[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Archimtiros]

Out of curiosity, would it really be so bad if Bloodsurge procs just let you use it on it's own GCD? Seems like it would solve almost all bottlekneck problems if you could use it that way.

Not really bad, but not really good either. Heck I'm not even sure if it's possible (without some extremely convoluted spell data).

The problem is that it just becomes needlessly confusing more than anything else. Wild Strike is on the GCD, now its off the GCD, now its on the GCD.. I dunno but that just doesn't sound like fun to me. At the same time, it doesn't really fix the problem, it only bandaids it slightly. Sure you'll get your Bloodsurge out of the way quicker and be able to use RB or Sudden Death at the same time as to not push back your Bloodthirst; but you still won't be able to use Wild Strike to dump rage until you've cleared out your Bloodsurge procs, which is still going to take you atleast 1.5s, even if it is off the GCD. This means you lose the ability to manage your rage, exactly in the same manner as which we are now.

My previous suggestion was that Bloodsurge should only make Wild Strike free while below 45 rage. Meaning if it procs and you are under 45 rage, your next two Wild Strikes are free as normal, however if it procs and you are above 45 rage, Wild Strike doesn't become free (or consume Bloodsurge charges) until you are below 45 rage. This gives you a chance to dump your rage before using your free procs. Essentially working exactly as it does now, only in reverse.

[Fog]

I just miss Heroic Strike and that gameplay. It might be a few steps back, but to me it was very fluent. Wild Strike is essentially the old Slam.
Maybe I'm just an old fart, but I don't like fury at all this expansion.. I wouldn't mind seeing Wild Strike being controlled by procs (or just give fury Slam again, but only activated by Bloodsurge) and bring back Heroic Strike as rage dump.
I don't know, the more this expansion goes on, I miss the old days. I don't even care about 5.4 fury anymore, I just hate WoD fury. Yet, I like it more than arms..

[Deleted]

Not really bad, but not really good either. Heck I'm not even sure if it's possible (without some extremely convoluted spell data).

The problem is that it just becomes needlessly confusing more than anything else. Wild Strike is on the GCD, now its off the GCD, now its on the GCD.. I dunno but that just doesn't sound like fun to me. At the same time, it doesn't really fix the problem, it only bandaids it slightly. Sure you'll get your Bloodsurge out of the way quicker and be able to use RB or Sudden Death at the same time as to not push back your Bloodthirst; but you still won't be able to use Wild Strike to dump rage until you've cleared out your Bloodsurge procs, which is still going to take you atleast 1.5s, even if it is off the GCD. This means you lose the ability to manage your rage, exactly in the same manner as which we are now.

My previous suggestion was that Bloodsurge should only make Wild Strike free while below 45 rage. Meaning if it procs and you are under 45 rage, your next two Wild Strikes are free as normal, however if it procs and you are above 45 rage, Wild Strike doesn't become free (or consume Bloodsurge charges) until you are below 45 rage. This gives you a chance to dump your rage before using your free procs. Essentially working exactly as it does now, only in reverse.

That would make hell of a lot more sense the current iteration tbh.

I always hoped that they would just bring back heroic strike, but only make it usable when BS procced, as in a new proc mechanic i.e. Making BS give you give 2 charges of heroic strike which would do similar damage to WS except off the GCD rather than making WS free as in the current iteration. Either way the current version is really awful.

[Deleted]

Yay, another RNG layeeer !

[CollisionTD]

Why Fury T18 is terrible:
(This is all done assuming the fury spec trinket is used)

T18 2P: While Bloodsurge is active, your Wild Strike critical strike chance is increased by 12% and Wild Strike critical strike damage is increased by 12%.

Bloodsurge is a 20% chance to proc from bloodthirst hits. Bloodthirst has a 4.5 second cooldown, reduced by haste. However, since wild strikes do not have a reduced gcd from haste, they tend to push back the usage of bloodthirst.

Bloodthirst by itself doesn't do a lot of damage, it's only the effects of it that we are interested in. That means that it is a dps increase to delay bloodthirst in the following scenarios:

1: Currently have 2 raging blow procs
2: Currently have more than 100 rage, since the rage from bloodthirst/enrage proc will most likely be wasted.
3: Bloodsurge is active
4: Sudden Death is up

Add in wild strike's static 0.75 second gcd, and even with a 3.0 second cooldown on bloodthirst we tend to use it every 3.4~ seconds.

Anyway, the point of this is to show that over a 60 second period, we only use bloodthirst 17.5~ times.

17.5 * 0.2 = 3.5 bloodsurge procs.

Bloodsurge allows 2 free wild strikes, t18 2p adds in 12% crit chance/crit damage. So, under perfect conditions that means 7 wild strikes per minute will have this tier bonus applied to them.

Let's say I have 25% normal crit chance, and the average wild strike hits for 25k.

25k* 1.25 = 31.25k expected hit when crit chance is included.

Add in the set bonus:
37% chance to deal (25k * 2 * 1.12) damage = 20.7k
63% chance to deal 22k damage = 15.75k
total expected damage: 36.45k

7 * ( 36.45k - 31.25k ) = 36.4k damage added every 60 seconds, or 606 dps added to the character.

But the T18 2P feeds into the 4P!

With 7 uses of an enhanced wild strike every minute, that means we will gain 0.84 procs of T18 4P thanks to the T18 2P by itself. 16.8 seconds of reduction on reck every minute.

In order for T18 2P to reduce the cd on reck enough to actually allow another use of recklessness, the encounter would need to last 11 minutes without anger management, or 7 minutes with anger management. That means on most encounters, the T18 2P bonus is just a damage increase, not a recklessness usage increase.

T18 4P
Your Wild Strike critical strikes reduce the cooldown of Recklessness by 20 sec.

I'm going to skip napkin math and just use simulator output here. Using reck on cooldown with anger management leads to an average cooldown of 44 seconds. While Furious Strikes reduces the cooldown further (33~ seconds), this ends up being a dps loss when compared with sudden death because Fury is flooded with resources now, so a lot of the rage "saved" from furious strikes ends up being lost to capping out.

Recklessness lasts 10 seconds, so that's a 23%~ uptime on a 30% crit chance buff with 10% crit damage on top. Normally, this buff has 9% uptime.

Let's assume that normally we deal 60k dps. Autoattacks are not affected by recklessness, and they are 16% of Fury's damage. That leaves 50.4k of dps to be enhanced by this increased buff uptime.

30% * ( 100.8k ("if everything crit dps") * 1.1 ) = 33,264 * 0.14 increase in reck uptime = 4656.96 dps gain from T18 4P.

60k ---> 64,656= 7.7% dps increase.

This is also assuming that all recks are created equal. Unfortunately, they are not. The most important reck uses are on the pull and <20% execute spam. These 2 reck uses are already covered without T18 4P.

T18 4P will also not increase the amount of recklessness's used during a execute phase. Wild Strike is only used with bloodsurge during execute phase, and bloodsurge is not enough to reduce the cd on reck to allow a 2nd use. Playing the lottery to try and reduce the cd on reck by wasting rage on wild strike when execute is available is also an awful idea.

Overall, this means that the average additional recklessness added via t18 4p is watered down due to lack of synergy with other buffs. Also, it has a high amount of variability which is not something that Fury welcomes to the multiple sources of rng/variance that it already has. This adds difficulty to planning ahead cooldown usage to align with recklessness.

Add these mitigating factors to the napkin math dps gain of 7.7%, and it's not hard to see why the realized gain from the T18 4P set bonus is 4%. Toss in the strictly single-target nature of the bonus on top of the 1% gain from the 2P, and this is just an underwhelming and unattractive tier set for Fury.

[VaevictusVII]

Seeing the above post, and knowing that most of us have many times mentioned just how "underwhelming/crap" this tier bonus is. Why is it the devs refuse to acknowledge this fact. And it appears 99% this bonus goes live, and we are stuck with it... It's very irritating, when some of the bonuses for other classes are going to be so good/fun. Whereas ours is the antithesis of fun....

[CollisionTD]

So, the mirrorblade trinket is doing a lot of damage right now. Also, it looks hilarious when used.

http://collision.heroicstrike.org/2015-05-26_15-48-22.mp4

[Cyclonus-WOW]

So, the mirrorblade trinket is doing a lot of damage right now. Also, it looks hilarious when used.

http://collision.heroicstrike.org/2015-05-26_15-48-22.mp4

Kage Bunshin No Bladestorm
Penta Bladestorm
Class 5 Bladenado
This is so fucking amazing.

[Huntindawg]

Kage Bunshin No Bladestorm
Penta Bladestorm
Class 5 Bladenado
This is so fucking amazing.

INCOMING NERFBAT.



If they don't nerf it and str users use an agi trinket I'll be very surprised. Also buff T18 so it isn't mathematically shit.

[Archimtiros]

INCOMING NERFBAT.



If they don't nerf it and str users use an agi trinket I'll be very surprised. Also buff T18 so it isn't mathematically shit.

Wouldn't be the first time we'd used agi gear. Happens about once an expansion.

[Deleted]

So, the mirrorblade trinket is doing a lot of damage right now. Also, it looks hilarious when used

And nothing about the Soul Capacitor ? ^^

[Archimtiros]

And nothing about the Soul Capacitor ? ^^

If we could force it to line up with Bladestorm maybe, but I don't think it'd be any more powerful than our other options.

[zyen]

I'd say the easiest way to buff t18 4pcs is to buff recklessness, or somehow increase it's duration..

[Deleted]

T18 4p: every wild strike crit(while not buffed by recklessness) stacks a buff that increases next recklessness duration by 3sec. Max stacks 10. Thx i would take it.

[Roiids]

Warriors typically scale pretty well, will our stats makeup for crap tier? Oh wait nevermind, everyone scales pretty close to the same now.

[Jaybee9084]

T18 4p: every wild strike crit(while not buffed by recklessness) stacks a buff that increases next recklessness duration by 3sec. Max stacks 10. Thx i would take it.

This is redundant. You're doing what the current bonus does, but worse. Your version, as well as the live version, still do not address the real problem; Recklessness is a shit damage CD.

[CollisionTD]

The easiest fix that would make the set bonus decent (not great) would be to increase the crit chance of bloodsurge wild strikes by 40-50%. It would guarantee crits during recklessness, and near-guarantee outside of recklessness. The main benefit would be reducing some of the variability of the 4p.

At this point, that's the best fix we can hope for.

[Artunias]

I love how every single problem we've had, especially ones that continue to be huge problems had been pointed out essentially THE VERY FIRST DAY it hit the fucking ptr/alpha/beta whatever.

But it just gets ignored, or they don't give a fuck, or whatever it is they fucking do in California. And we get stuck with "well at this point this is the best we can hope for"

Fuck this warrior design team. They all need to go find new jobs.

[Roiids]

Gearing out my hunter atm, in case things go far south for us.... But i would much like to continue to play my Warrior...

[bladeXcrasher]

I love how every single problem we've had, especially ones that continue to be huge problems had been pointed out essentially THE VERY FIRST DAY it hit the fucking ptr/alpha/beta whatever.

But it just gets ignored, or they don't give a fuck, or whatever it is they fucking do in California. And we get stuck with "well at this point this is the best we can hope for"

Fuck this warrior design team. They all need to go find new jobs.

They just refuse to admit that when the decision to scrap one of our two 'strikes' came up, they picked the incorrect one.