[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Totaltotemic]

I did that, and you said it was wrong to look at. (boss damage favored CT remember?) So which is it? Or do you really mean, "if you have Xuen, and never get to dps, and if you have to spend more time healing than not - theeeen it's more boss damage"? Again, blanket statements that in reality, require certain criteria to be true.

Well obviously if you look at someone that isn't in Crane for 50% of the fight they will do less damage than someone that is in Crane for 100% of the fight regardless of any talent choice. The latter could take literally zero talents and do more DPS, so it's a silly comparison. As to why there are so many Xuen parses where people just aren't in Crane for the whole fight, I don't really know because the only reason to take Xuen is if you want that 20% phase boss damage that CT won't give; I only wasn't doing that because we weren't even getting to that point and it was better for progression's sake for me to ignore DPS for the moment and tunnel healing the Felblaze tank. It seems contradictory that the people taking CT are the ones DPSing the entire fight while the ones taking Xuen are not, but I honestly don't really know what's up with that.

And yes I did not clarify my statement enough to get across that I was including entire fight boss DPS and not just the single phase, my bad. We've kind of been going in circles both saying the same thing because we got sidetracked onto how it was being said and not the point.

doesn't mean anything", downplaying the value of CT in the important phases, and overplaying the value of Xuen during the last phase.

Don't use quotation marks for things that aren't actually quotes. I didn't say that, and this is how we end up talking in circles when the method of discussion is dishonest and more concerned with proving someone wrong than getting to the truth.

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Can someone give me and my healers some advice on tyrant

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DFWthKVRc3xdynBk

All of your healers (yourself included) are spamming like crazy and blowing cooldowns left and right in P2 when it's not actually healing anyone. You're using RJW when you don't have Font so it's not actually healing anyone. The Shaman is spamming Chain Heal on himself for some reason when he doesn't have Font and isn't taking damage. Your Disc Priest is shielding seemingly random people once P2 starts instead of people with Font. Everyone just needs to calm down and recognize that in P2, only people with Font, the tanks, and the person with Touch of Harm need healing, no one else does. You could also use someone to organize CDs because it looks like you've got NVs and Healing Tide and Barrier all going out on the 3rd Edict at the exact same time which is just massive overkill and it leaves you with almost no CDs for P3. You also basically need an external CD rotation once P3 begins on the tanks or they are likely to just die in two melee hits before anyone can respond since everyone has to move.

[Antoine]

One thing I will STRONGLY recommend for Velhari, and I think I got it from this thread, is an addon to fix your raid frames for the max healable health reduction aura. There are 2 on curse:
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/velhariraidframeadjust this one works with Vuhdo but I found was very unreliable on default raidframes
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/velhari-health-fix this one works perfectly on default but doesn't work with Vuhdo.

[Evolved]

Well obviously if you look at someone that isn't in Crane for 50% of the fight they will do less damage than someone that is in Crane for 100% of the fight regardless of any talent choice. The latter could take literally zero talents and do more DPS, so it's a silly comparison.

Obviously. That's why I originally filtered just those abilities against only boss damage in an attempt to remove the other factors, like who spent more time healing etc. The claim in question wasn't which talent allowed you to do X other thing, it was which one did more damage to the boss. It's was just to measure the talents themselves on the most important targets (bosses) in the most accurate possible, regardless of any other actions. I wasn't trying to measure overall damage done until you suggested it. As a talent, CT did more damage to bosses. As we saw when we tried to do it, there's not enough top level parses of people going HAM with both talents to say that Xeun is significantly better at providing boss damage on this encounter.

I just realized that 3/4 of those logs were using 4 healers so the overall damage comparison was even more flawed, due to one of the Xuen users needing to drop out to heal. I noticed that you're also using 4, are you really finding the 4th to be necessary? We managed our first with only 3 healers and it never felt like a struggle. The last 2 weeks of healing it were rough, but our hpally was on vacation and we did it with a disc, hpriest, druid.

I suspect that the Xuen usage is simply for a bit of added DPS while still needing to Serpent for a larger percentage of the fight. He does give you that fire and forget freedom for a bit of extra damage.

[Antoine]

There are situations where Chi Torp is better than Xuen for single-target damage, but it requires pretty high haste levels, like 2000+, and I'm not convinced that stacking haste to that degree at the expense of multistrike is going to net overall better dps.

You might not think haste doesn't do anything for Chi Torp since it's on a charge system, but there are a couple reasons. Basically it's all about the globals you spend to cast it replacing jab/jab/spend cycles. First, if your haste isn't that high, and your multistrike is at the usual levels for mw this tier, you're not going to run out of RSK charges that much, so you'd be replacing RSKs for not much of a gain. If your haste is extremely high, you get back to replacing BoKs, so it's a bigger gain. Second is mana considerations. With extremely high haste and Chi Burst, you will have to drink some with xuen once fights get over 3 or so minutes. Chi Torp means you spend less mana because you're spending 6 globals a minute on a free ability instead of j/j/spends, so you don't run out of mana as fast.

I added chi torp to my sheet but it only reflects in the dps figure currently, it screws up all the stat scaling right now.

[Totaltotemic]

Obviously. That's why I originally filtered just those abilities against only boss damage in an attempt to remove the other factors, like who spent more time healing etc. The claim in question wasn't which talent allowed you to do X other thing, it was which one did more damage to the boss. It's was just to measure the talents themselves on the most important targets (bosses) in the most accurate possible, regardless of any other actions. I wasn't trying to measure overall damage done until you suggested it. As a talent, CT did more damage to bosses. As we saw when we tried to do it, there's not enough top level parses of people going HAM with both talents to say that Xeun is significantly better at providing boss damage on this encounter.

I just realized that 3/4 of those logs were using 4 healers so the overall damage comparison was even more flawed, due to one of the Xuen users needing to drop out to heal. I noticed that you're also using 4, are you really finding the 4th to be necessary? We managed our first with only 3 healers and it never felt like a struggle. The last 2 weeks of healing it were rough, but our hpally was on vacation and we did it with a disc, hpriest, druid.

I suspect that the Xuen usage is simply for a bit of added DPS while still needing to Serpent for a larger percentage of the fight. He does give you that fire and forget freedom for a bit of extra damage.

Okay that's fair. As for what we're doing, no I don't find 4 healers to be necessary. I could just not even be there and it might be better off, but clutch Revivals when an explosion happens that wasn't supposed to and the fact that I can put some attention towards interrupting/positioning stray Imps seem to be helping progression more than another 50k raid DPS would. I also spend much of my time on wipe diagnosis and fixing raid problems that don't really get looked at much when I'm not around so my presence is less about doing HPS or DPS or even playing well and more about helping everyone else play well. Additionally, Grounding Totem hasn't been working out for some reason and as we got further it became apparent that if that isn't figured out someone might need to blow up the growing shadow area which I can do extremely easily with Diffuse without having to worry about losing DPS or something to go do that.

We're also using the fact that 4 healers are present to do a kind of obscure strat where Herosim is blown on the add phase instead of the 20% phase and just banking on having 4 healers to allow pushing the final 20% a lot longer because the extra CD plus extra healer should allow another 2 Chaos things to go off before the raid is in serious trouble which overall just ends up getting out of the part of the fight that was the most difficult (when people are trying to max spam AoE and do mechanics at the same time) faster. I'm not sure that it's necessary and I'm sure we could just do it normally with 3 healers, but obviously any guild that hasn't downed Archimonde by now isn't exactly top notch and we sometimes do things in strange ways to make up for people playing poorly.

I did notice that CT was performing a lot better once I was actually putting some thought into what I was doing, using Transcendence for max uptime (i.e. never having to waste charges to deal with Fel Surge), once Imps were handled a bit better. At the same time I was never actually making sure to use Xuen properly, so maybe we'll never have a good answer on that because I think once someone does the fight one way they probably always do it the same way and we might never see two people doing the same thing on the fight with different talents.

BTW @Antoine do you happen to know how many targets it typically takes for Mirror to outstrip IG or IRP in damage? I've been kind of yoloing Mirror on farm but it's really hard to compare the static stat trinkets in terms of damage when every fight goes a little differently each week.

[Evolved]

Can someone give me and my healers some advice on tyrant

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DFWthKVRc3xdynBk

I'm trying to time my burst for edicts, having rjw going and chi burst and uplift ready and trying to position myself the best that I can. But our tanks just fucking drop like rocks over and over and over. Our disc is spamming shield on the toh targets and sometimes letting the tank die. Should he be prioritizing that while I do the toh stuff? We made it into p3 a few times, but people are just dying. I'm really not sure what to do and feel like we are hitting a giant wall right at p3.

P3 transition is the toughest part. You'll have to figure out what cooldowns you'll need based on how fast you get out of P2 with current HP pool and what you need to survive the first edict/sludge pools, first gavel/bulwark etc. I.E. Can you survive movement damage + first pools at that P3 transition, or do you need barrier? Spirit Link on 1st and 2nd gavel? Healing tide as movement starts to happen, etc. Those are great times to plan for shieldtronics and such. Those things will also help your tanks survive if you're stacking your raid up for pools. At a quick glance, there are some tank deaths due to sloppy swaps (getting melee'd by add and boss at the same time at the start of P3 - big nono when you've only got 200k health) and dying to 1 shot's during P3 without an external/major personal up. Tanks are definitely going to get trucked there. They should be trying to save all big personals and armor pots for that phase and you'll want to have as many externals on them as possible throughout P3. Have a set rotation every time to make it easy. P3 example: Ring on transition -> personal -> external -> external -> armor pot -> personal, etc. (not sure I would use BoS on progression on Tyrant as a DK)

Also, tell cooki that I miss his sweet pillow talk.

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Additionally, Grounding Totem hasn't been working out for some reason and as we got further it became apparent that if that isn't figured out someone might need to blow up the growing shadow area which I can do extremely easily with Diffuse without having to worry about losing DPS or something to go do that.

We're also using the fact that 4 healers are present to do a kind of obscure strat where Herosim is blown on the add phase instead of the 20% phase and just banking on having 4 healers to allow pushing the final 20% a lot longer because the extra CD plus extra healer should allow another 2 Chaos things to go off before the raid is in serious trouble which overall just ends up getting out of the part of the fight that was the most difficult (when people are trying to max spam AoE and do mechanics at the same time) faster. I'm not sure that it's necessary and I'm sure we could just do it normally with 3 healers, but obviously any guild that hasn't downed Archimonde by now isn't exactly top notch and we sometimes do things in strange ways to make up for people playing poorly.

I did notice that CT was performing a lot better once I was actually putting some thought into what I was doing, using Transcendence for max uptime (i.e. never having to waste charges to deal with Fel Surge), once Imps were handled a bit better. At the same time I was never actually making sure to use Xuen properly, so maybe we'll never have a good answer on that because I think once someone does the fight one way they probably always do it the same way and we might never see two people doing the same thing on the fight with different talents.

We had issues trying to grounding totem that as well, I don't recall if it ended up being a timing or ranging issue, though I know our shaman ended up going projection just in case. (had to be dropped and projected in some sort of time frame if I recall) We also had problems with imps getting a cast off and sniping the totem.

[Spotnick]

Personally every time we wipe on trash and I dared to try fistweaving, that's the first thing raid leader will say "don't change anything to how we killed the boss". And usually it's much better because fistweaving you won't patch mistakes easily.. you could before they added stupid stance, not now.

Being in the full full time in crane, you might as well bench and let a real dps come in, or go windwalker, you'll probably be more useful to the raid then.

[Deleted]

Does somebody reading here have tips with soaking Doomfire on Archimonde? My guild is starting progress on this today and I'm probably gonna be on fulltime firefighter duty. I know that Cocoon-collect fire-spamheal until it gets sketchy-Diffuse works for every second soak, but is there any trick to make the other soaks easier(where I will have Purity but neither Cocoon nor Diffuse)?

[Deleted]

Does somebody reading here have tips with soaking Doomfire on Archimonde? My guild is starting progress on this today and I'm probably gonna be on fulltime firefighter duty. I know that Cocoon-collect fire-spamheal until it gets sketchy-Diffuse works for every second soak, but is there any trick to make the other soaks easier(where I will have Purity but neither Cocoon nor Diffuse)?

Use UFE, you'll get like 50% leech just healing yourself and it makes it super easy. Alternate between cocoon and diffuse magic on yourself, they come back up in time so you can use diffuse on 1st, 3rd, 5th and cocoon on 2nd 4th 6th. There's no need to use both on the same fire. Use them while picking up the fire and then just spam soothing, surging and enveloping on yourself and leech trinket should do the rest.

[Sonrisa]

Can someone give me and my healers some advice on tyrant

Your priest is specced into CoW but isn't using it. His whole job is keeping as much shield as possible on both tanks and at least some on the debuff target (so he can move without dieing).

[Tradu]

Additionally, Grounding Totem hasn't been working out for some reason

We had some issues with that, but in the end we found out it was due to range issues(and occasionally an imp cast getting through, which also consumes the Grounding). So you may want to look at your positioning and try to have your shaman project the totem somewhere where it covers everybody(we use 2 shammies, so cover more area by default)

[Sonrisa]

If you are projecting the Grounding Totem you need to do so at least 6 seconds in advance or the buff won't get applied in time.

[Spotnick]

Can someone give me and my healers some advice on tyrant

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DFWthKVRc3xdynBk

I'm trying to time my burst for edicts, having rjw going and chi burst and uplift ready and trying to position myself the best that I can. But our tanks just fucking drop like rocks over and over and over. Our disc is spamming shield on the toh targets and sometimes letting the tank die. Should he be prioritizing that while I do the toh stuff? We made it into p3 a few times, but people are just dying. I'm really not sure what to do and feel like we are hitting a giant wall right at p3.

Also I spent like 3 hours last night trying to figure out the efficiency of UFE and determined the effective leech healing was doing about 50% overheal and I did 12.5m leech healing, so about 6.25m effective. Is it still the best trinket for this fight if both me and the resto shaman are using it? I tried and tried and tried to figure out how much actual healing I did with leech during p2 but it's almost impossible because of the way leech is given by the trinket how all healing is considered effective and having 2 healers with the trinket.

This fight is all about raid cooldowns placement, you will most likely have no tanks alive for a first kill anyways.

And also people GTFO in time with Edict for their suicide.

I might be lazy, but really the 1st gavel was the wipe spot for us, so we have shieldtronics + revival and something else there (because I can do it while we move after the 2nd knockback)

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We're also using the fact that 4 healers are present to do a kind of obscure strat where Herosim is blown on the add phase instead of the 20% phase and just banking on having 4 healers to allow pushing the final 20% a lot longer because the extra CD plus extra healer should allow another 2 Chaos things to go off before the raid is in serious trouble which overall just ends up getting out of the part of the fight that was the most difficult (when people are trying to max spam AoE and do mechanics at the same time) faster. I'm not sure that it's necessary and I'm sure we could just do it normally with 3 healers, but obviously any guild that hasn't downed Archimonde by now isn't exactly top notch and we sometimes do things in strange ways to make up for people playing poorly.<

I believe the last 20% was single healed in our kill, so it really doesn't matter much. People already said the projection thingy, but since we had to deal with both shadow and fel for not knowing it then, we usually just let the explosion happens by themselves by stacking the puddles not too far apart and that worked.

With the totem, you pretty much need your rogues to go clear after they are done with the Black Hole.

[Deleted]

Ive recently picked up Mistweaving, but Im trying out fistweaving, and am I right in saying its very mana hungry?

[Tameiki]

Ive recently picked up Mistweaving, but Im trying out fistweaving, and am I right in saying its very mana hungry?

Not usually? Unless you use Crackling Jade Lightning. I don't have an issue with mana if I'm full on fistweaving. You generate a lot of Mana Tea with it.

[Deleted]

It is at lower gear levels, once you get a decent level of spirit and crit it starts to be very mana positive though.

[cqwrteur]

I really don't understand why a raid really needs a MW. I spent half a year finding my mythic raid.

Melee healer is just a joke in PVP. RJW in melee groups in World PVP= DIE. Why did they design such a spec?

[Supliftz]

I really don't understand why a raid really needs a MW. I spent half a year finding my mythic raid.

Melee healer is just a joke in PVP. RJW in melee groups in World PVP= DIE. Why did they design such a spec?

Probably because this is a pve game first, and pvp is an afterthought.

[cqwrteur]

Probably because this is a pve game first, and pvp is an afterthought.

My mean is not " this is a pve game first, and pvp is an afterthought". In fact, you could see lots of things as silly as this. It seems BLZ never wants this spec good. In fact, we have come back to 5.4 without extend life, for most problems of this spec have never been solved.

I would like to see some changes like double uplift's both healing (990%->1980%) and mana cost( from 4%->8%).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...=hps&boss=1799

Mythic archimonde shows we are really terrible without RJW.

[Supliftz]

All mythic archimonde shows me is holy paladins and disc priests are the only relevant healer on this encounter.

By all means though, you can riot for doubling uplift's power.