[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Fog]

Hello all. I have a few questions if you have a moment. First let me clarify that I'm not at mythic level, nor will I probably ever be. Heroic is pretty much the extent of what I'll ever accomplish and I'm okay with that. On that note....

1. I've read, I think, that at some point Mastery starts to rapidly catch up with crit as our prime secondary stat. Is this true, and if so, is this really only a problem I'll ever see if I made it to mythic levels of gear? Should I continue to stack as much crit as possible with heroic items?

2. I still have scabbard, but I am starting to get heroic BRF trinkets. Next week I should start seeing mythic caches, but none the less. Is scabbard pretty much still good for aoe fights and fights that I use Avatar and can line them up for strong bursts?

Thanks for any help!

1. Even with mythic levels of gear, you don't really need to worry that much about it. Not this tier, unless you get socket and warforged on every item for stat inflation. Feel safe to dish out those crit gems and enchants!

2. Scabbard is still a strong trinket, and with the avatar combo it still holds up. However, once you get both horn and vial, you'll see scabbard lose its value greatly. It still has its uses, but that depends mostly on fight lengts and general timing.
The best part of scabbard/avatar is that your burst is godlike, but if burst is the only thing you use it for you'll gain more from the passive strength of other trinkets.

[Deleted]

Hello all. I have a few questions if you have a moment. First let me clarify that I'm not at mythic level, nor will I probably ever be. Heroic is pretty much the extent of what I'll ever accomplish and I'm okay with that. On that note....

1. I've read, I think, that at some point Mastery starts to rapidly catch up with crit as our prime secondary stat. Is this true, and if so, is this really only a problem I'll ever see if I made it to mythic levels of gear? Should I continue to stack as much crit as possible with heroic items?

2. I still have scabbard, but I am starting to get heroic BRF trinkets. Next week I should start seeing mythic caches, but none the less. Is scabbard pretty much still good for aoe fights and fights that I use Avatar and can line them up for strong bursts?

Thanks for any help!

You might find this post by Collision useful, just compare the values with your character sheet, doesn't matter whether you're mythic or heroic geared. This is ofcorse generalized weights, you can get more accurate values by simming your character. I don't know whether you have 4set or not, if you don't then these values might be a bit off for you, but still might be useful to see for when you get it.

Just re-posting this because I tweaked it somewhat, and I need to edit all my old posts at some point.

Stat Weights

Strength: 1.0
Crit Below 25%: 0.65
Crit Above 25%: 0.58
Mastery: 0.55-0.65~ (Depends on how much crit/haste you have)
Haste below 11% - 0.65
Haste inbetween 11-18% - 0.58
Haste over 18%: 0.50
Multistrike: 0.55
Versatility: 0.42

These are done with T17 4P and Sudden Death. Yes, there are a lot of 0.58/0.65s there, and that was done intentionally. If you're at 25% crit and 11-18% haste, there is no way I can tell you if haste, mastery or crit is your best stat. There are too many variables that could shift it around.

I can give a few generalizations. These numbers are ALL raid-buffed.

11% Haste > 25% Crit > 14% haste ~=> mastery ~=> 18% haste > more crit > multistrike > more haste > versatility

(~=> is my way of saying it's technically better, but it really doesn't make a damn difference.)

The crit numbers are on the character tooltip, so they do not include 3% suppression.

[omnipotynt]

Thanks man, great information here!

[Sethanor]

so i was doing a fuckton of sims about "SB vs DR" using 700 bis gear (no wf, no sockets) and no matter what kind of single-target situation i take into account, SB is ahead about 2-3% on EVERY one (i id simulations with combinations of avatar, bb, am, sbreaker and timelengths of 300 to 500 (including every 50 step in between))...

i'd consider that a significant difference (i wouldnt care if it was less than 1% difference), but how is that coming ... wasnt DR supposed to be equal on high gear-levels due to gcd-locking etc??

kinda confused atm, any of you want to elaborate on that? thx

[sjsctt]

DR is just easier to use, and as soon as it hits an additional target, it covers that gap easily.

[Archimtiros]

so i was doing a fuckton of sims about "SB vs DR" using 700 bis gear (no wf, no sockets) and no matter what kind of single-target situation i take into account, SB is ahead about 2-3% on EVERY one (i id simulations with combinations of avatar, bb, am, sbreaker and timelengths of 300 to 500 (including every 50 step in between))...

i'd consider that a significant difference (i wouldnt care if it was less than 1% difference), but how is that coming ... wasnt DR supposed to be equal on high gear-levels due to gcd-locking etc??

kinda confused atm, any of you want to elaborate on that? thx

Like Orczz said, Storm Bolt is ahead of DR, it can just be annoying to use because of the extra GCD, and the difference is very minor. 2-3% really is nothing. I loved Storm Bolt in 5.4 but now it is just another thing to get in the way of an already bunched up rotation.

In a similar vein, Siegebreaker can often be more powerful than AM, even with an extra Reck but it is a lot more annoying to use so many people forgo it.

[Deleted]

Like Orczz said, Storm Bolt is ahead of DR, it can just be annoying to use because of the extra GCD, and the difference is very minor. 2-3% really is nothing. I loved Storm Bolt in 5.4 but now it is just another thing to get in the way of an already bunched up rotation.

In a similar vein, Siegebreaker can often be more powerful than AM, even with an extra Reck but it is a lot more annoying to use so many people forgo it.

Imo SBr and SB make fury rotation much more enjoyable, but you also enjoy playing Arms, so I think we're on a totally different stance there :P

[Archimtiros]

Imo SBr and SB make fury rotation much more enjoyable, but you also enjoy playing Arms, so I think we're on a totally different stance there :P

They do but they also get in the way at higher gear. I would enjoy them more if the rotation was more static, or at least not punished by getting procs. The point I was trying to make is that they are easier to screw up or cause complications, thus most players don't bother with the slight DPS gain.

[Sethanor]

allright, thx...

well 2-3% might not be too much for the general player, but for mythic it might matter, thats why i'm asking... was just a bit confused or lets say i didnt expect it to be more than 1%

[Archimtiros]

allright, thx...

well 2-3% might not be too much for the general player, but for mythic it might matter, thats why i'm asking... was just a bit confused or lets say i didnt expect it to be more than 1%

Edit: Scratch this, I'm replying to the wrong thread. Sleep is important people!

[stevenho]

How is 2-3% "nothing"? That's over 1000 DPS, a lot to me.

[Archimtiros]

How is 2-3% "nothing"? That's over 1000 DPS, a lot to me.

Edit: Shit sorry, I'm replying to the wrong thread. It's late, getting my wires crossed. Though this was the DPS racials thread.

[Sethanor]

hehe thats allright.

wouldnt mind if you elaborate on that again after you got some sleep :P

[Deleted]

I think we can all agree that with optimal play SB is better than DR single target, I definitely run SB on grull where it is very useful if you get petrified. I would run it on Oregorger too because you can DPS boxes from far away. Any fight where you might be able to sneak in a 2nd target DR pulls ahead IMO, on blackhand if you're upstairs dragons roar wins, on Kromog with hands DR wins.

Another thought, stormbolt might pull ahead in practice because you can cast it on the way in on pull, putting it on CD for the opening burst phase. I always find that I can't get an open GCD to cast dragons roar until well after the pull on most fights.

[sjsctt]

How is 2-3% "nothing"? That's over 1000 DPS, a lot to me.

I agree. That is why I take SB on Gruul, but realistically, on every other fight, you are better off with Dragon Roar. Well....except when the raid bitches about the knockback that we can't glyph out of, and I have to switch to a different talent on Darmac...

[Sethanor]

knockback as a warrior is just plain stupid to begin with ...

make dragonroar a knockdown ... same with siegebreaker, make it a normal stun or knockdown or just revamp cause copy/pasting stormbolt is just the biggest slap in our faces that could have happened for a 100 talent.

stormbolting on the way to the boss? ... that seems counterproductive as you wont have any procs etc up, so you basically waste your first stormbolt

[Deleted]

Sorry if this has been asked already , but does the reck glyph reduce the 4p17 6% /s gain?

[Deleted]

Another thought, stormbolt might pull ahead in practice because you can cast it on the way in on pull, putting it on CD for the opening burst phase. I always find that I can't get an open GCD to cast dragons roar until well after the pull on most fights.

I thought Stormbolt is higher damage than RB when cast on bosses, so unless that's not true, that is probably not optimal, since you will have every proc imaginable at the pull. I don't know if an argument can be made for the chance of RB proccing another RB, hence making it more valuable to use on the pull, but I would assume in most scenarios there will be gaps in which you can't just spam RB when not blessed by the RNG gods, which you would fill with a SB.

[Mogai]

Sorry if this has been asked already , but does the reck glyph reduce the 4p17 6% /s gain?

pretty sure its mentioned on the first post of this thread.

[Archimtiros]

Sorry if this has been asked already , but does the reck glyph reduce the 4p17 6% /s gain?

PM Collision, he loves these questions.

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knockback as a warrior is just plain stupid to begin with ...

make dragonroar a knockdown ... same with siegebreaker, make it a normal stun or knockdown or just revamp cause copy/pasting stormbolt is just the biggest slap in our faces that could have happened for a 100 talent.

stormbolting on the way to the boss? ... that seems counterproductive as you wont have any procs etc up, so you basically waste your first stormbolt

Dragon Roar is a knockdown. Siegebreaker would be fine if it knocked back the target far enough to charge it (and that actually generated rage).

And yes, I wouldn't storm bolt on the way to the boss (mid charge). You'd be missing procs, or start them early, and need to blow BzR to get Enrage up.