situation. No set bonuses from PvE or legendary ring etc to worry about. No tertiary stats

If you are talking about pvp in Arenas, I would like to say we don't know. There are lots of things that need be done.

If your pvp is World PVP or large battlegrounds such as AV, IOC, Ashran, I think I know about many things. So I am just talking about World PVP and Large Battlegrounds not Arenas or Rated-BG.
[*]50% weaker crits and multistrike bonuses (150% total for crit, and 1 chance instead of 2 for multi)

However. There is another crucial reason that multistrike is more important than you think.
[*]3 players in the party (uplift never used, Pool of Mist probably never worth it)
No. You have to use uplift just as PVE. You don't have other raid healing spells. You should choose Pool of Mist if you try to heal in World PVP.
[*]Chi explosion used for above reason
Don't use CE in World PVP. It's terrible just as PVE.[*]All spirit is considered "to mana cap" because most of the healing is with Surging Mists and burns through mana

Surging mist doesn't burn through your mana. Just surging-surging-uplift and not channeling soothing-mist will make you comfort if your spirit is low.
[*]Chi wave or zen sphere is used instead of chi burst for advantage of being instant cast

No. You should use Chi Burst. Chi wave and zen sphere are all terrible after 5.4 in PVE and World PVP.
[*]Chi torpedo is expected to hit 1 person (yourself) only. maybe xuen is better in this situation?

No. You should use RJW. MWs don't have enough throughput if you don't fuck your mana by RJW.