[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Trubo]

Did anybody sim race difference in fury? How much is it? It looks like Dwarf one is superior, plus pseudo-CoS.

So small that the only noticeable difference took 100k simulations before becoming apparent. But yeah, Collision I believe did sim the races against each other but I don't recall which thread it was in.

Think it was either that same post or page in the thread that using Heroic Leap for damage was a bigger damage increase than what race you picked.

[Milocow]

anyone how much crit % or ilvl u require for SD to beat UqT? or does SD always beat UqT?

[Deleted]

So small that the only noticeable difference took 100k simulations before becoming apparent. But yeah, Collision I believe did sim the races against each other but I don't recall which thread it was in.

Think it was either that same post or page in the thread that using Heroic Leap for damage was a bigger damage increase than what race you picked.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post29969788

[Satori]

Question regarding the clusterfuck that is our sub 20% rotation.

I'm not sure how to look at the DPR for Execute with the consume extra rage stuff, but is it high enough that we never RB below 20%? The guide says so, but I hate wasting resources and at first glance RB stomps Execute's DPR (though loses horribly in DPE). Or would we ever delay BT by a GCD like in MoP? Still get rid of Bloodsurge asap right?

Also: do you only execute with 40 rage?

[Deleted]

for longer Execute phases, you can't really spam in between BT's, you'll just ragestarve yourself, that's what I found last night at least. I think Archi saw similar behaviour in one of his posts about this.
You could go with BT - Exe - RB - BT for prolonged 20% phases, or BT-Exe x2 - BT for burst phases

[Deleted]

I have been reading many "guides" and beta experiences concerning the garrison buildings. I also looked at LFR nhc and HC Highmaul (which is apparently our first big raid) drops which leaves me with the following assumption:

The ideal garrison set up seem to be Barn (for the savage blood, in addition you can get even more savage blood via auction house), the forge (and you gotta be a BS at the same time in order to get most out of your work orders), the lumber mill (faster resources), the baracks or inn (still hard to guess, inn will increase size of followers but baracks seems to offer the most value, especially the raid missions), the salvage yard (again, faster gearing of your followers resulting in faster access to important missions and raid quality gear) and a last lvl 1 building of your choice (hurraaaay).

When you take a look at all this, it seems to me that the ROI is just not justifying the huge time investment, especially considering the fact that the Gear (the goal of all this crap) is of 630 ilvl quality (this can be augmentet but hell, why do you run the blackhand raid if you already got 560 gear???). So basically, you have to invest a hell lot of a time in order to get these 630-640 gear pieces.

Person b however can just finish the hc dungeons and is directly raid ready (at least for highmaul Nhc) where he is going to aquire 650 ilvl gear (if he got the garrosh heirlooms he doesnt even need to farm hc weapons since he already got 2 630´s!).

What do you guys think? Taking all this into account, i just think that the crafted sets are just not worth it and that you should focus on getting into highmaul nhc/hc.

[Archimtiros]

Action list currently uses BT - Exe - Exe - BT ; prioritizing Bloodsurge procs (free damage from 2x WS, that rage rolls back into another Execute down the line) and RB when you can't Execute.

In practice this means if your rage is high you'll continually use Execute, if you start starving you use RB. This works pretty effectively with good gear and a high crit rate, and you still use a decent number of RB procs.

I've tested BT - Exe - RB - BT extensively as well, but I find myself creeping high on rage, especially when I use Bloodsurge. I suspect with lower gear it would be the more easily sustainable rotation though, since it controls rage better. If you use it, you simply follow the above in reverse; instead of using RB when rage is low, just use another Execute if rage gets high. Continue prioritizing Bloodsurge.

Either way ends up pretty close to one another. The first wastes some RB's but as long as you don't rage starve and find yourself unable to RB, wasting procs is fine.
The second feels a bit safer for lower gear, because it uses your rage in smaller amounts, keeping you from starving. Try them both, see how they feel, differences should be pretty minor.

- - - Updated - - -

I have been reading many "guides" and beta experiences concerning the garrison buildings. I also looked at LFR nhc and HC Highmaul (which is apparently our first big raid) drops which leaves me with the following assumption:

The ideal garrison set up seem to be Barn (for the savage blood, in addition you can get even more savage blood via auction house), the forge (and you gotta be a BS at the same time in order to get most out of your work orders), the lumber mill (faster resources), the baracks or inn (still hard to guess, inn will increase size of followers but baracks seems to offer the most value, especially the raid missions), the salvage yard (again, faster gearing of your followers resulting in faster access to important missions and raid quality gear) and a last lvl 1 building of your choice (hurraaaay).

When you take a look at all this, it seems to me that the ROI is just not justifying the huge time investment, especially considering the fact that the Gear (the goal of all this crap) is of 630 ilvl quality (this can be augmentet but hell, why do you run the blackhand raid if you already got 560 gear???). So basically, you have to invest a hell lot of a time in order to get these 630-640 gear pieces.

Person b however can just finish the hc dungeons and is directly raid ready (at least for highmaul Nhc) where he is going to aquire 650 ilvl gear (if he got the garrosh heirlooms he doesnt even need to farm hc weapons since he already got 2 630´s!).

What do you guys think? Taking all this into account, i just think that the crafted sets are just not worth it and that you should focus on getting into highmaul nhc/hc.

Trading Post in place of the Lumber Mill depending on what you need. Lumber Mill gives resources, but you have nothing to use those on if you don't have a Post. Post uses resources to get you extra crafting mats, which given the large number of mats required to make anything, I think you'll need unless you run a couple gathering alts.

An argument can be made for the storehouse, but they've made some changes to it, so I'm going to go back and take a look before I pass judgement. I think it can be done without now unless you are the type of player that only likes to log on once a week, and in which case crafting probably isn't going to work out for you anyways!

Keep in mind, follower raid missions won't appear until much later in the tier, so I wouldn't worry about those just yet.

Edit: Also just a quick tack on; there are two versions of flasks in Warlords as well. They both require a couple BoP items to make, which are gained from either the Alchemy daily cooldown or the garrison building work order. The lesser flask can be made by the building, but the greater can only be made by an actual alchemist. Even though the Flasks aren't BoP, because of all this pain, the market economy for them is likely going to be ridiculous.

This means if you are planning to do serious raiding and you want easy access to the best flasks, you either need the profession or an alt to do it. If you want that and to craft some epic gear ready by raid time, expect to level 3-4 toons in the first week. But hey, at least flasks don't require Savage Blood!

[Satori]

Action list currently uses BT - Exe - Exe - BT ; prioritizing Bloodsurge procs (free damage from 2x WS, that rage rolls back into another Execute down the line) and RB when you can't Execute.

In practice this means if your rage is high you'll continually use Execute, if you start starving you use RB. This works pretty effectively with good gear and a high crit rate, and you still use a decent number of RB procs.

I've tested BT - Exe - RB - BT extensively as well, but I find myself creeping high on rage, especially when I use Bloodsurge. I suspect with lower gear it would be the more easily sustainable rotation though, since it controls rage better. If you use it, you simply follow the above in reverse; instead of using RB when rage is low, just use another Execute if rage gets high. Continue prioritizing Bloodsurge.

Either way ends up pretty close to one another. The first wastes some RB's but as long as you don't rage starve and find yourself unable to RB, wasting procs is fine.
The second feels a bit safer for lower gear, because it uses your rage in smaller amounts, keeping you from starving. Try them both, see how they feel, differences should be pretty minor.

Thanks. Do you still execute below 40 rage?

[Archimtiros]

Thanks. Do you still execute below 40 rage?

Yes, long as the button is lit up.

[Deleted]

Action list currently uses BT - Exe - Exe - BT ; prioritizing Bloodsurge procs (free damage from 2x WS, that rage rolls back into another Execute down the line) and RB when you can't Execute.

In practice this means if your rage is high you'll continually use Execute, if you start starving you use RB. This works pretty effectively with good gear and a high crit rate, and you still use a decent number of RB procs.

I've tested BT - Exe - RB - BT extensively as well, but I find myself creeping high on rage, especially when I use Bloodsurge. I suspect with lower gear it would be the more easily sustainable rotation though, since it controls rage better. If you use it, you simply follow the above in reverse; instead of using RB when rage is low, just use another Execute if rage gets high. Continue prioritizing Bloodsurge.

Either way ends up pretty close to one another. The first wastes some RB's but as long as you don't rage starve and find yourself unable to RB, wasting procs is fine.
The second feels a bit safer for lower gear, because it uses your rage in smaller amounts, keeping you from starving. Try them both, see how they feel, differences should be pretty minor.

- - - Updated - - -



Trading Post in place of the Lumber Mill depending on what you need. Lumber Mill gives resources, but you have nothing to use those on if you don't have a Post. Post uses resources to get you extra crafting mats, which given the large number of mats required to make anything, I think you'll need unless you run a couple gathering alts.

An argument can be made for the storehouse, but they've made some changes to it, so I'm going to go back and take a look before I pass judgement. I think it can be done without now unless you are the type of player that only likes to log on once a week, and in which case crafting probably isn't going to work out for you anyways!

Keep in mind, follower raid missions won't appear until much later in the tier, so I wouldn't worry about those just yet.

Edit: Also just a quick tack on; there are two versions of flasks in Warlords as well. They both require a couple BoP items to make, which are gained from either the Alchemy daily cooldown or the garrison building work order. The lesser flask can be made by the building, but the greater can only be made by an actual alchemist. Even though the Flasks aren't BoP, because of all this pain, the market economy for them is likely going to be ridiculous.

This means if you are planning to do serious raiding and you want easy access to the best flasks, you either need the profession or an alt to do it. If you want that and to craft some epic gear ready by raid time, expect to level 3-4 toons in the first week. But hey, at least flasks don't require Savage Blood!

Thank you for clarifying this (as well as the Exe rotation, was also questioning myself but did the right thing by just following my instincts xD).

All in all, the garrison stuff seems to be too grindy.....i think i am just going to pick whatever sounds "cool" and not the craft-related buildings (except my bs building). Savage blood and the related barn quests seem to be the most boring and dull activites in whole draenor...so no thanks, i am gladly paying for it via the ah. On the other hand it is very hard to decide upon the correct buildings......i dont want to make any crucial mistakes but considering the fact that highmaul will be a) relatively easy to enter and b)offers even better gear just makes those grindy crafting sets rather stupid. I think i will stick to the fun goblin workshop and the stable building (both sound pretty fun imo). But maybe Archi is coming up with an awesome garrison guide, mentioning the mandatory buildings that we just NEED to build xD!

BTW Thanks for your awesome warrior work, you really helped me to improve my WoD Playstyle. You are also active on the sentrytotem website aren´t you? (even though I really don´t understand this website to be completely honest).

[Deleted]

Trading Post in place of the Lumber Mill depending on what you need. Lumber Mill gives resources, but you have nothing to use those on if you don't have a Post. Post uses resources to get you extra crafting mats, which given the large number of mats required to make anything, I think you'll need unless you run a couple gathering alts.

An argument can be made for the storehouse, but they've made some changes to it, so I'm going to go back and take a look before I pass judgement. I think it can be done without now unless you are the type of player that only likes to log on once a week, and in which case crafting probably isn't going to work out for you anyways!

Keep in mind, follower raid missions won't appear until much later in the tier, so I wouldn't worry about those just yet.

You can use resources on the war mill to get more follower upgrades and while raid missions need some time to appear they will still be a major factor for 90% of all raiders (if the first mission is available within 3-4 weeks after release it is also important for the top 0.1%). Besides that, if you don't plan to perma check the spires vendor every 10 minutes you need so much resources to fully upgrade all your garrison buildings that you won't have any additional resources to buy materials. The auto generation barely supplies follower missions and even with a lumber mill it takes days to generate enough resources for meaningful upgrades. I doubt that trading post mats will be affordable the first two months and even then it's a stack of herbs every 4? hours.

That being said, the current version of the storehouse is truly useless (at least for active people), but keep in mind that Salvage Yard is mandatory, so most of the small spots are already occupied.

[Deleted]

I'm very confused atm...Trying to learn 6.0 Fury, but I don't really understand the priority rotation for single target. If I have Sudden Death, is it BR > WS (90+) > RB (2 stacks, only use one) > BT (under 80) > RB > WS > DR/ST? (And ofcourse prio on Execute.)

And if I use Furious Strikes, should I just replace the RB (2 stacks) with WS?

[Deleted]

You can use resources on the war mill to get more follower upgrades and while raid missions need some time to appear they will still be a major factor for 90% of all raiders (if the first mission is available within 3-4 weeks after release it is also important for the top 0.1%). Besides that, if you don't plan to perma check the spires vendor every 10 minutes you need so much resources to fully upgrade all your garrison buildings that you won't have any additional resources to buy materials. The auto generation barely supplies follower missions and even with a lumber mill it takes days to generate enough resources for meaningful upgrades. I doubt that trading post mats will be affordable the first two months and even then it's a stack of herbs every 4? hours.

That being said, the current version of the storehouse is truly useless (at least for active people), but keep in mind that Salvage Yard is mandatory, so most of the small spots are already occupied.

Dont get me wrong i am a die hard Transmog fan but the war mill lvl 3 bonus? you can buy all 3 bonus rolls with enough gold so why waste this spot with this particular building?

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btw, does somebody now the min. ilvl required to enter Highmaul nhc?

[Satori]

Because War Mill provides you follower upgrades, which in turn let you complete the harder missions that can reward you raid loot appropriate to the difficulty you're progressing on. Once you have a good team set up you can drop it for something else.

For starting progression my list of mandatory buildings is: Salvage Yard, Barn, Trading Post or Lumber Mill (depending on whether you want to spend time or money), Barracks and War Mill.

I'd also weave an Inn before getting Barn at lvl 100.

[Bizerk]

You should get barn right away so you can start doing the lvl3 barn schematic achievement.

[Satori]

You can buy the blueprints.

[Deleted]

Dont get me wrong i am a die hard Transmog fan but the war mill lvl 3 bonus? you can buy all 3 bonus rolls with enough gold so why waste this spot with this particular building?

It's not about the level 3 bonus. At level 2 you can create follower weapons and armor (via work orders paid by resources) which allow you to upgrade your followers' item level. Once one of your followers' item level has reached 645 the raid loot rewarding missions get unlocked, which have a higher success rate depending on the item level of every participating follower (3 for these missions).
The only two other sources of item upgrades are available via special missions and the salvage yard. These missions are very rare, so these are not a reliable source. I've actively played with the follower system the last two weeks and with 20 followers it took me over one week to get enough upgrades via the salvage yard to get one follower to 645 (and I was quite lucky and got 3 epic upgrades during that time). So if you want to maximize your success rate for these missions the War Mill is an important tool.
Keep in mind, since resource generation is abysmal low right now it probably takes some time until you can really use your resources with the war mill, so it is possible you will have one or two followers with a high ilvl.

[Trubo]

Because War Mill provides you follower upgrades, which in turn let you complete the harder missions that can reward you raid loot appropriate to the difficulty you're progressing on. Once you have a good team set up you can drop it for something else.

For starting progression my list of mandatory buildings is: Salvage Yard, Barn, Trading Post or Lumber Mill (depending on whether you want to spend time or money), Barracks and War Mill.

I'd also weave an Inn before getting Barn at lvl 100.

The Salvage Yard should provide you with all of the Follower upgrades you'd ever need.

You can buy the blueprints.

My understanding is that you can't use the blueprint until you've gotten the Master Trapper meta achievement, so you'll still have to build a barn on your first character at least. Either way, you still have to build the level 1 and 2 versions of the barn before level 3, correct?

[CollisionTD]

When did this become a garrison guide? :P

( I know nothing of garrisons )

[Deleted]

I'm very confused atm...Trying to learn 6.0 Fury, but I don't really understand the priority rotation for single target. If I have Sudden Death, is it BR > WS (90+) > RB (2 stacks, only use one) > BT (under 80) > RB > WS > DR/ST? (And ofcourse prio on Execute.)

And if I use Furious Strikes, should I just replace the RB (2 stacks) with WS?

Would really like to know the answer to this. ^^