[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Vonconrad]

Or you can actually show them the math and demonstrate to your raid how much they gain as a whole from people delaying cooldowns and ring uses and how much more of a burst execute ring explosions provide. These rings are a really powerful tool if you plan out their uses ahead of time. Of course, most people without complete knowledge of all the classes/specs and all aspects of the encounters are going to basically just make sure it's up for lust and use it on cooldown outside of that.

[mealar]

with the general feeling that arms is behind on ST and fury is behind on cleave which has the bigger difference. asking as my offspecc is prot to help raiding so i can't have 2 dps speccs so is it a bigger loss to be arms all the time or fury?

[Fog]

with the general feeling that arms is behind on ST and fury is behind on cleave which has the bigger difference. asking as my offspecc is prot to help raiding so i can't have 2 dps speccs so is it a bigger loss to be arms all the time or fury?

The safest bet is to go fury, as the cleave isn't...well it is kinda terrible compared to arms, but single target and burst aoe fury comes out on top.
However, with my current gear, arms sims highest for me on pure single target. I only got Unending Hunger from HFC, so it might skew the results abit, but unless something's wrong, arms might be better than we thought.

[Mogai]

i think i just lucked out and got made in charge of our ring. this could be fun

[Demandred]

AMR is telling me that the EDH is a dps gain over the cleave trinket, this even includes the normal version, did i miss a memo?

[Valrok]

AMR is telling me that the EDH is a dps gain over the cleave trinket, this even includes the normal version, did i miss a memo?

AMR is single target optimized so yes EDH is better than chorus

[Archimtiros]

AMR is telling me that the EDH is a dps gain over the cleave trinket, this even includes the normal version, did i miss a memo?

No, EDH has always been better than cleave, excepting about a weeks worth of time in which EDH was nerfed before Cleave was. Regardless it's been like that for quite some time now.

[barackohmama]

Is it worth going fury for ST if you have t18, class trinket/unending hunger and 720/715 weapons? I know it's not not a pure ST fight, but on hc Mannoroth I did like 4m more damage on boss with arms. And that's after t18 nerf. Enrage uptime was fine as fury, so it gotta be something else. Is the 715 weapon and not having EDH a big deal for ST as fury?

[Archimtiros]

Is it worth going fury for ST if you have t18, class trinket/unending hunger and 720/715 weapons? I know it's not not a pure ST fight, but on hc Mannoroth I did like 4m more damage on boss with arms. And that's after t18 nerf. Enrage uptime was fine as fury, so it gotta be something else. Is the 715 weapon and not having EDH a big deal for ST as fury?

Arms can see a good gain out of Mannoroth by abusing Rend on Infernals if they are up for any length of time, otherwise Fury is generally your best bet. If you are running Fury with Bladestorm, how good you do is going to be based on how little other players damage the imps; if they die instantly, you are better off going full single target and just tunneling Mannoroth.

[barackohmama]

Arms can see a good gain out of Mannoroth by abusing Rend on Infernals if they are up for any length of time, otherwise Fury is generally your best bet. If you are running Fury with Bladestorm, how good you do is going to be based on how little other players damage the imps; if they die instantly, you are better off going full single target and just tunneling Mannoroth.

Yeah I use rend on infernals as often as I get the chance before they start doing aoe. It feels like arms does better boss damage than fury that fight with the MS resets from 2pc t18. As imps die quite quickly I never bothered with BS fury and went full single target, but it was much harder to pull good numbers compared to arms.

[Artunias]

I think the bigger issue with Mannoroth is most classes have on demand AoE and burst AoE that really doesn't effect their single target in any meaningful way.

Same old argument, warriors don't really. I know in my raid pretty much everything dies instantly so I just go full single target on the boss. My placement on the meter can be meh sometimes, but damage done to Mannoroth is always way up there.

[Archimtiros]

Yeah I use rend on infernals as often as I get the chance before they start doing aoe. It feels like arms does better boss damage than fury that fight with the MS resets from 2pc t18. As imps die quite quickly I never bothered with BS fury and went full single target, but it was much harder to pull good numbers compared to arms.

I would get almost the same numbers whether I went Bladestorm or full ST, because our Imps died very fast. Then I tried running Arms a few times, and early on it worked but at this point Infernals die almost as fast as Imps do, so Rending them doesn't really give much of an advantage. Of course, every raid group is different.

[zyen]

Ah good old mannoroth. Seen over 10 sub 10% wipes now, 5 of which were sub 5%, and one was 0.2%.

Warcraftlogs even showed the wipe as a 0% wipe, thanks for the PJsalt on my wounds.

I do almost the same DPS with padstorm vs ST, because the adds die within 2seconds of my padstorm.

And it basically does nothing once the imps stop coming (on heroic at least).

Difference between damage done on boss with ST and AOE setup is almost 25%.

Maybe I'll try out some arms action, to see if it will help out with some execute damage. For some reason people always screw up in that last phase.

[apoe]

Ah good old mannoroth. Seen over 10 sub 10% wipes now, 5 of which were sub 5%, and one was 0.2%.

Warcraftlogs even showed the wipe as a 0% wipe, thanks for the PJsalt on my wounds.

I do almost the same DPS with padstorm vs ST, because the adds die within 2seconds of my padstorm.

And it basically does nothing once the imps stop coming (on heroic at least).

Difference between damage done on boss with ST and AOE setup is almost 25%.

Maybe I'll try out some arms action, to see if it will help out with some execute damage. For some reason people always screw up in that last phase.

I wouldn't recommend taking BS on heroic mannoroth, simply because the only difficult part of that fight is the last bit where there are no more add spawns and it's pure single target.

And if you want to cheese rankings, you'd take BS and tell everyone else in the raid to not AOE. lol

[Staubz]

guys , my arms sim and fury sim are pretty much the same even post nerf, im simming like 69400 arms vs 69658 fury(i dont remember correctly)

i feel like im fucking up on gearing my fury set, although i havent had much luck with random pieces of gear, and i was preparing my self with the craft gear and all the other things for arms that when the nerf hit i just said fuck it i dont give a shit, im not going to change shit..

but im gonna try to arms on some ST farm bosses next week to see whats up with that, im assuming even tho the MS doesnt reset as much just bursting that delicious execute might put me on the same dps as fury

edit: i have done reforge pots and all(btw for some reason it takes FOREVER to run it in my pc) and its making haste so valuable.. i thought after you get class trinket it would pretty much be a waste to invest any haste?

[Deleted]

so was skimming like always, every few days on all infos on warrs and on Icy V. , and as was taking fury once again from a to z to see who what when if something changed, and saw that BB went over Avatar for ST and SB went over AM also for ST, so took the WCL and se who what when if there something, and the result was not quite, as in not many changed to the so called better BB and SB for ST and most stood still with Avatar and AM, did i skipped some info rows or something ?

[Bigbazz]

so was skimming like always, every few days on all infos on warrs and on Icy V. , and as was taking fury once again from a to z to see who what when if something changed, and saw that BB went over Avatar for ST and SB went over AM also for ST, so took the WCL and se who what when if there something, and the result was not quite, as in not many changed to the so called better BB and SB for ST and most stood still with Avatar and AM, did i skipped some info rows or something ?

I just think it's a case of Icy Veins not being 100% accurate as usual, I know they say Archi checks over their guides but it's not what any of us are doing (using BB on ST as Fury that is), the go-to spec for Fury single target has been Avatar/AM for a while now even if BB was the primary single target choice earlier in the expansion.

Avatar/AM causes fairly decent lining up of cooldowns, though I'm not actually sure it will allow you to line up the legendary ring with Avatar if your raiders are using the ring directly on cooldown, since I've played primarily Arms in this tier I can't answer that one so clearly... At least in BRF and early HFC (before I switched Arms) it wasn't possible to get recklessness exactly down to 2mins, nor Avatar exactly down to 1min with AM, but you could get close enough that only a short delay would be needed and it lined up well... Again I can't speak much of how things work with the T18 - 4set bonus so much because I've played Arms for most of it.

Another reason for Avatar would be the Mannoroth trinket (Empty Drinking Horn) scales in damage with Avatar but does not scale with Bloodbath (because it only affects abilities).

[Deleted]

Another reason for Avatar would be the Mannoroth trinket (Empty Drinking Horn) scales in damage with Avatar but does not scale with Bloodbath (because it only affects abilities).

well whoop dee doo that EDH scales with Avatar, BUT I STILL DON'T HAVE IT /cry, after 6 kills on HC Mannoroth, the legged lizzard decided to drop it once and didn't get it (FUUUUK) tho is was between me and just another plate (retri) and what was also more nerve racking was that he already had it on NM so after last night kill on HC Archi to clear it with HC for this week took a look at the logs and didn't even do 50% more dmg on fel burn as some would expect, (guess i was optimistic when i said that maybe he'll get 25% more dmg on the dot than from NM version) from 2.2 mil fel burn done last week with NM trink last night was at the amazing dmg of 2.6 mil done with fel burn (tho the fight lasted 20 seconds less than lasts week kill) from the HC version of EDH, guess 400 k more dmg on fel bun from same guy was better than my around 2 mil that i would have done if i've gotten the trink, so yeah thats another week that ill have to do with no horn , and now gotta see in how many more kills with the trink drop again if the 1st time it dropped was on the 6th HC kill

p.s. didn't quite know on what to think about the info from Icy V. so felt right to get some more info on that b4 re-testing myself (also Archi said on some posts that he plans to re-write the guides from Icy V. and didn't knew if he was responsible with the new info there )

[Archimtiros]

I just think it's a case of Icy Veins not being 100% accurate as usual, I know they say Archi checks over their guides but it's not what any of us are doing (using BB on ST as Fury that is), the go-to spec for Fury single target has been Avatar/AM for a while now even if BB was the primary single target choice earlier in the expansion.

Avatar/AM causes fairly decent lining up of cooldowns, though I'm not actually sure it will allow you to line up the legendary ring with Avatar if your raiders are using the ring directly on cooldown, since I've played primarily Arms in this tier I can't answer that one so clearly... At least in BRF and early HFC (before I switched Arms) it wasn't possible to get recklessness exactly down to 2mins, nor Avatar exactly down to 1min with AM, but you could get close enough that only a short delay would be needed and it lined up well... Again I can't speak much of how things work with the T18 - 4set bonus so much because I've played Arms for most of it.

Another reason for Avatar would be the Mannoroth trinket (Empty Drinking Horn) scales in damage with Avatar but does not scale with Bloodbath (because it only affects abilities).

Icy-Veins doesn't work like websites like MMO-C, SentryTotem, etc. I don't write the guides, they do. I review them and tell them what to change/suggest information; and they put everything in their own words & layout. For this reason, some things get missed, others just don't get updated as frequently as they should.

They also do their guide changes in large rounds, so if one small thing changes, they aren't likely to update until there are more changes to add to it.

Regardless, I've always held IV as a great starting point. It's guides aren't super detailed, and they don't need to be. They give you step by step instructions on how to play, and a good overview on how the class handles. I would use it a lot when referencing a new class, or something I didn't have a lot of current experience with. They don't have to have every bit of latest and greatest, max dps information, because that isn't their audience, and it overcomplicates what should be a simple guide.

- - - Updated - - -

so was skimming like always, every few days on all infos on warrs and on Icy V. , and as was taking fury once again from a to z to see who what when if something changed, and saw that BB went over Avatar for ST and SB went over AM also for ST, so took the WCL and se who what when if there something, and the result was not quite, as in not many changed to the so called better BB and SB for ST and most stood still with Avatar and AM, did i skipped some info rows or something ?

Strictly speaking though, SBr is the best single target DPS talent for Fury if you aren't acutely aware of kill times, and/or don't manage AM correctly, which many players do not. AM is of course better in many other cases; and that information was relayed in that section (again in their words, not mine).

[Dreknar20]

so whats the reasoning behind bloodbath and avatar now?
See some warriors choosing bloodbath these days.