[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Cyclonus-WOW]

So, best times to use ring on each fight? Discuss.

Kormok : Use ring for hands > explode on tank in fist and kormrok for massive profit. I did this on heroic and had no demo locks to compete with. #thedream

[Bigbazz]

So, best times to use ring on each fight? Discuss.

Kormok : Use ring for hands > explode on tank in fist and kormrok for massive profit. I did this on heroic and had no demo locks to compete with. #thedream

Did you tell everyone else to just not dps? When I do Kormrok HC I get about 1 second of Bladestorm and it's all over, AOE heavy raid though and everyone wants a piece.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Did you tell everyone else to just not dps? When I do Kormrok HC I get about 1 second of Bladestorm and it's all over, AOE heavy raid though and everyone wants a piece.

No. My other very geared Bladestormer wasn't there that night and the locks were all non-demology.

[Artunias]

No. My other very geared Bladestormer wasn't there that night and the locks were all non-demology.

How convenient for you =P

[Darkfriend]

Doubt the ring counts towards BB

Well the explosion from the ring doesn't proc BB, I tested it. I'm unsure if the damage from BB counts towards ring explosion. But on the fights where I'd use BB before (ST) I've been using avatar, simply because of timing. (I.E Iron Reaver.)

[thefuga]

That's because you are simming ST. T18 isn't bad for ST, it is just significantly weaker in AoE, and T17 is stronger. Especially with ring.

And Bazz sims will favor T18 because people normally sim ST style fights, not realistic fights.

I'd use T18 on Kormork, Fel Lord, maybe Socrethar.

Tested in the "Beastlord" type and the 4pc T17 was better, but by a small margin. Guess it's because i'm using that "10% crit" trinket(?)

[Archimtiros]

Should have worded myself better - the ranged are not actually the ones using it, more like they're constantly calling for me to use the ring as soon as its off cooldown. As we know AM is kinda varied in the amount of cooldown reduction, sometimes I can get it to 2min10s~ sometimes it seems like 2min20s~ (approximations of course). I guess its just this variance that the ranged are not used to.

Talk it out with them before hand and explain why your going to do it, and then just be vocal during the fight. Say "delaying 10s" or whatnot.

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So, best times to use ring on each fight? Discuss.

Kormok : Use ring for hands > explode on tank in fist and kormrok for massive profit. I did this on heroic and had no demo locks to compete with. #thedream

(On Mythic) use it on the first and third hand waves. Boss should be dead by then. On the 3rd wave you have to be very fast (warrior is great here) to charge him after puddle soaking and make sure that the explosion hits him.

You aren't using it on the hands for damage on them, though that definitely inflates numbers, you use it on hands so that all that aoe gets put into the boss as single target damage.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

You aren't using it on the hands for damage on them, though that definitely inflates numbers, you use it on hands so that all that aoe gets put into the boss as single target damage.

Exactly yes. I'm not sure there is a tank in a Fist on Mythic too ( right after dragging hands ) but it sure helps to charge back to boss and that fist so the explosion hits both.

[Archimtiros]

Exactly yes. I'm not sure there is a tank in a Fist on Mythic too ( right after dragging hands ) but it sure helps to charge back to boss and that fist so the explosion hits both.

It's right before dragging hands.

On M, we get fist, then dragging, then he immediately jumps to the far pool. We soak, and I've got about 3 seconds to get to him before ring goes off. Not terribly difficult, since the boss is already walking back towards the boss, just something to keep in mind.

[Ryanite]

Would buffing Recklessness to around 50% crit and 20% crit damage increase the desirability of the t18 at all iterations instead of only higher end while also not having too much of an impact on arms and PvP aspects of the game?

[Artunias]

Would buffing Recklessness to around 50% crit and 20% crit damage increase the desirability of the t18 at all iterations instead of only higher end while also not having too much of an impact on arms and PvP aspects of the game?

The bigger problem is that it's tied to wild strike. Which you don't use if you're meat cleaving. Which is a lot in HFC.

But sure that bonus would help on single target fights, but we've been asking for recklessness to be a better cooldown since the beta. You can see how that's worked out.

[Archimtiros]

Would buffing Recklessness to around 50% crit and 20% crit damage increase the desirability of the t18 at all iterations instead of only higher end while also not having too much of an impact on arms and PvP aspects of the game?

Couldn't say about the impact on PvP, but yes it would help a lot for Fury. Current problem is even using it on a 40s cooldown, 30% extra crit only gives our (non BT) abilities about a 60-65% crit chance (buffed), and a minor 10% damage increase when they do crit. It's very mediocre.

Fury got the dick with the so called "WoD leveling bonuses". Recklessness started as a 30% buff and was nerfed during Beta down to 15%, then we were given a "leveling perk" which brought it back up to 30%.

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The bigger problem is that it's tied to wild strike. Which you don't use if you're meat cleaving. Which is a lot in HFC.

But sure that bonus would help on single target fights, but we've been asking for recklessness to be a better cooldown since the beta. You can see how that's worked out.

Agreed, I said since the beginning, the bonus should have worked with Whirlwind as well as Wild Strike. Being complete alternates of one another, we wouldn't ever use them in tandem, so there's no way of getting extra reduction.

Only two problems with Whirlwind; first, it has a slightly lower rage cost, so it would be more reduction/rage, but Anger Management makes up for that, as does Wild Strikes lower GCD and Wild Strike proc bonuses. It evens out, and actually Wild Strike still comes out ahead, just as intended.

The other issue is that Whirlwind hits more than one target, but the easy fix would be to allow the reduction to only work once per cast of the ability, so that Whirlwind couldn't crit on 4 targets and give 4x reduction. This would be very easy to include.

In the end, it didn't happen because they didn't want it to happen. They seem more interested in forcing people to use different specs by purposefully making each spec subpar in certain situations. I've got no problem with this when it comes to damage tuning. Arms should be better at cleave than Fury and worse at single target. What I have issue with is accomplishing this by neutering the rotation. Arms can be worse at single target without feeling like ass to play, and Fury can be weaker on cleave without having to give up its tier bonuses; it just takes more work to do so.

[Artunias]

Couldn't say about the impact on PvP, but yes it would help a lot for Fury. Current problem is even using it on a 40s cooldown, 30% extra crit only gives our (non BT) abilities about a 60-65% crit chance (buffed), and a minor 10% damage increase when they do crit. It's very mediocre.

Fury got the dick with the so called "WoD leveling bonuses". Recklessness started as a 30% buff and was nerfed during Beta down to 15%, then we were given a "leveling perk" which brought it back up to 30%.

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Agreed, I said since the beginning, the bonus should have worked with Whirlwind as well as Wild Strike. Being complete alternates of one another, we wouldn't ever use them in tandem, so there's no way of getting extra reduction.

Only two problems with Whirlwind; first, it has a slightly lower rage cost, so it would be more reduction/rage, but Anger Management makes up for that, as does Wild Strikes lower GCD and Wild Strike proc bonuses. It evens out, and actually Wild Strike still comes out ahead, just as intended.

The other issue is that Whirlwind hits more than one target, but the easy fix would be to allow the reduction to only work once per cast of the ability, so that Whirlwind couldn't crit on 4 targets and give 4x reduction. This would be very easy to include.

In the end, it didn't happen because they didn't want it to happen. They seem more interested in forcing people to use different specs by purposefully making each spec subpar in certain situations. I've got no problem with this when it comes to damage tuning. Arms should be better at cleave than Fury and worse at single target. What I have issue with is accomplishing this by neutering the rotation. Arms can be worse at single target without feeling like ass to play, and Fury can be weaker on cleave without having to give up its tier bonuses; it just takes more work to do so.

Not only do they neuter the rotation, but they also neuter the potential of the damage. At least with warriors. On a sustained 2 target cleave you'll just get laughed at as fury compared to most classes.

On single target you're going to get laughed at as arms.

Most of this comes down to being plagued by awful design decisions in WoD I'm convinced, but I don't see any reason why they can't be tuned better even if one is a clear winner in a given situation. For instance Arcane/Frost for mages and Aff/Destro for locks. Both are generally good specs but one spec is a clear winner over the other in certain situation but generally not by a landslide as is the case with warriors.

[westwind1124]

evening folks. new here. I have been really frustrated with my warrior lately. I seem to be hanging quite a bit behind other warriors of similar gear levels. I can't post in the look at my logs section yet so I can't link anything. My problem here is I have read the last 50 pages or so of this point and it seems soooo way over my head. There is a lot of very technical talk on this thread that I am having a hard time following. Is there possibly a simplified place I can go to learn my warrior better. As soon as I can I will post my logs etc for you kind folks to look over.

Thanks.

Westwind.

[Fog]

evening folks. new here. I have been really frustrated with my warrior lately. I seem to be hanging quite a bit behind other warriors of similar gear levels. I can't post in the look at my logs section yet so I can't link anything. My problem here is I have read the last 50 pages or so of this point and it seems soooo way over my head. There is a lot of very technical talk on this thread that I am having a hard time following. Is there possibly a simplified place I can go to learn my warrior better. As soon as I can I will post my logs etc for you kind folks to look over.

Thanks.

Westwind.

You can post links by breaking up the links with spaces, or you can just give us the information needed to find you. Such as guild, character name and server.
I'm not gonna lie to you, getting deep into the art of warrior isn't a cake walk, but it's not so difficult either once you wrap your head around the basic stuffs.

There are many simplified guides, I guess, but I dislike them for the lack of information about the technical stuff.
However, Icy-Veins is decent to start getting a grasp of the class.

[Ryanite]

Does anyone else feel that no matter how well they dps at single target they can't keep up with what other classes are putting down? Like I see that simcraft has Fury at above average but is anyone actually able to constantly keep up with that? I feel like I'm trying so hard to make sure everything is perfect with little to show for it.

[Fog]

Does anyone else feel that no matter how well they dps at single target they can't keep up with what other classes are putting down? Like I see that simcraft has Fury at above average but is anyone actually able to constantly keep up with that? I feel like I'm trying so hard to make sure everything is perfect with little to show for it.

It is what it is. Sims are playing near perfect (even those stating they have player lag simmed), and RNG can fuck us over more often than not. Besides, it's how we deal with the RNG that matters as well. What we do when we have too much and too little. On some fights I'm top dawg, most fights I'm not. But that's also down to me not having any strong trinkets, Unending Hunger is the only one I got atm, and only recently got 4 set. Not that it helps all that much.

Just keep at it, we're up there, it just takes abit of luck to stay there.

[Artunias]

I don't know how sims handle the ring really, but being able to use the ring on your terms as a warrior can have huge impacts on your dps. So that's another factor when you look at Arcane/Locks/Hunters their cooldowns align perfectly with the ring. Same thing with sub rogues and shadow dance.

And regardless of how Blizzard tried to sell it, it essentially gets used on cooldown 95% of the time.

[Jaybee9084]

And regardless of how Blizzard tried to sell it, it essentially gets used on cooldown 95% of the time.

So true, and no one ever wants to delay it 15-20 seconds so you can use it at 20% instead of 30%. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Archimtiros]

So true, and no one ever wants to delay it 15-20 seconds so you can use it at 20% instead of 30%. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

That's why you get yourself put in charge! Gotta fight for your rights!