[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Supliftz]

i can understand the reasoning but it doesn't make sense to me. geodew says we have more haste on our gear as standard due to itemisation, this very fact means we'll need more spirit to sustain higher RJW use. if RJW is used every 5.7 sec during feast of souls that means you need to use it 11 times (230k~ mana), if we have haste and it now has a 4.5~ sec duration we then need to use it 15 times during feast of souls (more mana spent).

if anything as we increase our haste, our spirit requirement should increase as well right?

If you wanted 100% uptime that would be correct.

...So yes, spirit with more gear on gorefiend/tyrant/mythic? archi/etcetcetc is actually a boon lol.

[Oziemaster]

Do you guys just fistweave on Xhul'horac? Maybe in a larger group of like 20+ people I could heal pretty well. But 20 and under I think it's a fistweaving fight.

[Totaltotemic]

Do you guys just fistweave on Xhul'horac? Maybe in a larger group of like 20+ people I could heal pretty well. But 20 and under I think it's a fistweaving fight.

We one-shot it tonight and I was utterly shocked at how little damage is going on in the fight. You could probably 2 heal with 20 people until the final phase if you wanted, so yeah fistweaving seems like a good idea for most of it.

Also I got the heroic leech trinket. It performed a lot worse on Mannoroth than it did on Tyrant, but oddly the same fights where it wouldn't do well at the same fights where a random proc and high spirit are probably also just going to be wasted.

As for the Spirit topic, who cares what the exact value of Spirit is? As long as it's more than any other secondary stat, you will want it on all jewelry. After that, you're talking about trinkets which are never dealing with exchanging flat amounts of stats for other flat amounts of stats anyways. I can't really think of a situation where I would care if Spirit is 2x the value of Crit or 3x the value of Crit.

[Deleted]

Also I got the heroic leech trinket. It performed a lot worse on Mannoroth than it did on Tyrant,...

Well, it has to perform good on tyrant, because u have almost no overheal in p2, because although u can´t heal up >X% the heal is absorbed and tracked...so u have almost max HPS leeding to max. Leech in the raid with the Leech also producing no overheal.

[Volibear]

I coined the fucking vers/Mastery boots this week, I would've preferred gold

[Deleted]

Hello, I am a 697 ilvl mistweaver and my guild has progressed 6/13 in hellfire hc. I usually do 40k to 50k HPs but I feel that I should do better because I am behind our rshami and rdruid most of the time.

1. What do I do if I have 4 Chi and there is nothing to heal and no chance to go into melee? Should I waste some chi on a useless uplift and build some more or should I cast renewing mists even if the chi generation is wasted? This happens quite often.
2. Should I cast RJW before a high damage Phase even if I have 4 Chi or uplift and then RJW?
3. I am assigned as the dispeller at Shadow Lord Iskar but we have problems in the third air phase and I get blamed for it. Our strategy is that the tank has the eye, kicks and then throws the eye to me. Then I dispel and have a two seconds window to throw the eye back. This does not work properly even though I have a macro for the throw. The timeframe is too short. In every video that I saw this was a nonissue. Is our strategy sound or is the problem relly with me?

[Deleted]

Hello, I am a 697 ilvl mistweaver and my guild has progressed 6/13 in hellfire hc. I usually do 40k to 50k HPs but I feel that I should do better because I am behind our rshami and rdruid most of the time.

1. What do I do if I have 4 Chi and there is nothing to heal and no chance to go into melee? Should I waste some chi on a useless uplift and build some more or should I cast renewing mists even if the chi generation is wasted? This happens quite often.
2. Should I cast RJW before a high damage Phase even if I have 4 Chi or uplift and then RJW?
3. I am assigned as the dispeller at Shadow Lord Iskar but we have problems in the third air phase and I get blamed for it. Our strategy is that the tank has the eye, kicks and then throws the eye to me. Then I dispel and have a two seconds window to throw the eye back. This does not work properly even though I have a macro for the throw. The timeframe is too short. In every video that I saw this was a nonissue. Is our strategy sound or is the problem relly with me?

1) There is no fight that mechanically stops you from being in meele, some punish generally with spread mechanics that effect melee but generally you should be chilling with the boss. If you are capped i generally just enveloping a tank or uplift randomly and spread more rems. Wasting chi if there is literally no damage to get more rems out isn't a huge deal.

2) Depends how good you can time the ability, if you can have the uplift go off just as the first tick of damage happens then RJW thats perfect. Again wasting a chi or two RJWing before it hits isn't actually a huge deal as long as you're capped going into the high damage.

3) You can both interrupt and dispel, hold onto it for longer than 2 seconds and do both, then throw to the tank.

[Raikan]

Just killed Heroic Archimonde last night and I have to agree with the earlier sentiments that the third phase really sucks for mistweaver. I don't have leech trinket or any tier pieces yet (I'm jealous of you all) and it seems like there's very little that I'm able to do in that last phase. Overall my healing throughout the fight was fine. Phase 1 and 2 are good because we can stand in melee and just spam RJW but in phase 3 I'm lucky if I'm in range of 2-3 people at any given time. We did the sacrifice strat so we pushed the entire 25% phase in just over 2 minutes. I can imagine now that that strat is being nerfed that we will see even worse numbers in that phase. Hopefully 4pc can make up for that overall.

As for the spirit debate I have to agree with supliftz that spirit will be vital going into this tier. On Gorefiend we split him and had 4 healers so we were underhealing significantly in the beginning and it was nearly impossible for me to keep mana. I realize this may be an extreme example but even on later fights I don't think its as much about burst as geodew is arguing but the longevity of the fight. We're required to keep rjw up longer and more often this tier due to the way damage works.

[Servasus]

Just got the heroic leech trinket last night and went and tested it in an LFR quickly just to see roughly how much it was valued at. On kromog, with the dps obviously being much lower because of LFR, and less damage going out, it still added about 1.8M leech healing to the raid, while I sustained 53k hps and did 18.8M healing overall on Kromog.

I can imagine that with a much larger period of time where people are not sitting at 100% health and with the higher dps of mythic raiders, this trinket is going to absolutely destroy on some fights in HFC. I also like that it's not THAT much of a spirit loss from Elementalist's Shielding Talisman, because I love me some RJW spam.

When I try it out on normal tonight I'll keep track of how good it is, and then when we do heroic wednesday and thursday, I'll let you guys know what I think. So far, though, the potential is amazing.

Oh, and just a quick question before I leave, do any of you know how the leech trinket works in synergy when more than one healer is using it? Does everyone's leech trinket add to the same buff? Seperate buffs? Are there diminishing returns? I noticed when I let a tank dummy beat on me and spam healed myself, the leech would fluctuate before going up. Like it would go to 20% and then down to 18% and then up to 21% and then down to 19% and then up to 25% etc etc. Not sure what was causing the fluctuation. I imagine it's some sort of invisible DR mechanic that blizz put in to keep us from stacking 100% leech onto people.

[stewiefied]

I'm not a mythic raider but I see what Geodew is saying. For an extreme example say you double your healing and halve your mana. You'll still do the same healing just with less casts. The added benefit and less "risk" comes from doing the same healing as two rjws in the time of one rjw. If you have to keep rjw up 100% you have no option for burstier healing at the cost of more mana. The more healing you can pump out in shorter amount of time the more you can chose when to do all the healing.

The stat weights just show how much power stats you need to make up for the lost mana. I just don't see how the length of time you can keep rjw matters more than how much overall healing it can pump out in the course of a fight. If those 11 rjws do more healing than the 15, why would you want to have to cast rjw 4 more times?

[Servasus]

I'm not a mythic raider but I see what Geodew is saying. For an extreme example say you double your healing and halve your mana. You'll still do the same healing just with less casts. The added benefit and less "risk" comes from doing the same healing as two rjws in the time of one rjw. If you have to keep rjw up 100% you have no option for burstier healing at the cost of more mana. The more healing you can pump out in shorter amount of time the more you can chose when to do all the healing.

The stat weights just show how much power stats you need to make up for the lost mana. I just don't see how the length of time you can keep rjw matters more than how much overall healing it can pump out in the course of a fight. If those 11 rjws do more healing than the 15, why would you want to have to cast rjw 4 more times?

Probably has something to do with being human, and also that every other raider in your group is also human, mistakes are made, and, especially during progression, spirit becomes much heavier of a stat because it allows for more "fuck ups" to happen without ooming. Both on the healer's side and the people getting healed by the healer.

Being a mythic raider and being a top parser doesn't mean you're a machine and will play perfectly every time. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has days where they aren't feeling well and might under-preform. Spirit allows some leeway in that respect.

So while, yes, mathematically, you're correct, the actual practice doesn't always play out that way. Both ways are valid, but I still think spirit wins out during progression and especially on fights like Gorefiend.

[Totaltotemic]

By the way, specifics on the Leech trinket for anyone that doesn't get how it works:

The Leech value from the buff is just a rolling value. For example, if your first heal gives 100 Leech, 10 seconds later however much the buff is up to drops by 100, so it is only giving you Leech for effective healing done in the last 10 seconds.

You can check the total healing of Leech in Warcraft Logs by going to Healing --> Healing by ability --> Leech for the entire raid. This will also include any other source of leech like gear, so try to do a fight one time without the trinket and one time with it to get a good understanding of how much natural Leech your raid has.

The values of Leech healing each person are going to be pretty small over the course of the fight, but they tend to add up to anywhere between 15-25% of your healing done once you take out the Leech gear from other players.

[Piffweaver]

I'm not a mythic raider but I see what Geodew is saying. For an extreme example say you double your healing and halve your mana. You'll still do the same healing just with less casts. The added benefit and less "risk" comes from doing the same healing as two rjws in the time of one rjw. If you have to keep rjw up 100% you have no option for burstier healing at the cost of more mana. The more healing you can pump out in shorter amount of time the more you can chose when to do all the healing.

The stat weights just show how much power stats you need to make up for the lost mana. I just don't see how the length of time you can keep rjw matters more than how much overall healing it can pump out in the course of a fight. If those 11 rjws do more healing than the 15, why would you want to have to cast rjw 4 more times?

Yeah I definitely get the point. Geodew for pres of course, he's the best, but like it's been stated before, before we get mythic jewelry/mythic hfc trinkets are spirit levels are going to be too low to sustain rjw on the heal intensive fights. I definitely want an IG to play around with, but I can't imagine myself using that over my mwf AVA(0/4tier I'll swap to ES for extend life) on any fight where damage is intense... AT LEAST until I'm decked out in mythic jewelry

[Spotnick]

Do you guys just fistweave on Xhul'horac? Maybe in a larger group of like 20+ people I could heal pretty well. But 20 and under I think it's a fistweaving fight.

Even I, who is known for saying fistweaving is a waste of time at times, fistweave until the shadow phase begins.. tells you how there was nothing to do there.

That and stunning imps in melee.

---

Geodew, your stat weights confuse me at times.. the BIS list is not changing, but this basically tells me that I should gem/enchant haste if I'm above the spirit cap of I'm reading this wrong? /confused

This is why I ask because it doesn't make sense or I'm just reading it wrong.

---

Been doing the fights on my monk and disc (because our disc priest can't make it right now), but say the amount of fights where you can beat a disc priest is sadly very low, it's going to be another one of those tier with nothing to heal in farming

[Deleted]

does somebody know if 4part Ren M procced from RSK apply Extended life ( 2 part ) ? Thks

[Geodew]

I'm pretty positive I'm right; I probably just didn't explain well enough. I'll try again later when I have time to type out responses.

[Supliftz]

does somebody know if 4part Ren M procced from RSK apply Extended life ( 2 part ) ? Thks

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post34629431

I'm not a mythic raider but I see what Geodew is saying. For an extreme example say you double your healing and halve your mana. You'll still do the same healing just with less casts. The added benefit and less "risk" comes from doing the same healing as two rjws in the time of one rjw. If you have to keep rjw up 100% you have no option for burstier healing at the cost of more mana. The more healing you can pump out in shorter amount of time the more you can chose when to do all the healing.

The stat weights just show how much power stats you need to make up for the lost mana. I just don't see how the length of time you can keep rjw matters more than how much overall healing it can pump out in the course of a fight. If those 11 rjws do more healing than the 15, why would you want to have to cast rjw 4 more times?

If you wanted to keep up 100% uptime of RJW during feasts of souls with 2k spirit, you're forced into playing extremely conservative in p1 and not healing up the adds that waste dps, and rely on ReM/Expel/Power strikes procs on top of little surging uses to have enough mana to have 100% uptime during the feasts. Now when you finally get to feast of souls with as much mana as possible, you'll be forced into drinking mana tea mid phase because your passive regen is much lower without 2700 spirit.

Now with 2700 spirit you can actually always play aggressively with your mana on this encounter. Always be healing the adds up during your time in the stomach, making p1 healing easier for your other healers, and increasing the damage done to the boss. You'll also be able to always be casting during the heavy damage phase without worrying about if you'll have enough mana to always be healing, on top of having enough mana to go into the next phase of souls phase. This is one the more 'burstier' advantages of having 2700 spirit.

Not running 2700 spirit on progression on encounters like this is just asking for trouble, regardless if IG says it's a 'minor hps increase at the heroic level'. Playing perfectly on progression is something you should not be counting on at any point. I'll also say this again, this only matters during early progress when we don't have mythic jewellery that have 200 spirit each. If you had these jewellery right now, there would be question to what trinket you should be using.

Also I keep saying this point about being 'risky' by going heavy spirit on fights with real damage. When I look at other healer classes in history, it's always been recommended to run higher amounts of spirit on prog until it was proven you can didn't need that much spirit. Saying higher spirit is risky is just backwards thinking in my mind.

[Sonrisa]

Hello, I am a 697 ilvl mistweaver and my guild has progressed 6/13 in hellfire hc. I usually do 40k to 50k HPs but I feel that I should do better because I am behind our rshami and rdruid most of the time.

1. What do I do if I have 4 Chi and there is nothing to heal and no chance to go into melee? Should I waste some chi on a useless uplift and build some more or should I cast renewing mists even if the chi generation is wasted? This happens quite often.
2. Should I cast RJW before a high damage Phase even if I have 4 Chi or uplift and then RJW?
3. I am assigned as the dispeller at Shadow Lord Iskar but we have problems in the third air phase and I get blamed for it. Our strategy is that the tank has the eye, kicks and then throws the eye to me. Then I dispel and have a two seconds window to throw the eye back. This does not work properly even though I have a macro for the throw. The timeframe is too short. In every video that I saw this was a nonissue. Is our strategy sound or is the problem relly with me?

1. Usually you just try to snipe with uplift and overheal anyway or enveloping a tank if there won't be any raid damage whatsoever.
2. Depends if you can wait for the RJW or not. You should try not to waste chi but sometimes it can't be avoided, especially on scenarios when you need to burst heal very hard.
3. Either your tank or you is being slow, I've done it on both normal and heroic and have 4 seconds to spare after dispel to give it back to the tank.

[Spotnick]

So.. Iron Reaver Mythic.. 30% healing done from Extend Life and... Xuen?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=4

[Sherebear]

Extend Life is absolutely insane what the actual fuck.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...p#type=healing