[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Archimtiros]

While it sucks spamming BT until you are enraged, it's true that I guess it's better than just sitting there autoattacking waiting for next BT indeed.

I was thinking of something like resetting the cooldown if 2 or 3 consecutive BT's don't crit in a row refresh the cd and the next has a bit more increased crit chance. You usually fit in 2 BTs in an enrage window anyway (with 3rd one not being far off, as long as you keep using it on CD) so it would be a decent solution without spamming BT until it crits. Or perhaps a mechanics to reset cd of BzR in a similar fashion, I just hate that BT spam, especially as it hits like a wet noodle :/

What really gets at me the is when horn procs and BrZ is off cooldown and you go into an unlucky streak. All that mastery! All that potential wasted

Way back in beta I'd suggested a BzR mechanic, basically BT reduced the CD of BzR by X seconds and it worked so that BzR lined up with every Colossus Smash. This worked at the time because we focused so much on CS, and could be forgiven for doing less outside of it. In a world without CS though, that doesn't really help.

Ultimately, I consider any BzR mechanic or stacking crit buff to be a half measure. It doesn't fix the full problem. Stacking crit works fine for Mages because if Fireball doesn't crit... they recast Fireball. There is no downtime.

Conversely it doens't work for Bloodthirst because it has a cooldown, and being locked out from actions for 4s+ isn't fun. Its a total design flaw. I've yet to meet a single person in this game who said "man Enhancement Shamans would be so much more fun if I only pressed Storm Strike once every 5 seconds and nothing else!" Or any such similar nonsense. Players like being engaged, they like pressing buttons. Sure it can be over done (cough:Gladiator90+APManyone?), but it isn't a whole lot to ask players to keep up with 40-70 APM.

When you think about it, it undermines the whole Haste idea too. Its another example of erratic, incoherent design. There is no point to shorten GCDs when you don't fill GCDs. Arms is a prime example. It sounds good but just doesn't work out in practice. It would be so much better to put things on a standard GCD so that you can more accurately measure APM and set a better tempo for the rotation.

[Sethanor]

i was suggesting a 100% crit-chance on BT since WoD Beta started and then account for the dmg gain somewhere else...

there is 1 "problem" tho: it would devalue crit (alltho imo not THAT much) ... but we have enough rng as is and not having to stack crit as a warrior would be smth new for once XD

it also would fix the bullshit that our mastery depends on crit all the way ... i've said it countless times: having one secondary stat depend 100% on another secondary is just fubar!

also: T17-2p should become a baseline passive to account for the dumb thing that you have to use your worst single-target attack in aoe situations (just feels dumb)

edit: spelling

[Deleted]

Way back in beta I'd suggested a BzR mechanic, basically BT reduced the CD of BzR by X seconds and it worked so that BzR lined up with every Colossus Smash. This worked at the time because we focused so much on CS, and could be forgiven for doing less outside of it. In a world without CS though, that doesn't really help.

Ultimately, I consider any BzR mechanic or stacking crit buff to be a half measure. It doesn't fix the full problem. Stacking crit works fine for Mages because if Fireball doesn't crit... they recast Fireball. There is no downtime.

Conversely it doens't work for Bloodthirst because it has a cooldown, and being locked out from actions for 4s+ isn't fun. Its a total design flaw. I've yet to meet a single person in this game who said "man Enhancement Shamans would be so much more fun if I only pressed Storm Strike once every 5 seconds and nothing else!" Or any such similar nonsense. Players like being engaged, they like pressing buttons. Sure it can be over done (cough:Gladiator90+APManyone?), but it isn't a whole lot to ask players to keep up with 40-70 APM.

When you think about it, it undermines the whole Haste idea too. Its another example of erratic, incoherent design. There is no point to shorten GCDs when you don't fill GCDs. Arms is a prime example. It sounds good but just doesn't work out in practice. It would be so much better to put things on a standard GCD so that you can more accurately measure APM and set a better tempo for the rotation.

Yeah I get what you mean, I was suggesting rather than a stacking buff a protection such as if 2 BTs don't crit the third one will, rather than just spamming noodle-damage BTs fishing for the enrage :P. Either will work really, as you said it's really boring to just sit there and wait, and infuriating when it happens during trinket procs. Altho it's been that way for a while, so sadly I don't imagine they're gonna do anything about it. However it feels better than in mop at least with the 8 second enrage time and the 40% base crit, some improvement is better than none I suppose. Also since we don't have CS, the pain of not being enraged during a CS is gone, that was really frustrating as well.

[cast]

Any thoughts on Glyph of Recklessness with 4p + avatar + scabbard?

Edit: I know glyph doesn't increase 4p. I know it's been asked several times before. With the change to avatar then surely this glyph must have an increased value?

[Deleted]

Haven't got the math for you, but if something is not dps boost in the first place, then a % modifier on top of it shouldn't make it any better/different.

[Deleted]

Any thoughts on Glyph of Recklessness with 4p + avatar + scabbard?

Edit: I know glyph doesn't increase 4p. I know it's been asked several times before. With the change to avatar then surely this glyph must have an increased value?

Why would it have increased value, the 4p effect lasts 14 seconds on both, so how is avatar cooldown going down from 3min to 1.5 min cooldown going affect the value of this glyph?

[cross34]

hi,

what is the targetted 9% haste cap for? should i be able to fit an extra (from 2 to 3) gcd inbetween BTs? or is it to reduce the "delay" between the 2nd gcd and BT?

thanks!

[Deleted]

Why not change the way enrage works:

- BT still gives enrage with 8 sec duration
- Enrage duration is capped at 12 sec (maybe 16?)
- Active enraged buff duration is extended by a critting BT (or 2pc raging blow) to a maximum of 12 (16?) sec

[cast]

Why would it have increased value, the 4p effect lasts 14 seconds on both, so how is avatar cooldown going down from 3min to 1.5 min cooldown going affect the value of this glyph?

The change to avatar made it viable, and the duration of Avatar is 20 seconds. With the glyph you get a 15 sec recklessness, which means you get recklessness for a bigger duration of your avatar, as well as other powerups like potion, proc trinkets not going off right away, bloodlust etc.

Ignore the fact that I said 4p, it's not the 4p that makes me think it has an increased value, I already said I know it's still a static duration. It is the buff to avatar and power of using avatar with scabbard that makes me think the glyph has a bigger value now. This and the fact that the amount of crit you get from reck with 4p is silly high.

Why not change the way enrage works:

- BT still gives enrage with 8 sec duration
- Enrage duration is capped at 12 sec (maybe 16?)
- Active enraged buff duration is extended by a critting BT (or 2pc raging blow) to a maximum of 12 (16?) sec

^ This. They've already added buff/debuff extending 50% to other classes and abilities.

[Ryanite]

Why not change the way enrage works:

- BT still gives enrage with 8 sec duration
- Enrage duration is capped at 12 sec (maybe 16?)
- Active enraged buff duration is extended by a critting BT (or 2pc raging blow) to a maximum of 12 (16?) sec

Like Arch said it's not only about not being enraged it's that if you don't crit atm you lose out on 3 fronts, 1 less rage, 2 no raging blow proc and 3 no enrage which makes you not want to use any abilites. Your suggestion only fixes the 3rd point where as Arch's idea fixes them all.

I honestly would love to be able re-press bloodthirst as many times as needed in order to get the crit and continue with my rotation as I'd be compensated with extra rage from having to press bloodthirst. When you read it in writing it sounds like just spam bloodthirst fest but I guarantee that during combat it will only make your rotation feel complete and you'd barely even notice, so instead of pressing bloodthirst being frustrated you didn't get a proc then have to wait 5 seconds you can take your anger out on bloodthirst and press the shit out of it.

I've had up to 5ish non crit streaks, with this new method I'd have only used up 5 globals aka 5 seconds instead of 25+ 5 sec for each global and it would barely even feel like 5 seconds since I'm busy pressing buttons, I'd most definitely get above 90 rage and be able to also throw a wild strike in there.

Plus we all know no ones gonna take unquenchable thirst in a million years, so we'd also get a new talent choice.

[Deleted]

The change to avatar made it viable, and the duration of Avatar is 20 seconds. With the glyph you get a 15 sec recklessness, which means you get recklessness for a bigger duration of your avatar, as well as other powerups like potion, proc trinkets not going off right away, bloodlust etc.

Ignore the fact that I said 4p, it's not the 4p that makes me think it has an increased value, I already said I know it's still a static duration. It is the buff to avatar and power of using avatar with scabbard that makes me think the glyph has a bigger value now. This and the fact that the amount of crit you get from reck with 4p is silly high.

Avatar was still viable on some set duration fights (e.g. Mythic Butcher), by your logic it should've been good on those fights as well, but it isn't now and it wasn't then.

The silly crit part of the reck comes at the end, so you still need the crit from reck at the start since everything is going to proc within the first 2 seconds of the fight including your sudden death execute.

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When you read it in writing it sounds like just spam bloodthirst fest but I guarantee that during combat it will only make your rotation feel complete and you'd barely even notice

Well no need to contemplate, the mechanic is already there via UqT, so pretty sure most people know exactly how it feels.

Though I don't personally like spamming BT like that, it would be hell of a lot better than the alternative (current situation), I mean what could possibly be worse than just sitting there doing nothing :P

[Firebert]

i was suggesting a 100% crit-chance on BT since WoD Beta started and then account for the dmg gain somewhere else...

there is 1 "problem" tho: it would devalue crit (alltho imo not THAT much)

Just have the Chaos Bolt treatment done to it: Crit Chance increases BT's Crit Damage % instead.

[Artunias]

I'd be in full support of non bt crits not incurring the bt cooldown. It's just so damned aggravating. O you didn't crit 3-4 bloodthirsts in a row? Welcome to dumpsterville. Population: You. You can use BrZ to alleviate this occasionally, but it's hardly a reliable method when crit rng just decides to spread cheek and ram cock in ass.

[rashy]

Just have the Chaos Bolt treatment done to it: Crit Chance increases BT's Crit Damage % instead.

Yeah, I'd love it if my #12 damaging ability hit for 25% harder. Lets push it up to #11!

[Firebert]

Yeah, I'd love it if my #12 damaging ability hit for 25% harder. Lets push it up to #11!

That's not the point. If crit devaluation's a problem it's an obvious solution.

[Bigbazz]

Yeah, I'd love it if my #12 damaging ability hit for 25% harder. Lets push it up to #11!

Don't try to tell me that those 4k crits don't get you wet.

[Warrco]

Don't try to tell me that those 4k crits don't get you wet.

Mine crit for 4.9k once, I had to get a bucket.

[rashy]

The damage you might miss out from any devaluation of crit chance won't be coming from BT in the first place. It would be coming from lost crits from abilities that actually do more than arbitrary damage.

4k? I'm not that geared, settle down mates.

[Firebert]

The damage you might miss out from any devaluation of crit chance won't be coming from BT in the first place. It would be coming from lost crits from abilities that actually do more than arbitrary damage.

I agree with you, hence the "If" in my previous post.

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Yeah, I'd love it if my #12 damaging ability hit for 25% harder. Lets push it up to #11!

BT overall deals a(2x+(1-x))) damage, where a is the base damage and x is your crit chance.
With the change, it'd deal 2a(1+x) damage. Both a and x cancel when taking a ratio, and it just totals out to doubling BT's damage (and preserves crit scaling).

A bit more than 25%. But as others have said, BT's damage isn't why you hit BT.

[Artunias]

Working on Mythic Kromog last night, what are some of you using on that fight? Hand damage doesn't really matter, feels like avatar is the best for pillars as trembling earth can fuck up the positioning needed for Bladestorm to hit two pillars.