[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Oziemaster]

I probably would've done better if I was given a chance to be in melee to RJW and fistweave for mana tea.

[Floopa]

I probably would've done better if I was given a chance to be in melee to RJW and fistweave for mana tea.

definitely. tell your raid leader he's a moron for not letting you in melee range. it's a perk we should use at every opportunity tbh.

[Deleted]

Maybe it's me not having a larger group to RJW on or my guild not allowing me in melee to fistweave for mana tea/RJW. But, our resto druid just wrecks me on this fight every time. I purposely didn't use RJW until near the end of the fight because I need to save my mana for last phase since no fistweaving and not many ranged stacked. I used cocoon on debuffed targets to heal them out of the debuff if it wasn't needed for tanks or any other super low people. So I used a good amount of surging/enveloping. For Font of Corruption since everyone's HP was reduced I felt like I was overhealing so much and just wasting mana that I just uplifted/surging and used RJW I think 1 or 2 times. The last phase is when I started spamming RJW. Yet, our resto druid is just pumping out the heals while I have to lay back or else I go oom. I have T17 4 set + normal leech trinket + Elementalist shielding talisman. Any help would be appreciated https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&type=summary

Basically you could be better at enveloping debuffs in p1 and you're hugely underusing expel harm, it's cheap chi and lets you cast RJW more times in a fight but the majority of the reason is that overhealing doesn't count in P2 of the fight so it's impossible to get actual healing numbers. If you filter your log to P1 and P3 you'll see you and the resto druid are a lot closer, and he gains the majority in P2, no way around this but just be aware you'll never get accurate numbers. The 4 set helps in P1 a bit with debuffs but you can do close to the same just spam enveloping them.

[Floopa]

if you want to cheese ranks on velhari pick up the archimonde trinket because AFAIK soothing mist healing + it's splash (from the trinket) counts as 100% effective in p2.

it was like this on ptr with regards to logs, not sure if anything changed because i dont have said trinket

[Volibear]

if you want to cheese ranks on velhari pick up the archimonde trinket because AFAIK soothing mist healing + it's splash (from the trinket) counts as 100% effective in p2.

it was like this on ptr with regards to logs, not sure if anything changed because i dont have said trinket

If that's the case, I imagine Shamans will be cheesing ranks hardcore with HTT at capped 20% HP

[borisshayo]

Maybe it's me not having a larger group to RJW on or my guild not allowing me in melee to fistweave for mana tea/RJW. But, our resto druid just wrecks me on this fight every time. I purposely didn't use RJW until near the end of the fight because I need to save my mana for last phase since no fistweaving and not many ranged stacked. I used cocoon on debuffed targets to heal them out of the debuff if it wasn't needed for tanks or any other super low people. So I used a good amount of surging/enveloping. For Font of Corruption since everyone's HP was reduced I felt like I was overhealing so much and just wasting mana that I just uplifted/surging and used RJW I think 1 or 2 times. The last phase is when I started spamming RJW. Yet, our resto druid is just pumping out the heals while I have to lay back or else I go oom. I have T17 4 set + normal leech trinket + Elementalist shielding talisman. Any help would be appreciated https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&type=summary

Healing meters are broken on this fight. I'm 99% certain it counts effective overhealing in phase 2 when you can't heal past a certain hp threshhold as actual healing. If you want to pad meters on this fight just spam uplift and rjw fulltime in phase 2. If you want to actually be useful just heal the touch of harm targets and do a bit of raid healing when the edict comes in.

Ps: this is why disc priests are super overpowered on this fight eventhough they look like shit on the meters. They're the only healers who can effectively do anything at all in P2. I wouldn't be surprised to see guilds running double disc depending on how big of a deal the healing limit will be in P3

[Deleted]

On Velhari its kinda stupid to hear people saying this fight takes a lot of healing, so the assumption is you stack healers, and just overheal p2 for nothing and the phase takes a minute longer. Yes, resto shamans just pump that HPS and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Spotnick]

On Velhari its kinda stupid to hear people saying this fight takes a lot of healing, so the assumption is you stack healers, and just overheal p2 for nothing and the phase takes a minute longer. Yes, resto shamans just pump that HPS and there's nothing you can do about it.

As long as you kill the boss, who cares who's doing more hps?

It's sure not our mastery that is going to help on that might.. nobody can move.

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definitely. tell your raid leader he's a moron for not letting you in melee range. it's a perk we should use at every opportunity tbh.

I would say the perk is more that you can be anywhere you won't not explicitly in melee. However his raid leader will feel like an idiot the day he'll wipe at 0.3% and would have been a kill with the melee hits from a mistweaver.. not even fistweaving, just regular melee hits.

[Deleted]

Healing meters are broken on this fight. I'm 99% certain it counts effective overhealing in phase 2 when you can't heal past a certain hp threshhold as actual healing. If you want to pad meters on this fight just spam uplift and rjw fulltime in phase 2. If you want to actually be useful just heal the touch of harm targets and do a bit of raid healing when the edict comes in.

Ps: this is why disc priests are super overpowered on this fight eventhough they look like shit on the meters. They're the only healers who can effectively do anything at all in P2. I wouldn't be surprised to see guilds running double disc depending on how big of a deal the healing limit will be in P3

I had the same thought about disc. Maybe have one specced to clarity

[Geodew]

The point i'm making only applies to trinket selection on a few encounters.

Ok, think that was just a misunderstanding

i can understand the reasoning but it doesn't make sense to me. geodew says we have more haste on our gear as standard due to itemisation, this very fact means we'll need more spirit to sustain higher RJW use. if RJW is used every 5.7 sec during feast of souls that means you need to use it 11 times (230k~ mana), if we have haste and it now has a 4.5~ sec duration we then need to use it 15 times during feast of souls (more mana spent).
if anything as we increase our haste, our spirit requirement should increase as well right?

What are you replacing those gcds with in feast of souls? With progression level of spirit (~2000 with IG), you'll simply run out of mana during the phase and be forced to drink mana tea, or cut gcds of RJW. Please don't say surging mist will replace those rjw gcds. This is reality. It's all well and good to say "replacing the rjw gcd with soothing surg is fine" but you simply can't be doing that when your raid is dying. You'll need 100% uptime of rjw to survive that phase.

I think Suplift is speaking in terms of practicality and I was speaking in terms of theory. Floopa, your numbers are a bit off (4.5s cd on RJW requires 33.33% Haste, which we won't get to, more like 17-20%), but anyway, I think you guys just misunderstand what I'm getting at (talking past each other).

-->In theory, if you could trade your 100% RJW uptime during Feast of Souls down to 90% RJW uptime and +200% to all healing including RJW, you would obviously do that. There is nothing special about RJW except that it does a lot of healing really fast for a lot of mana. In other words, it's not like it's ReM where you NEED to cast it or you can't Uplift. The stat weights show exactly what Spirit-to-Crit ratio is needed before the +throughput makes more sense to take than Spirit for total throughput.

-->In practicality, there's no way to trade stats in that large of an amount, except by trading Phylactery for IG (which still has regen, just not as much), so in reality, we'll probably end up stacking Spirit like you say anyway.

The burst weights don't apply to a 1 minute-long "burst" because I assumed you can push maximum throughput, including endless RJW casts and no Mana Tea channeling, during the burst window. I'm not sure 0 seconds of Mana Tea channeling is really necessary, since we haven't seen how hard it is yet. Regardless, supposing you're just trying to maximize your healing during Feast of Souls, you would probably want to stack just enough Spirit so that you could last through each Feast of Souls, then use burst weights from there (ignoring the Spirit weight since you want a specific amount). However, it's not like you don't care about the rest of the fight at all, so you'll actually want to make sure you have enough Spirit to spam RJW etc. during FoS and also heal the rest of the fight. In practicality, this probably just means stacking max Spirit anyway, since it seems like the level of Spirit you would ideally want to be at, i.e. the effective mana cap, would probably be too high to actually attain. Since you can't attain it, Haste forcing you to spend more mana may not be as attractive, and the bonus Tea from Crit may be more attractive, basically meaning you'd just use the Sustained stat weights anyway (Spirit >> MS > Crit > Vers >> Haste >> Mastery).

It may also be important to note that RJW followed by Mana Tea is higher HPS than SooM+SM.

The fact that the Spirit weight does not include any effects from needing to drink less Mana Tea is intentional. For total sustained HPS, if you're below the mana cap, your total number of Mana Tea consumed will be the same. The only time you would worry about this is for particularly long "burst" phases, like Feast of Souls, or when you're above the mana cap. The above-mana-cap Spirit weight is already a roughly-estimated nonzero value, and although it could be made more accurate by factoring in needing to drink less Mana Tea over the whole fight, it's already such a rough estimate and a low, unimportant value that I haven't gone through the effort to do so yet.

I agree. Spirit is naturally better on prog because of mistakes anyway. I really don't understand the logic of spirit being the 'risky' thing to gear for. It should be the other way around. This is just backwards thinking imo.

Honestly people really underestimate having naturally high regen as a mistweaver.

Your thinking is correct only because Spirit is so strong. You're not looking at the same question as me, so you're coming up with a different answer. You keep thinking in terms of trading 100 Spirit for 100 Crit. Then obviously Spirit is the safe choice. But if you think in terms of trading 100 Spirit for 240 Crit, which are worth roughly the same amount of stat points, then the Spirit looks less attractive because both of those options provide the same amount of healing over the entire fight, yet the Spirit may go to waste if you don't have the GCDs during which the raid is injured to spend the additional mana, whereas the Crit will always increase your HPS regardless of how much mana you're able to spend.

I'm not saying anything weird or new here; it's really just a long way of saying "don't take more Spirit than you need, and if you're not sure if you need it or not, it makes sense to trade it for an equal or a very slightly lower amount of throughput from Crit or other throughput stats (if possible)." The only significant practical option for this in HFC is trading Phylactery for IG on fights where you might not be able to spend all that mana, even though Phylactery technically scores higher on fights where you only care about total sustained HPS. There are some less-significant options, though, as well, such as jewelry with slightly different Spirit values.

As for the Spirit topic, who cares what the exact value of Spirit is? As long as it's more than any other secondary stat, you will want it on all jewelry. After that, you're talking about trinkets which are never dealing with exchanging flat amounts of stats for other flat amounts of stats anyways. I can't really think of a situation where I would care if Spirit is 2x the value of Crit or 3x the value of Crit.

I've answered this question before :P Actually, it can make a difference in everyday gear decisions. Suppose we have 4 necks, all of the same item level (so same Stamina and Intellect.) Their secondary stats are as follows:

1. 110 Multistrike, 90 Spirit
2. 100 Crit, 100 Spirit
3. 90 Haste, 110 Spirit
4. 70 Mastery, 130 Spirit

Exactly which option is the best depends on the weights of all 5 of those stats. Changing nothing except for Spirit, it could be any of those options depending on whether Spirit's stat weight is anywhere from equal to Multistrike's to 3x that of Crit's. Without stat weights, we would just be guessing.

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Here's hoping Xuen gets some love next xpac. I actually miss xuen , would actually help improve mistweaver spread healing problems anyway.

yell at devs some more? :P

I think Monkioh and I have both already brought up the lack of choice in some talent rows, but maybe they think there are only a handful of people who care.

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Has anyone gotten the leech trinket yet? I've gotten the normal one but haven't had to chance to test it out in some heavy raid damage. Do you guys notice a significant increase in healing like when you got your first heavy spirit trinket?

I'm seeing like +16% healing from the Leech portion of my Heroic version even when we're overhealing fights by like 1.5 healers. Lookin' good so far

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notice how "minimum hps" is also MW

basically MW w/o 4 piece is garbage, and with 4 piece becomes OP as hell

#extendlifefornewmastery

Hah, might be a bit too early to say anything conclusive though

[Supliftz]

Solid post Geodew. I'm glad we came to a understanding . After play testing with 2200 spirit w/ IG you can somewhat play the way you described on spread fights and that will be the best gearing choice. That said, it's really challenging to actually spend all your mana. Mistweavers don't really have the best mana to output tools for spread hps. Maybe it will get better as we more closer to BiS and our haste levels will naturally go up.

[Geodew]

#no4pcclub indeed, more like #0piececlub for me

make sure you redrop your statue down there and play aggressively with surgings. also make sure people aren't standing in shit and using their personals.

once you get 4pc it's a joke to heal down there.

Oh weird, yeah, I didn't have much trouble. Stun adds, Diffuse/Dampen/Fort when things get hairy, keep EM up on people and make sure they're not standing in fire, Touch of Death imps

[Floopa]

i got my 4pc today... but 3 normal pieces

still, 4pc is such a huge bonus idc XD

#timetoextendsomelives

i passed on IG for our disc priest though, gonna keep at 2.5k spirit and see how things play out tbh.

[Volibear]

i got my 4pc today... but 3 normal pieces

still, 4pc is such a huge bonus idc XD

#timetoextendsomelives

i passed on IG for our disc priest though, gonna keep at 2.5k spirit and see how things play out tbh.

I passed IG for a pally, rocking M autoclave and H felshadow emulsion.

Still no tier, hoping for some love from normals run on Sunday.

[Kungpaochick]

Would a 6/6 hourglass be better than a 685 shielding talisman?

[Geodew]

Would a 6/6 hourglass be better than a 685 shielding talisman?

Check out Slakos' trinket spreadsheet (link in my signature)

Oh, I should fix it to say trinkets instead of BRF trinkets

Ele Shield Talisman (H): 1404.96
Winged Hourglass (T6): 940.54

[Oziemaster]

Thanks for all the helpful responses to my logs.

[Mokal]

Any play-style difference with 2p + 2p sets? Just spam extend to raids or channel to get few stacks of the buff first.

[Supliftz]

If you only have 2pc you don't have to think about it at all. It would just be a passive hps bonus.

[Geodew]

Any play-style difference with 2p + 2p sets? Just spam extend to raids or channel to get few stacks of the buff first.

Basically, you never want to sit there doing nothing but channeling SooM, even with BRF 2pc, unless (a) no one is injured and (b) you have mana to spare on 100% overheal SooM. Because if you're not doing Surging or EM or ChiEx at the same time as SooM, the HPS of SooM is too low. You'll lose HPS trying to gain HPS if you just sit there channeling when people are hurt. So the optimal rotation isn't very different.