[GUIDE] Drunken Savagery: Brewmaster Tanking in [6.2]

[keqe]

On a note of completely useless info, it's perfectly possible to defeat Hexos in Brawlers guild by starting with 4 chi (just pool before you even get teleported in), and then only use Xuen and TP and finish off with a ToD. Depending on gear ofc, I have 696 ilvl. That leaves a lot of attention for spinning around and not hitting walls. Then again the walls are less lethal then they were in MoP. Overgearing Brawlers guild makes it way too easy... I didn't even have problems with A'hooru (besides for when I forgot he does this self heal :P ). Did it fully as Brewmaster, ToD makes it a joke.

It was balanced at 630 ilvl if I am not mistaken. Part of pre-raid content.

[redfella]

Quick question, 685 BFD vs 700 Beating Heart of the Mountain?

I think hands down BFD: More mitigation, more AP, better proc (althought uncontrollable).

[Totaltotemic]

BFD by far. Beating Heart would be better for scumbag DPS farmlulz though.

[Gothmog]

Again I'm confused, what is it about WUE that several people now have said makes it only useful in certain situations? Any hit that would even take you to ~60% health makes it already better than the passive Mastery or BA on any of the other trinkets. It's strictly better than any other trinket in terms of reducing damage taken except when you're going from like 100%-75% in which case it's only like a 5% damage reduction. I guess there's just some kind of numerical block everyone is having trouble getting around because this point keeps coming up that it's only good against attacks that would normally kill you, when in reality it's far better than anything else even if you're sitting at 60% health.

There is no other trinket with a "more spread out benefit" than something that literally works against everything all of the time passively. Just because it's slightly worse than passive stats in the case that you're at 100% health doesn't mean it's inconsistent or only works against certain things.

I haven't paid attention to numbers. You have and what you're saying, in simple terms, is that the trinket is simply overtuned.
If it's that good for us, who are by far the tanks that stay at 100% health the most, there's not even a shred of doubt all other tanks will cut their grandma's throat to get it. It just sounds like poor tuning on Blizz's part that ought to get looked at.
IMO, making a steeper scaling curve would be best?
The trinket HAS to be really really good at mitigating hits that drop you near death. There's no good reason why it should be better than any other trinket when being dropped to 60%. That's still a "I'm OKish" zone.

Even so, numbers aside, it doesn't impact my argument much. When you know the fight well enough to be sure you'll never die, there's no point to using it. We won't care about our overall damage taken being a few % higher, not with EH around. Slap on a dps increasing one instead, that does something. It's the age old "are you dead? no? good" binary argument. As long as you're sure about that answer, the trinket is on the shelf.


You don't want to 3 tank or 6 heal Beastlord for sure. We recently reprogressed it on alts and I remember our mains progress as well. Last 5% are by far the hardest, the difficulty ramp up is crazy. For that, you just need as much damage as you can muster in the whole last phase. One of the most important parts to that is reverse assigning cooldowns.
You want every DPSer to know at which point in the fight Bloodlust is popped, make sure he has all cooldowns available for that point. Then go back toward the start of the fight to figure out when you can pop CD's to have them in burn phase.
But yeah, runes are 1% increase... a bit less by now with everyone in Mythic gear.

It's a tricky decision, enforcing runes when it's playstyle that's at fault

[Totaltotemic]

If it's that good for us, who are by far the tanks that stay at 100% health the most, there's not even a shred of doubt all other tanks will cut their grandma's throat to get it. It just sounds like poor tuning on Blizz's part that ought to get looked at.
IMO, making a steeper scaling curve would be best?
The trinket HAS to be really really good at mitigating hits that drop you near death. There's no good reason why it should be better than any other trinket when being dropped to 60%. That's still a "I'm OKish" zone.

Even so, numbers aside, it doesn't impact my argument much. When you know the fight well enough to be sure you'll never die, there's no point to using it. We won't care about our overall damage taken being a few % higher, not with EH around. Slap on a dps increasing one instead, that does something. It's the age old "are you dead? no? good" binary argument. As long as you're sure about that answer, the trinket is on the shelf.

Yeah it's poor tuning. It's literally the best survival trinket since like the Tol Barad resist trinket in Cata that was godly for an entire expansion for no particular reason. It almost kind of has to be though considering Haste is a mediocre at best stat for every tank other than Paladins and no where near Bonus Armor in terms of DPS for any tank. It has to be OP for survival because it provides nearly no DPS, which yes means it's going to get canned for farm but it's not like tank DPS is super relevant on progression bosses that you're going to miss 5% of your DPS in exchange for literally never being in trouble of dying.

Frankly I'm not a fan of these trinkets that just have effects instead of real stats on them because they always fall into either being god tier or worthless since it's very hard to tune a unique effect to be in the same ballpark as real stats. Even something as simple as making it count at current health instead of post-hit health would turn it from amazing to trash in the blink of an eye, but it could use to be lowered like 5% across all versions.

[arcuro]

tanking gruul mythic with two tanks.
how do you handle the tank debuff?

i tank the boss through slice 1-3 and 7-9, taking slices 4,5 and 6

tanking slices is no problem. but my debuff wont drop and is ramping up 12 stacks and more.

[Deleted]

tanking gruul mythic with two tanks.
how do you handle the tank debuff?

i tank the boss through slice 1-3 and 7-9, taking slices 4,5 and 6

tanking slices is no problem. but my debuff wont drop and is ramping up 12 stacks and more.

Tank while taking slices. My co-tank tanks while taking slices 1-3 and 7-9 on the first set of slices, then tanks and takes slices 4-6 on the second set of slices. If you're 2-tanking it's the only way to make Overwhelming Blows drop off reliably without running into issues with taunt resistance IIRC.

[Deleted]

You can easily 2-tank the boss where Tank A tanks the boss for slices 1-3 and 7-9 and taunts off for 4-6 and Tank B does the opposite. You don't reach taunt DR, the only thing you need to do is swap after each destructive rampage, so that Tank B then tanks for slices 1-3 and 7-9 and taunts off for 4-6 with Tank A doing the opposite.

[Deleted]

Tank while taking slices. My co-tank tanks while taking slices 1-3 and 7-9 on the first set of slices, then tanks and takes slices 4-6 on the second set of slices. If you're 2-tanking it's the only way to make Overwhelming Blows drop off reliably without running into issues with taunt resistance IIRC.

There is no Taunt DR on Gruul. I actually don't know if any boss currently has the normal taunt DR anymore. Taunting back and forth will always work.

Keep in mind that you will take Slices 1-3 and 7-9 on the second P1 and plan your CDs and externals accordingly. You don't need a lot of externals(if you're tanking with a Paladin or a Warrior, his CD is enough to cover all your needs as a monk), communicate this with your cotank and healer team to have a setup that is safe for your cotank.
Overwhelming Blows stacks shouldn't matter at all to you, really, getting up to 11 stacks is completely normal and doesn't warrant using a CD unless you clicked off your paladin's beacon and/or druid's HoTs. Make good use of Elusive Brew at higher stacks. More than 12 stacks, however, mean that you have been messing up your taunting/positioning. If you taunt back and forth, make sure that a) the tank currently tanking taunts immediately after the Slice has gone through and b) you don't stand too close to each other.

[Deleted]

There is no Taunt DR on Gruul. I actually don't know if any boss currently has the normal taunt DR anymore. Taunting back and forth will always work.

Keep in mind that you will take Slices 1-3 and 7-9 on the second P1 and plan your CDs and externals accordingly. You don't need a lot of externals(if you're tanking with a Paladin or a Warrior, his CD is enough to cover all your needs as a monk), communicate this with your cotank and healer team to have a setup that is safe for your cotank.
Overwhelming Blows stacks shouldn't matter at all to you, really, getting up to 11 stacks is completely normal and doesn't warrant using a CD unless you clicked off your paladin's beacon and/or druid's HoTs. Make good use of Elusive Brew at higher stacks. More than 12 stacks, however, mean that you have been messing up your taunting/positioning. If you taunt back and forth, make sure that a) the tank currently tanking taunts immediately after the Slice has gone through and b) you don't stand too close to each other.

There's a lot of bosses that still suffer from taunt DR. Blackhand Mythic comes to mind.

[Totaltotemic]

I'm pretty sure Gruul is the only boss or mob in this raid tier that has taunt DR disabled specifically because ping-ponging the boss is the way the fight was intended to be done. In fact, he's like the only boss I've ever even heard of that had this disabled and it was quite a surprise because that's so abnormal.

[eschatological]

tanking gruul mythic with two tanks.
how do you handle the tank debuff?

i tank the boss through slice 1-3 and 7-9, taking slices 4,5 and 6

tanking slices is no problem. but my debuff wont drop and is ramping up 12 stacks and more.

We've two tanked since the first week of progression, but the tank with the debuff was just tanking, the other tank was taking slices (a bit opposite of what you do). I don't know why you would do it your way because one tank is literally doing nothing for 3 slices at a time, then has a real high stress period where you're taking the debuff AND have to move him into position, AND have to soak slices.

Either way, I'd suggest fort brew starting at slice 8 or so, when the stacks are getting high, and your second armor pot on the 2nd round. The way we do it:

For me:
1st go around:
slice: 1-3 (Fort Brew the first, guard immediately after, have that up for the next two slices which are both covered by dampen harm)
tank: 4-6 (just normal EB and guard usage)
slice: 7-9 (Zen Med the first, same theory behind slices 8 and 9)

2nd go around:
tank 1-3 (literally use nothing but EB, maybe a guard)
slice 4-6 (DH + guard on both later ones)
tank 7-9 (only time my stacks are getting high, chain 2nd fort brew, 2nd armor pot, 2nd xuen for that armor pot dddddddddpz)

[Donatist]

ha we do 4 slices each, 1-4 for tank A 5-8 for Tank B Slice 9 goes to Tank A

Its a pretty fucked up way but its never a problem for tank survival.

[Deleted]

We also do it in a 4B - 4A - 1B (Solo) rotation. The overwhelming debuff resets for Tank A after the rampage
Tank A starts tanking the Boss ( in our case it's me). Our DK takes the last Slice (Slice 9) solo.

5) Guard
6) Guard
7) Dampen Harm
8) Guard
------
5) Guard
6) Guard *
7) Dampen Harm *
8) Guard

* Potion+Trinket anywhere here.
This is enough when you have a disc priest shielding you. You can insert FB and Zen Med anywhere you want. If you need to solo soak one slice you should safe it for this slice. FB lasts long enough for 2 Slices. You need to cast in while the Boss is casting his slice/you are taunting him. Make sure to use high-resolve Guards (right after one slice) and purify immediatly.

[Skorkin]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6

Having fun on the PTR testing trinkets and the way we play in 6.2 the UFE which is a spirit healer trinket that procs leech for healing the amount of healing the leech does is insane. I doubt it will go live the was it is cause tanks might pick it up but in a raid environment the leech healing that trinket does would probably just be more over healing.

Testing on the mythic dummy I feel very strong and self sustaining which I thought blizz wanted us to need healers for tanks it didn't feel like I needed a healer even when I was using the actually tank trinkets. I didn't really test with serenity but I didn't feel like chi-explosion was too much to play around I didn't get to be super efficient with it many 4 chi explosions when I would have preferred 3 chi but when the dummy had around 45 stacks I was scared from the spiking till he killed me around 62 stacks at the point I was spiking very hard and having a healer with me would really help much unless it was a disc spamming shields on me.

All in all I don't really feel like we will be in a bad spot in 6.2 will want to get 4 set as soon as possible and the class trinket doesn't feel like we care about since is doesn't flow well with guard basically being a 2nd health pool even the 2 set doesn't mesh well with the 4 set other then proccing the expel harms cd earlier than we are used too.

If we had a glyph that made guard only work on physical damage similar to the magic guard glyph then the 2 set might be better allowing magic hits to procc expel harm but that isn't needed just a little thought since most of the damage we deal with is physical, and we do have plenty of heals to deal with spells and if we need to mitigate both in a fight then unglyph it. If we had such a glyph I'd probably use it for every fight in BRF except for Flamebender, Furnace, Gruul and maybe Beastlord. I don't know if such a glyph would be nice in HFC though. ;/

[arcuro]

We also do it in a 4B - 4A - 1B (Solo) rotation. The overwhelming debuff resets for Tank A after the rampage
Tank A starts tanking the Boss ( in our case it's me). Our DK takes the last Slice (Slice 9) solo.

5) Guard
6) Guard
7) Dampen Harm
8) Guard
------
5) Guard
6) Guard *
7) Dampen Harm *
8) Guard

* Potion+Trinket anywhere here.
This is enough when you have a disc priest shielding you. You can insert FB and Zen Med anywhere you want. If you need to solo soak one slice you should safe it for this slice. FB lasts long enough for 2 Slices. You need to cast in while the Boss is casting his slice/you are taunting him. Make sure to use high-resolve Guards (right after one slice) and purify immediatly.

tanking slices is no problam at all for me, but i can see our healers getting heart attacks wenn we have to switch the tanks after each rampage XD will tell this our raid lead when we came to gruul again (and not starting to wipe 40 tries again on beastlord...)

how reliable is the drop of the debuff when tanking 4 slices?

and great to know being part of this great monk community

[Deleted]

tanking slices is no problam at all for me, but i can see our healers getting heart attacks wenn we have to switch the tanks after each rampage XD will tell this our raid lead when we came to gruul again (and not starting to wipe 40 tries again on beastlord...)

how reliable is the drop of the debuff when tanking 4 slices?

and great to know being part of this great monk community

The Overwhelming Blows? They drop before the first tank needs to tank again after the rampage.



- - - Updated - - -

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6

Having fun on the PTR testing trinkets and the way we play in 6.2 the UFE which is a spirit healer trinket that procs leech for healing the amount of healing the leech does is insane. I doubt it will go live the was it is cause tanks might pick it up but in a raid environment the leech healing that trinket does would probably just be more over healing.

Testing on the mythic dummy I feel very strong and self sustaining [...]

I also tested this shit. 40% Leech was a bit crazy. But 1) I don't think the trinket will go live like that, and 2) I think you won't be able to keep the buff up in a raid environment with mass random heals aka hots, beacons, etc.

[Skorkin]

I also tested this shit. 40% Leech was a bit crazy. But 1) I don't think the trinket will go live like that, and 2) I think you won't be able to keep the buff up in a raid environment with mass random heals aka hots, beacons, etc.

Ya that was one of my concerns with the trinket if we could tell everyone to never heal us I don't think I would help the raid much at all. It would be a sick trinket for soloing if thinks hit decently hard.

[Deleted]

Another question from my side. As far as I can see in Logs, the Eye is also reducing (Absorbing) Stagger Damage? So, a Damage Reduction of our Damage Reduction? Sounds stupid. Is stagger damage also reduced by other cooldowns? I always thought stagger is calculated after everything else

[Skorkin]

Another question from my side. As far as I can see in Logs, the Eye is also reducing (Absorbing) Stagger Damage? So, a Damage Reduction of our Damage Reduction? Sounds stupid. Is stagger damage also reduced by other cooldowns? I always thought stagger is calculated after everything else

Gaurd absorbs stagger damage so not surprised that it works that way I don't think it matter in the long run for the power of the trinket cause stagger just shifts damage and doesn't reduce damage at all.

The trinket absorbs damage off everything so think of it this was number are not relivante but show why it doesn't mater.
10000 hit no trinket no stagger
8000 hit base stagger 2000 over 10 sec
9000 hit with Eye abosrbs 1000
8200 hit with stagger and Eye absorbs 800 2000 over 10 sec or 200 every sec for 10 secs and Eye absorbs 200 over 10 sec or 20 every sec for 10 secs
In the end if it didn't absorb stagger damage the trinket would be marginally worse for use then other tanks with it absorbing stagger doesn't make it any stronger for us then other tanks.

It was 7.97% of my healing on a gradual harder hitting dummy effectively making 8% passive damage reduction and that is the trinket at its worst if I understand it right.