[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Roiids]

Having second thoughts about Vial being better than forgemaster trinket..... because you try and line up the vial with your CD's... but if you have to wait to use vial for 30+ seconds and such... wouldnt the Forgemaster be better because you get what 1PPM? I'm having a hard time seeing where Vial is going to be better just for CD's but im trying to understand proper CD stacking with various fight lengths and etc...

[Warrco]

Having second thoughts about Vial being better than forgemaster trinket..... because you try and line up the vial with your CD's... but if you have to wait to use vial for 30+ seconds and such... wouldnt the Forgemaster be better because you get what 1PPM? I'm having a hard time seeing where Vial is going to be better just for CD's but im trying to understand proper CD stacking with various fight lengths and etc...

Optimally, you'll use vial + forgemaster.

Vial still lines up very well with basically everything.

[Roiids]

Optimally, you'll use vial + forgemaster.

Vial still lines up very well with basically everything.

Thought Horn > Vial > Forgemaster?

So its Vial > Forgemaster > Horn? Mastery is pretty good.. so figured it was better than MS proc.

[Warriorsarri]

Vial>Horn>Forgemaster>Tectus>Bottle.

[Warrco]

Shit, that was for arms, not fury.

Vial>Horn>Forgemaster>Tectus>Bottle.

This^

[Crisius]

Wouldn't Bloodbath be a better natural choice when using Vial, since it aligns with every other Bloodbath, rather than facing delays and alignment issues with Avatar (considering fight length isn't bad for Bloodbath) ? At least that's what I think ...

Avatar has a slight edge as fury as far as I can tell, as there's more damage coming from white hits, it aligns with every siegebreaker and avatar will cover the whole duration of the trinket. The tests I've done is with 4-set though, without they might be fairly equal or bloodbath might have a slight edge. I can run some sims on it later.

[Roiids]

Avatar has a slight edge as fury as far as I can tell, as there's more damage coming from white hits, it aligns with every siegebreaker and avatar will cover the whole duration of the trinket. The tests I've done is with 4-set though, without they might be fairly equal or bloodbath might have a slight edge. I can run some sims on it later.

W 4PC avatar amplifies all damage... but last night i pulled 40k on Gruul doing siegebreaker/BB..... *shrug* However fight length 4min... would have only gotten in 3 avatars compared to 4 bloodbaths.

[Kirbynator]

more like 2 and 3

[Madcowlol]

Vial>Horn>Forgemaster>Tectus>Bottle.

Does that also count if forgemaster is mythic? perhaps a silly question? Guessing it will be vial+ forge in any case untill I get horn mythic then its Vial>horn>forge I'd assume.

[Roiids]

more like 2 and 3

4min 15 seconds technically so 3/4

- - - Updated - - -

Well, the results are going to be different simply due to rng and that some of the options are well within the margin of error.

I thought 6.1 was going to be released today, but since it is not... there isn't much to talk about. Both tier bonuses are pretty good for Fury, you'll definitely want to pick them up whenever you can.

How good are they? Click here.

If your raid gives out tokens to specs based on the strength of the bonus, you definitely won't get first dibs. Elemental T17 2P bonus too strong. However, depending on healing/tank bonuses, (I honestly don't know how good they are, I think Resto Shamans love their bonus), Fury is the next best dps option on that token. The 2P bonus is worth around 200~ strength if all scenarios are averaged, the 4P is closer to 600~ strength.

It's too bad that T17 4P isn't the same for Arms, because that would be absolutely ridiculous with <20% execute.

For most 670-685~ ilevel people your stat weights will look something like this:

(Sudden Death/Anger Management/Bloodbath used in this)

Strength: 1.0
Crit Below 25%: 0.65
Crit Above 25%: 0.58
Mastery: 0.58-0.70~ (Depends on how much crit you have)
Haste below 11% - 0.64
Haste inbetween 11-18% - 0.58
Haste over 18%: 0.50
Multistrike: 0.55
Versatility: 0.42

In all honesty, I cannot give a 100% accurate stat weight estimate for every character. Sim it yourself.

More information about 6.1 here:

Could someone provide some clarity on this part:

Mastery: 0.58-0.70~ (Depends on how much crit you have)

What is the interaction between these two? What sways mastery to change so much based on crit? For fury?

Thanks in advance.

[sjsctt]

JJ--our mastery is based off our bloodthirst critting. If you have 2 set, that bumps mastery up slightly (since you now got 'free' enrages), then 4 set bumps it up again (since crit raises.) Mastery=you do more damage when enraged. Therefore, the more you crit, the more you are enraged, thus the more you benefit from mastery.

Make sense?

[Roiids]

JJ--our mastery is based off our bloodthirst critting. If you have 2 set, that bumps mastery up slightly (since you now got 'free' enrages), then 4 set bumps it up again (since crit raises.) Mastery=you do more damage when enraged. Therefore, the more you crit, the more you are enraged, thus the more you benefit from mastery.

Make sense?

Yeah thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated. Altering my gear lists and such for AMR BIS lists and the wide range was making it tougher.

[Invrlose]

I'm pretty glad you can run crit mastery for almost each spec and do well. Gives good flexibility

[Archimtiros]

I'm pretty glad you can run crit mastery for almost each spec and do well. Gives good flexibility

It's not really good for Arms but Arms stats are screwed beyond belief anyways.

[Warrco]

It's not really good for Arms but Arms stats are screwed beyond belief anyways.

You just can't gear up for arms.

Then basically every single piece of gear that drops from BRF is BIS for us

[Falerion]

Hey, if I go Avatar, is it better going with SMF or TG?
Now I have Scabard, Heroic Horn and Heroic Tectus, which is the best setup to use as fury and arms??
Sometimes I´ve tested Siegebraker as Fury and looks well. Should I stop using AM??

[Ryanite]

This has probably already been thought of but I was thinking with all these stories of impressively frustrating non crit streaks on bloodthirst, why isn't there some sort of fail safe. I think fire mages got something like this for WoD but just a simple stacking buff for each time blood thirst does not crit. Say around 5% (number can be adjusted) extra chance for bloodthirst to crit stacking 4 times. So pretty much a streak longer than 4 would be almost unheard of but still possible.

A straight buff to our passive crit would be more beneficial but would also effect every spell and I'm not sure blizzard would want to do that, at least this way it just helps to alleviate the horrible feeling of not being enraged over and over.

This would also help lower gear levels have a more fluid rotation and just iron out those rare streaks at higher gear levels.

[nativity]

This has probably already been thought of but I was thinking with all these stories of impressively frustrating non crit streaks on bloodthirst, why isn't there some sort of fail safe. I think fire mages got something like this for WoD but just a simple stacking buff for each time blood thirst does not crit. Say around 5% (number can be adjusted) extra chance for bloodthirst to crit stacking 4 times. So pretty much a streak longer than 4 would be almost unheard of but still possible.

A straight buff to our passive crit would be more beneficial but would also effect every spell and I'm not sure blizzard would want to do that, at least this way it just helps to alleviate the horrible feeling of not being enraged over and over.

This would also help lower gear levels have a more fluid rotation and just iron out those rare streaks at higher gear levels.

Include buff to Blood Thirst as well.. Make it 100% weapon damage

[Archimtiros]

Include buff to Blood Thirst as well.. Make it 100% weapon damage

It isn't the not critting that sucks (well it is but stay with me), its the fact that we can't do anything if BT doesn't crit. We don't have enough rage to use on Wild Strike (and wouldn't want to anyways), we can't RB and as with Wild Strike, we don't want to waste talents when not enraged.

The simple fix is streak protection, but a stacking buff doesn't really help because you are still left with oodles of downtime. Sure we may be talking 2-3 BTs in a row without critting but that is still 1 GCD every 4.5s or so.

I said it months ago, aside from a blanket 100% crit rate, the best and simplest solution is to bake in UqT: If BT doesn't crit, refresh the CD on BT. That way, even at lowest levels we can simply press BT all day until we get a crit, and when it does crit, we move onto different things. It has the added bonus of getting rid of UqT as a talent, and adding something that could actually be competitive in its place.

[Deleted]

I said it months ago, aside from a blanket 100% crit rate, the best and simplest solution is to bake in UqT: If BT doesn't crit, refresh the CD on BT. That way, even at lowest levels we can simply press BT all day until we get a crit, and when it does crit, we move onto different things. It has the added bonus of getting rid of UqT as a talent, and adding something that could actually be competitive in its place.

While it sucks spamming BT until you are enraged, it's true that I guess it's better than just sitting there autoattacking waiting for next BT indeed.

I was thinking of something like resetting the cooldown if 2 or 3 consecutive BT's don't crit in a row refresh the cd and the next has a bit more increased crit chance. You usually fit in 2 BTs in an enrage window anyway (with 3rd one not being far off, as long as you keep using it on CD) so it would be a decent solution without spamming BT until it crits. Or perhaps a mechanics to reset cd of BzR in a similar fashion, I just hate that BT spam, especially as it hits like a wet noodle :/

What really gets at me the is when horn procs and BrZ is off cooldown and you go into an unlucky streak. All that mastery! All that potential wasted