1. #781
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by InkarnateKT View Post
    Tanked it last night:

    Never felt I was ever in danger of death. You can handle a breath with Diffuse+EB+1 Guard, EB+2Guard, any combination with FB or Zen Med (breaks on his first melee but still useful).

    Make sure you are topped going into breaths, and if you have a disc they should spam PWS and CoW during breaths on whichever tank is tanking it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Melee during breath is working as intended as far as I know
    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    The only things I use my guard for in that fight is basicly the breath and when tanking add at 4 stacks of debuff + 10 stacks of infesting spores. Its actually enough to save 1 charge of guard for the breath and use the other charge in case of the oh shit moment i stated above. Diffuse magic should be more then enough for a breath by its own if you keep purifying melee hits during it.
    Thank you sirs kindly for the log and the advice. I am trying to only use Diffuse magic for one which seems a good alternative and cooperating with a discipline priest should be worth gold. ( Our Priest was Holy so i guess we can still do a lot more )
    Maybe we also just need about 2 more ID's because our ilevels are worlds apart with my 660, but apart from the healing it didn't feel that Itemlevel on Brackenspore is that important.

    Edit:
    I also did not want to sound like Bracken's meleehits are a bug or something. When we raided Beta it was just mentioned on the forums.
    Last edited by mmoc8b6a6708c3; 2014-12-23 at 07:55 PM.

  2. #782
    Did something change with races in simcraft? Night Elf used to sim way better than every other race but now it's the worst by a significant amount. Here's the profile I've been using.

    Code:
    default_region=your_region
    default_server=your_server
    
    armory=your_character
    race=night_elf
    name=NightElf
    
    copy=Dwarf
    race=dwarf
    
    copy=Human
    race=Human
    
    copy=Draenei
    race=draenei
    
    copy=Pandaren
    race=pandaren
    
    copy=Gnome
    race=Gnome

  3. #783
    Deleted
    > use Diffuse Magic while specced into Soul Dance
    > get hit by a spell
    > ignores the 90% mitigation because Soul Dance makes all magic damage physical to function

    Thanks Blizzard.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Misume View Post
    > use Diffuse Magic while specced into Soul Dance
    > get hit by a spell
    > ignores the 90% mitigation because Soul Dance makes all magic damage physical to function

    Thanks Blizzard.
    This happens? I didn't notice it when I was using DM against ko'ragh adds and suppresion fields running SD. I'll have a look at logs later.
    Brewmaster Icy-Veins Guide Writer

  5. #785
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Quotey View Post
    This happens? I didn't notice it when I was using DM against ko'ragh adds and suppresion fields running SD. I'll have a look at logs later.
    I've noticed it happening with Glyphed Guard in the past while using Soul Dance (incoming Magic damage gets treated as physical, so it ignores Glyphed Guard), and last night Diffuse Magic did nothing to stop the Ko'ragh trash spells. I'll have to check some more, but if that's "working as intended" I doubt I'll be running Soul Dance.

  6. #786
    So I was testing some things last night and found out with Pol's and fort brew, I can get to 79% mastery for like 15 seconds which is like a 60% DR over my normal mastery(which doesn't include the other 20% from fort brew). Every percent I get is already 2% DR without CDs. I feel like mastery might get slightly out of control when our pieces start getting more itemized for it.

  7. #787
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by brookllyn View Post
    So I was testing some things last night and found out with Pol's and fort brew, I can get to 79% mastery for like 15 seconds which is like a 60% DR over my normal mastery(which doesn't include the other 20% from fort brew). Every percent I get is already 2% DR without CDs. I feel like mastery might get slightly out of control when our pieces start getting more itemized for it.
    Sounds similar to the RoRO Mastery Build from back in ToT.

  8. #788
    I've been saying for over a year now that the fact that Stagger as an additive damage reduction inherently makes it overpowered once you get to a certain level of mastery where it starts outperforming everything else. The fact that I sit at 55% base Stagger in raids makes the 20% from Fort Brew a 55.56% damage reduction all on its own which makes it by far the strongest 3 minute tank cooldown in the game.

    This originally wasn't going to be a problem this expansion, but then they buffed base Stagger by 10% so here we are once again. Unfortunately the only two ways to fix it without removing Stagger as a mastery or straight-up lowering its percentage are to enforce caps lower than 100% (so the stupid 85% Stagger craziness that we saw on Malkorok is literally never possible if it hard caps at 75% or something) or put in diminishing returns which are complicated and unintuitive.

    So long as Stagger is attached to mastery with no limits or DR, it will exponentially scale mastery as a stat to the point where BrMs become godlike at the end of an expansion (maybe even sooner now in a post-tank-squish world).

  9. #789
    Deleted
    Tanking the Butcher is such a laugh. Ending up below three dps in damage taken is so fun!

  10. #790
    So long as Stagger is attached to mastery with no limits or DR, it will exponentially scale mastery as a stat to the point where BrMs become godlike at the end of an expansion (maybe even sooner now in a post-tank-squish world).
    That's true, but it's a question of if it'll happen this expansion or not. With potentially only two tiers of content, gear stat levels may simply never scale high enough for that to be reached (without giving up heavily on other stats that would result in better survivability than just straight mastery stacking, or without it being to the point where other tanks also have such crazy levels of mitigation that we're kinda back in the old SoO setup where they balance around tanks basically seeming "invincible" relative to lower level content).

    The fact that I sit at 55% base Stagger in raids makes the 20% from Fort Brew a 55.56% damage reduction all on its own which makes it by far the strongest 3 minute tank cooldown in the game.
    Partially true. In order for Fortifying Brew to be effectively equal to its tooltip damage reduction, you have to purify every hit. While that is certainly possible to do with Serenity and a little setup, that's somewhat unfairly rolling our baseline active mitigation into the damage reduction benefit of the CD itself. If you do the same for other tanks, than something like GoAK + the amount of SotR you can push during it (moreso with higher mastery and thus lower chance to not block each attack and higher reduction while SotR is up) would easily beat out FB in terms of average damage per hit prevented while it's up (although for roughly half the duration).

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanberry View Post
    that's somewhat unfairly rolling our baseline active mitigation into the damage reduction benefit of the CD itself. If you do the same for other tanks, than something like GoAK + the amount of SotR you can push during it (moreso with higher mastery and thus lower chance to not block each attack and higher reduction while SotR is up) would easily beat out FB in terms of average damage per hit prevented while it's up (although for roughly half the duration).
    I'd say that's not quite the same, because with Fortifying Brew we're talking about the 20% extra Stagger on top of normal, plus the normal damage reduction. That number (which is actually 44.44%, I accidentally wrote effective damage taken instead of effective damage reduction) is solely the responsibility of Fortifying Brew over the normal case of having base Stagger. Of course you have to assume some kind of proper usage of it, otherwise Stagger has zero value. At half efficiency (PB every 5 seconds) it'd be 27.5% to 37.5%, or a 13.8% damage reduction, but this is on top of the 20% damage reduction, 20% extra health, and double duration Fortifying Brew has. Of course the Stagger part itself isn't huge, but Fort Brew is already on par with normal tank cooldowns even before the Stagger part, which is why the Stagger part is what makes it the best in the game.

    That's true, but it's a question of if it'll happen this expansion or not. With potentially only two tiers of content, gear stat levels may simply never scale high enough for that to be reached (without giving up heavily on other stats that would result in better survivability than just straight mastery stacking, or without it being to the point where other tanks also have such crazy levels of mitigation that we're kinda back in the old SoO setup where they balance around tanks basically seeming "invincible" relative to lower level content).
    What do you mean without giving up other stats that would result in better survivability? The entire problem with a stat that scales exponentially in value is that it eventually becomes the best with absolutely no contention and pigeon-holes an entire spec into stacking one stat to the exclusion of all else. These kinds of things typically don't occur in the game, with the one exception being Paladin mastery's SotR scaling but that has way too low of a base and will only ever get to around 50% damage reduction by the end of an expansion.

    That was kind of my point though, the 10% Stagger buff pushed Stagger from having a potential upper limit of ~60% passively even at the end of the expansion to not even being at full heroic ilvl in the first tier and already having 55% passively. We'll be hitting 60% in Mythic BRF gear, no need to even speculate about whether it might get there or not since the gear is already in the game.

    And because this will inevitably come up, 60% is the threshold for Mastery becoming absurd because 176 Mastery = 1% Stagger, and at 60% Stagger to 61% Stagger is a 2.5% direct damage reduction whereas at 35% (the old base + Shuffle + 5% mastery baseline) to 36% it's only a 1.5% damage reduction. Regardless of Stagger efficiency, a 66% increase in value per stat is ridiculous and the only way it could possibly not be the best is if it started at an absurdly low value. No other stat in the game that has additive damage scaling starts with as high of a base as Stagger or scales as quickly (SotR for example starts at 25% and only scales 1% per 220 mastery, Stagger starts far higher and scales more quickly).

  12. #792
    Herald of the Titans Hinalover's Avatar
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    So a user by the name of Skudnfroodie took it upon himself to fix Brewmasters' Simulationcraft APL. He did improve the TMI score but the main thing he fixed was Haste's scaling in SimC. With the changes made, haste is now scaling decently well. It is still the worst secondary stat but not as bad as it was before. It's now just behind Multistrike instead of far behind it.

    Also I did fix a minor bug with when stagger triggered. Basically Blizzard rounds shuffle' debuff value to the whole percent (they do a similar thing with boss health and transitions). So instead of medium stagger triggering right at 3%, it actually triggers at 3.5%. Same thing happens at heavy stagger (6.5% instead of 6%).

    For those interested:

    Code:
    actions=auto_attack
    actions+=/blood_fury,if=energy<=40
    actions+=/berserking,if=energy<=40
    actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<=40
    actions+=/chi_sphere,if=talent.power_strikes.enabled&buff.chi_sphere.react&chi<4
    actions+=/chi_brew,if=talent.chi_brew.enabled&chi.max-chi>=2&buff.elusive_brew_stacks.stack<=10&((charges=1&recharge_time<5)|charges=2|target.time_to_die<15)
    actions+=/chi_brew,if=(chi<1&stagger.heavy)|(chi<2&buff.shuffle.down)
    actions+=/gift_of_the_ox,if=buff.gift_of_the_ox.react&incoming_damage_1500ms
    actions+=/diffuse_magic,if=incoming_damage_1500ms&buff.fortifying_brew.down
    actions+=/dampen_harm,if=incoming_damage_1500ms&buff.fortifying_brew.down&buff.elusive_brew_activated.down
    actions+=/fortifying_brew,if=incoming_damage_1500ms&(buff.dampen_harm.down|buff.diffuse_magic.down)&buff.elusive_brew_activated.down
    actions+=/elusive_brew,if=buff.elusive_brew_stacks.react>=9&(buff.dampen_harm.down|buff.diffuse_magic.down)&buff.elusive_brew_activated.down
    actions+=/invoke_xuen,if=talent.invoke_xuen.enabled&target.time_to_die>15&buff.shuffle.remains>=3&buff.serenity.down
    actions+=/serenity,if=talent.serenity.enabled&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>6
    actions+=/potion,name=draenic_armor,if=(buff.fortifying_brew.down&(buff.dampen_harm.down|buff.diffuse_magic.down)&buff.elusive_brew_activated.down)
    actions+=/call_action_list,name=st,if=active_enemies<3
    actions+=/call_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>=3
    
    actions.aoe=guard
    actions.aoe+=/breath_of_fire,if=chi>=3&buff.shuffle.remains>=6&dot.breath_of_fire.remains<=gcd
    actions.aoe+=/chi_explosion,if=chi>=4
    actions.aoe+=/rushing_jade_wind,if=chi.max-chi>=1&talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled
    actions.aoe+=/purifying_brew,if=!talent.chi_explosion.enabled&stagger.heavy
    actions.aoe+=/guard
    actions.aoe+=/keg_smash,if=chi.max-chi>=2&!buff.serenity.remains
    actions.aoe+=/chi_burst,if=talent.chi_burst.enabled&energy.time_to_max>3
    actions.aoe+=/chi_wave,if=talent.chi_wave.enabled&energy.time_to_max>3
    actions.aoe+=/zen_sphere,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.zen_sphere.enabled&!dot.zen_sphere.ticking
    actions.aoe+=/blackout_kick,if=talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&buff.shuffle.remains<=3&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd
    actions.aoe+=/blackout_kick,if=talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&buff.serenity.up
    actions.aoe+=/blackout_kick,if=talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&chi>=4
    actions.aoe+=/expel_harm,if=chi.max-chi>=1&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd&(energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.keg_smash.remains)))>=40
    actions.aoe+=/spinning_crane_kick,if=chi.max-chi>=1&!talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled
    actions.aoe+=/jab,if=talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&chi.max-chi>=1&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd&cooldown.expel_harm.remains>=gcd
    actions.aoe+=/purifying_brew,if=!talent.chi_explosion.enabled&talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&stagger.moderate&buff.shuffle.remains>=6
    actions.aoe+=/tiger_palm,if=talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&(energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.keg_smash.remains)))>=40
    actions.aoe+=/tiger_palm,if=talent.rushing_jade_wind.enabled&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd
    
    actions.st=purifying_brew,if=!talent.chi_explosion.enabled&stagger.heavy
    actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=buff.shuffle.down
    actions.st+=/purifying_brew,if=buff.serenity.up
    actions.st+=/purifying_brew,if=!talent.chi_explosion.enabled&stagger.moderate&buff.shuffle.remains>=6
    actions.st+=/guard,if=(charges=1&recharge_time<5)|charges=2|target.time_to_die<15
    actions.st+=/guard,if=incoming_damage_10s>=health.max*0.5
    actions.st+=/keg_smash,if=chi.max-chi>=1&!buff.serenity.remains
    actions.st+=/chi_burst,if=(energy+(energy.regen*gcd))<100
    actions.st+=/chi_wave,if=(energy+(energy.regen*gcd))<100
    actions.st+=/zen_sphere,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.zen_sphere.enabled&!dot.zen_sphere.ticking
    actions.st+=/chi_explosion,if=chi>=3
    actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=chi>=4
    actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=buff.shuffle.remains<=3&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd
    actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=buff.serenity.up
    actions.st+=/expel_harm,if=chi.max-chi>=1&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd&(energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.keg_smash.remains)))>=80
    actions.st+=/jab,if=chi.max-chi>=1&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd&cooldown.expel_harm.remains>=gcd&(energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.keg_smash.remains)))>=80
    actions.st+=/tiger_palm
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2014-12-25 at 07:22 AM.

  13. #793
    It looks like a lot of conditionals were added to reduce waste (in Guard, Chi Wave/Burst, and Keg Smash), and also just removing the energy conditional on Serenity in favor of tying to to Keg Smash instead.

    I'd wager that the biggest TMI gain probably came from adding the conditional on Expel that basically pools energy all of the time which would leave it available for Desperate Measures and be an overall energy efficiency gain (which is probably also what fixed haste).

    Those are some nice changes, I can tell a lot of thought and testing went into those.

  14. #794
    is there a rule of thumb for 2H vs 2x1H?
    13/13

    Monk

  15. #795
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by siccora View Post
    is there a rule of thumb for 2H vs 2x1H?
    Same as MoP. DW is slightly higher DPS (and I believe more secondaries now, but I might have misread that), 2H provides slightly higher stamina. ILvl trumps all, and at same ilvl it's down to personal preference.

    DW also has smoother (not faster) Elusive Brew generation.

  16. #796
    ok, so same rules applies. thanks. i take the 2x1H then.
    13/13

    Monk

  17. #797
    Deleted
    What about if I have a 661 1H and a 630 1h vs a 655 2hander? Which should I be using? I'm assuming it's the DW because the main hand has a higher ilvl.

  18. #798
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vecayse View Post
    What about if I have a 661 1H and a 630 1h vs a 655 2hander? Which should I be using? I'm assuming it's the DW because the main hand has a higher ilvl.
    2 hander. Add them together, take the average, GG.

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Misume View Post
    #DW also has smoother (not faster) Elusive Brew generation.
    I feel like this is a bit underrated. I'm really enjoying the predictability with my dual Phemos Double Slashers. It really helped me with the heroic Butcher fight.
    Last edited by ScharfAsATack; 2014-12-26 at 01:51 AM.

  20. #800
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Misume View Post
    2 hander. Add them together, take the average, GG.
    Oh right. Thanks

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