[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[CollisionTD]

For those worried about furious strikes spam, don't. At the moment it will take Mythic T18 gear to even consider replacing T17 4P. The T18 bonuses are trash, and are not worth changing talents for, as even without furious strikes the cooldown on recklessness is reduced to 50 seconds.

[Archimtiros]

arms MIGHT get better with 6.2 tho ... fury, not so much.
you should instead start hoping that this is the final tier in WoD so we can get over with this crap-storm and move on :P

on topic: playing with double mythic kromog 1h mace atm, omg, 19% haste (cause some bad items still), but for SMF it feels pretty good, rage-flow is so smooth >.<

I dunno what you mean by that. Really Arms doesn't change at all, given that it is a very static spec and not largely influenced by inflation. Fury on the other hand will gain increased reliability through Crit, the Haste trinket will speed up the rotation somewhat (though still limited by Wild Strike and Enrage).

[Madcowlol]

That new trinket in hellfire from gorefriend looks sex, static crit + strenght on proc

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124236/i...hunger&bonus=0

[CollisionTD]

BIS trinkets are very likely to be the fury-spec trinket and the stacking dot, with the fel cleave trinket being used on significant aoe.

That 4th trinket you listed will be a good trinket, no doubt, but it will be slightly below the others.

Also, yes, the dot/cleave trinkets do scale with mastery.

[uberlag]

For SMF, is 2x Mythic Kromogs Brutal Fist actually better than 2x Taner's? Simcraft has 2x Kromogs as the optimal setup

[Sethanor]

I dunno what you mean by that. Really Arms doesn't change at all, given that it is a very static spec and not largely influenced by inflation. Fury on the other hand will gain increased reliability through Crit, the Haste trinket will speed up the rotation somewhat (though still limited by Wild Strike and Enrage).

what i meant is, that arms MIGHT get more fun than it currently is with T18 boni + archi-trinket, cause we get parts of our old playstyle back. (just a guess form reading stuff, we'll see)
fury on the other hand, even with more crit, still plays the same and you still will get fucked over and the set-boni + archi trinket seem really freakin boring as they kinda change nothing ... more autoattacks dont really do anything for the "fun" compartement and neither does ws spam XD

[Archimtiros]

I'm so happy yall decided to name this trinket after me. It's an honor really.

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what i meant is, that arms MIGHT get more fun than it currently is with T18 boni + archi-trinket, cause we get parts of our old playstyle back. (just a guess form reading stuff, we'll see)
fury on the other hand, even with more crit, still plays the same and you still will get fucked over and the set-boni + archi trinket seem really freakin boring as they kinda change nothing ... more autoattacks dont really do anything for the "fun" compartement and neither does ws spam XD

The Fury trinket is actually quite powerful, a lot more so than most people realize. Yes, Haste is boring, but the sheer amount you get ends up making a huge difference. It was actually nerfed once already because it was too powerful, and it still has quite a large impact on our rotation.

[Sethanor]

I'm so happy yall decided to name this trinket after me. It's an honor really.
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The Fury trinket is actually quite powerful, a lot more so than most people realize. Yes, Haste is boring, but the sheer amount you get ends up making a huge difference. It was actually nerfed once already because it was too powerful, and it still has quite a large impact on our rotation.

the way i know blizz and their little love for warriors atm, we see the fury trinket changed to only attack-speed so that it wont impact the rotation at all XD
#tinfoilhat

[Archimtiros]

the way i know blizz and their little love for warriors atm, we see the fury trinket changed to only attack-speed so that it wont impact the rotation at all XD
#tinfoilhat

Doubtful, though it'd be hard to argue if that would actually be better or worse from a rotational standpoint. More auto attacks still generate more rage, but wouldn't compress the GCD and create problems with Wild Strike. The issue with the Fury trinket is that FS actually becomes hard to play with a 1s GCD and 0.75s Wild Strike. You just can't always drop resources fast enough!

[Skellz]

Is it better to have more than 25% crit than it is to have 16% haste?

i have 25.55% crit / 31.04% mastery / 16.17% haste (Raid Buffed) 19.59% crit / 24.16% mastery / 10.63% haste (unbuffed).
when i simmed with full crit (gemmed/enchanted i had over 28%) it simmed lower than my current stats setup (25%crit).

also i read that the crit enchant is better than the mastery enchant because of uptime?

[Archimtiros]

Is it better to have more than 25% crit than it is to have 16% haste?

i have 25.55% crit / 31.04% mastery / 16.17% haste (Raid Buffed) 19.59% crit / 24.16% mastery / 10.63% haste (unbuffed).
when i simmed with full crit (gemmed/enchanted i had over 28%) it simmed lower than my current stats setup (25%crit).

also i read that the crit enchant is better than the mastery enchant because of uptime?

Because of 4p, ~25% crit becomes the point at which Crit starts losing value (capping out due to Recklessness and losing value due to cooldown burst being such a large chunk of our damage). Most players continue to go crit for various reasons, such as not having to constantly swap gems upon regearing and losing Crit, the added rotational stability, etc.

Crit enchant is generally better because it gives a large amount of crit which greatly helps the rotation (mastery enchant for example does nothing if you aren't Enraged) and it's higher uptime.

Keep in mind that just because there are ways to get slightly higher DPS doesn't actually means it's better, there are other considerations.

[Skellz]

Because of 4p, ~25% crit becomes the point at which Crit starts losing value (capping out due to Recklessness and losing value due to cooldown burst being such a large chunk of our damage). Most players continue to go crit for various reasons, such as not having to constantly swap gems upon regearing and losing Crit, the added rotational stability, etc.

Crit enchant is generally better because it gives a large amount of crit which greatly helps the rotation (mastery enchant for example does nothing if you aren't Enraged) and it's higher uptime.

Keep in mind that just because there are ways to get slightly higher DPS doesn't actually means it's better, there are other considerations.

At what percentage of Enrage uptime does crit become better than mastery?
if im normally over 80% enraged and generally spending most of my rage inside of it (procs/cd's/burst on pull/execute range) wouldnt mastery come out on top?
even if it doesnt proc as much as crit enchant.

just some thoughts. but i guess ill switch back to crit enchants.

[Archimtiros]

At what percentage of Enrage uptime does crit become better than mastery?
if im normally over 80% enraged and generally spending most of my rage inside of it (procs/cd's/burst on pull/execute range) wouldnt mastery come out on top?
even if it doesnt proc as much as crit enchant.

just some thoughts. but i guess ill switch back to crit enchants.

It's impossible to say "what % of enrage uptime" since that is entirely dependent on RNG. The target is ~25% crit for the reasons I detailed above.

And yes, mastery does come out on top (as a stat), however the enchant works completely differently. Just because you average 80% enrage uptime, doesn't mean you'll actually be enraged when your Mastery enchant procs.

Also remember that part of the reason your Enrage uptime is so high is going to be because of that crit enchant.

In before someone comes along and says "well I managed to sim Crit/Mastery, Mastery/Crit, Int, Spirit or Flintlocke's Woodchucker and got higher results."; yes, it's possible to see different results in sims, it is all going to be based on your current gear and stats, but going crit is the best overall (reread my first paragraph above). Also next tier if we drop T174p, we'll see crit rise once again.

[Skellz]

It's impossible to say "what % of enrage uptime" since that is entirely dependent on RNG. The target is ~25% crit for the reasons I detailed above.

And yes, mastery does come out on top (as a stat), however the enchant works completely differently. Just because you average 80% enrage uptime, doesn't mean you'll actually be enraged when your Mastery enchant procs.

Also remember that part of the reason your Enrage uptime is so high is going to be because of that crit enchant.

In before someone comes along and says "well I managed to sim Crit/Mastery, Mastery/Crit, Int, Spirit or Flintlocke's Woodchucker and got higher results."; yes, it's possible to see different results in sims, it is all going to be based on your current gear and stats, but going crit is the best overall (reread my first paragraph above). Also next tier if we drop T174p, we'll see crit rise once again.

ok, thank you for your reply's i really appreciate it.

[cross34]

hi everyone!

it feels as if with warrior there is only so much i can min/max at the moment and that the skillcap seems so low. just push the buttons that light up and know which talents to use, not much other decisions to make and my dps mostly depending on the procs i get.

i haven't played much of the other classes in wod aside from mage, but with my mage it seemed to have such a higher skillcap (more decisions/adaptations needed mid-fight - like when to blink, ice floes, scorch, etc to max dps) even though both specs were also relatively reliant on procs.

wanted to ask you guys on your opinion, do most of you also feel the same? how would you compare other classes to warrior's current and/or projected 6.2 difficulty/state? are the other classes also relatively "easy" and more of dependent on RNG to play or are warriors just in a special (and hopefully temporary) place right now?

[Archimtiros]

hi everyone!

it feels as if with warrior there is only so much i can min/max at the moment and that the skillcap seems so low. just push the buttons that light up and know which talents to use, not much other decisions to make and my dps mostly depending on the procs i get.

i haven't played much of the other classes in wod aside from mage, but with my mage it seemed to have such a higher skillcap (more decisions/adaptations needed mid-fight - like when to blink, ice floes, scorch, etc to max dps) even though both specs were also relatively reliant on procs.

wanted to ask you guys on your opinion, do most of you also feel the same? how would you compare other classes to warrior's current and/or projected 6.2 difficulty/state? are the other classes also relatively "easy" and more of dependent on RNG to play or are warriors just in a special (and hopefully temporary) place right now?

While what you say is true, it's also an oversimplification. The skill cap seems low, since damage is mostly proc based, but I believe it actually takes more focus than many rotations in the game simply because it requires you to always plan your steps in two different directions. You have to out play the RNG.

With standard, predictable rotations, you always know what is coming next. There isn't any guesswork and the only thing you really need to do to optimize is utilize proper timing of abilities. With Fury you have to constantly evaluate your place in the rotation in relation to your resource level and how the random element will affect that. What happens if I get procs, what happens if I don't get procs, should I drop resources now, should I save resources and risk capping? This is a constant element to the RNG game.

The unfortunate part is that our damage is also so heavily impacted by those same procs. This means that, even if you react perfectly, you may still end up with poor damage, and those who play sub-optimally may end up with higher damage simply because they had 5 back to back Sudden Death procs.

To answer your question, (Fury) Warriors definitely have the highest amount of RNG to them, bar none. Not only in damage but also simple impact on the rotation. Ret Paladins are the closest thing to a heavy RNG/proc based gameplay, but their procs impact the rotation much differently from ours, mostly in fully positive ways.

[Skellz]

hi everyone!

it feels as if with warrior there is only so much i can min/max at the moment and that the skillcap seems so low. just push the buttons that light up and know which talents to use, not much other decisions to make and my dps mostly depending on the procs i get.

i haven't played much of the other classes in wod aside from mage, but with my mage it seemed to have such a higher skillcap (more decisions/adaptations needed mid-fight - like when to blink, ice floes, scorch, etc to max dps) even though both specs were also relatively reliant on procs.

wanted to ask you guys on your opinion, do most of you also feel the same? how would you compare other classes to warrior's current and/or projected 6.2 difficulty/state? are the other classes also relatively "easy" and more of dependent on RNG to play or are warriors just in a special (and hopefully temporary) place right now?

Playing a warrior isnt as easy as you might think vs other classes, especially when youre trying to put out max dps. ive been maining a warrior only this xpac and its definitely not easy. i also play a demo lock (no rng to deal with), a hunter (no rng to deal with except for 2pc procs), all those rotations require is perfect execution and youll do the deeps. so yes, those classes are "easy" and i play those because i dont have to think about my rotation that much..

you can just see how hard it is to min/max by scrolling up and reading my questions that Archimitiros answered.

i wouldnt change classes though, rng definitely can screw you(bt, bt, bt, bt, NO ENRAGE WTF!), but when rngesus blesses you with godly procs, its so fun.
(even though it would be nice to have rng affect us less..)

[cross34]

To answer your question, (Fury) Warriors definitely have the highest amount of RNG to them, bar none. Not only in damage but also simple impact on the rotation. Ret Paladins are the closest thing to a heavy RNG/proc based gameplay, but their procs impact the rotation much differently from ours, mostly in fully positive ways.

thanks, this is what i was looking for. do you think that with the new set bonuses or your trinket (archi trinket hehe) this could change in 6.2?

i love being a warrior and have been holding back on re-rolling (also as i've already switched from mage this xpac) but the constant pray to rng playstyle just isn't appealing to me at the moment

[Artunias]

I actually like the trinket designs a lot in 6.2, they might not be "exciting" but they are very non rng. Right now (especially as arms) your dps can swing insanely just based on when/how the damned things proc.

We'll still be subject to rng, but at least you don't need awesome rng to align with your big trinket proc come 6.2 raid gear.

[Deleted]

I actually like the trinket designs a lot in 6.2, they might not be "exciting" but they are very non rng. Right now (especially as arms) your dps can swing insanely just based on when/how the damned things proc.

We'll still be subject to rng, but at least you don't need awesome rng to align with your big trinket proc come 6.2 raid gear.

You mean like, its not RNG based at all to have a colossus smash reset when your CDs are up/during execute phase VS having a CS reset when you have 20 rage? :/