[GUIDE] Drunken Savagery: Brewmaster Tanking in [6.2]

[Hinalover]

It seems to hit the primary target for the normal damage, and then each additional target for 1/5th that amout (so basically, the base damage of ChiEx with no additional extra per chi).

It's roughly equal to a BoK on the primary target + a BoF on everything. I'm wondering if you'd end up with more damage done by taking Serenity and then using your extra chi on BoF.

sortof...

It is primary: 100% damage
secondary: 1/# of targets

so 4 targets

primary: 100% damage
secondary: 25% damage

for 5 targets

primary: 100% damage
secondary: 20% damage

for 6 targets

primary: 100% damage
secondary: 16.67% damage

and so on.

[Henriksson]

According to legend the talent was never used again.

[brookllyn]

sortof...

It is primary: 100% damage
secondary: 1/# of targets

so 4 targets

primary: 100% damage
secondary: 25% damage

for 5 targets

primary: 100% damage
secondary: 20% damage

for 6 targets

primary: 100% damage
secondary: 16.67% damage

and so on.

It always just does 200% damage with half of that going on the primary target then.

RIP my beautiful CM tank :'(

[Ampere]

sortof...
-snip-

So just like 6.0 FoF.

Well I'll probably just take Serenity for CMs then. If we are close on time I'll try CE and see if it's enough extra damage to matter.

[Hinalover]

It always just does 200% damage with half of that going on the primary target then.

RIP my beautiful CM tank :'(

No it does not....I've tested this on beta in 2-5 target groupings and the damage spread is how I described it:

2 target: 100%-50%
3 target: 100%-33%-33%
4 target: 100%-25%-25%-25%
5 target: 100%-20%-20%-20%-20%
6 target: 100%-16.67%-16.67%-16.67%-16.67%-16.67%
7 target: 100%-14.29%-14.29%-14.29%-14.29%-14.29%-14.29%
8 target: 100%-12.50%-12.50%-12.50%-12.50%-12.50%-12.50%-12.50%
9 target: 100%-11.11%-11.11%-11.11%-11.11%-11.11%-11.11%-11.11%-11.11%
10 target: 100%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%-10.00%



1039.5 / 5197 = ~20%

[Jocias]

Graphs make everything easier to understand:


This actual graph covers WWs, but the shape of the old and new graphs are true for BrM as well.

Posted this in another thread earlier:

It appears that it works the same way that FoF does for damage. The theoretical combined maximum damage to all secondary targets approaches the damage done to the primary with a sufficiently large number of secondary targets.

Damage to Primary target: 100% damage
Combined damage to Secondary targets: ( 100% / ( n + 1 ) ) * n ; n = number of secondary targets

This means that it works the same way at 3 chi that it did previously. At 4 chi, things get a little complicated. Assuming there are secondary targets, the combined damage to secondary targets will be between 50% and 100% of the damage done to the primary target, depending on how many secondary targets exist. The more targets it hits, the more damage it does overall, but the less damage it does per target. At most, it'll deal a cumulative amount of damage to secondary targets equal to the damage done to the primary at 4 chi.

[Totaltotemic]

TL;DR secondary damage is 100%/number of total targets (including primary) except the primary doesn't actually take more damage. So it's still 100/n for damage per target, the first is just magically elevated to 100% damage.

What's disappointing for BrM though is that Chi Explosion's only purpose (as a talent over Serenity) is to do more damage, and it takes a very long time to get up to 4 chi. They've taken the one situation in the game (AoE) in which you'd say "yes, definitely use Chi Explosion here" and now it's not nearly as clear. This is the exact same stupidity that they showed with the Mistweaver CE, taking a talent that was largely only good for AoE and then decided "just kidding, not very good for AoE anymore."

The sheer time delay on doing a 4x CE (meaning you're not Purifying in this time) meant that absurd damage was the only thing making it valuable if you were tanking something at the time.

[Manu9]

TL;DR secondary damage is 100%/number of total targets (including primary) except the primary doesn't actually take more damage. So it's still 100/n for damage per target, the first is just magically elevated to 100% damage.

What's disappointing for BrM though is that Chi Explosion's only purpose (as a talent over Serenity) is to do more damage, and it takes a very long time to get up to 4 chi. They've taken the one situation in the game (AoE) in which you'd say "yes, definitely use Chi Explosion here" and now it's not nearly as clear. This is the exact same stupidity that they showed with the Mistweaver CE, taking a talent that was largely only good for AoE and then decided "just kidding, not very good for AoE anymore."

The sheer time delay on doing a 4x CE (meaning you're not Purifying in this time) meant that absurd damage was the only thing making it valuable if you were tanking something at the time.

Basically, 'Almost' all of the time our 100 talent is decided already?
So much for choices.

[Baromad]

From my understanding we should be using Chi Wave rather than Zen Sphere because Zen Sphere only pulls ahead of Chi Wave under perfect circumstances. Am I correct? Furthermore, does this same thinking apply at level 100 as well as 90?

[Rockets]

Cool, looking forward to the 6.2 rework of CE where they give it the RJW treatment because nobody's using it.

And the 7.0 rework when they move CE to Chi Torpedo's slot and make that talent row a clear AoE tier.

[Totaltotemic]

From my understanding we should be using Chi Wave rather than Zen Sphere because Zen Sphere only pulls ahead of Chi Wave under perfect circumstances. Am I correct? Furthermore, does this same thinking apply at level 100 as well as 90?

I think you're looking for the WW thread, BrM would never use ZS because it would auto-detonate almost immediately, rendering it pretty worthless. AFAIK for WW though that's true, although you'd be hard-pressed to find a person on every fight that consistently stays above 35% health to let ZS actually run its course.

[The Madgod]

I think you're looking for the WW thread, BrM would never use ZS because it would auto-detonate almost immediately, rendering it pretty worthless. AFAIK for WW though that's true, although you'd be hard-pressed to find a person on every fight that consistently stays above 35% health to let ZS actually run its course.

No he's in the right place. It was my understanding that because Chi Wave no longer goes for the lowest health target and instead goes for a random healable target within range, that its efficiency was crippled in 6.0 and thus ZS would provide more efficient use of that talent as long as you have melee nearby.

Assuming you have only one melee, on average you're going to get about half the healing of a full Zen Sphere, using CW. That amount would only go lower with more melee, since only four of those bounces are going to be heals.

Unless of course tanks are going to be pretty consistently under 35% health and thus ruining the HoT of ZS. Otherwise though I think ZS is going to be the more consistent healer for those who aren't soloing content.

[Totaltotemic]

Well yeah, Chi Wave is kind of awful now, but Zen Sphere's detonate healing is awful because it still diminishes if it heals more than 6 people, meaning you can't rely on the detonate at all if you have any decent number of melee.

I actually wouldn't use CW or ZS, they're both unreliable as hell. I just repeated the test now to make sure nothing really changed, but Chi Burst is providing quite a lot more healing than the worst case scenarios of Chi Wave only being on yourself and Zen Sphere detonating within 2 ticks (2 hits in Mythic should bring you down right around 35%, of course this is if ZS decides not to bug out and does actually detonate instead of disappearing). It's a long cooldown, but with how extremely low ZS and CW healing is, I think I'd prefer the 7% max health heal on a 30 second CD (before Resolve) over the <1% heal every 15 seconds or the 2% heal if ZS happens to get a couple of ticks off before it detonates. Plus there's the group healing bonus as well.

[The Madgod]

Well yeah, Chi Wave is kind of awful now, but Zen Sphere's detonate healing is awful because it still diminishes if it heals more than 6 people, meaning you can't rely on the detonate at all if you have any decent number of melee.

I actually wouldn't use CW or ZS, they're both unreliable as hell. I just repeated the test now to make sure nothing really changed, but Chi Burst is providing quite a lot more healing than the worst case scenarios of Chi Wave only being on yourself and Zen Sphere detonating within 2 ticks (2 hits in Mythic should bring you down right around 35%, of course this is if ZS decides not to bug out and does actually detonate instead of disappearing). It's a long cooldown, but with how extremely low ZS and CW healing is, I think I'd prefer the 7% max health heal on a 30 second CD (before Resolve) over the <1% heal every 15 seconds or the 2% heal if ZS happens to get a couple of ticks off before it detonates. Plus there's the group healing bonus as well.

Alright, interesting. I'll have to check that myself and edit the guide if necessary.

[Ampere]

I've been using Zen Sphere a lot and liking it so far. I know Level 90 tuning is awful though, so I'll probably try all three a bit at 100.

I did the Moonfang fight the other day when she was still level 103, it was funny because her melee would put me at 30% hp and a purify would almost full heal me (4 piece bonus).

Cool, looking forward to the 6.2 rework of CE where they give it the RJW treatment because nobody's using it.

And the 7.0 rework when they move CE to Chi Torpedo's slot and make that talent row a clear AoE tier.

Chi Torpedo should probably just be a MW only ability. It had a place when Vengeance affected healing others on some fights, but now I don't really see a need.

[Forumchibi]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm slightly confused on Chi Explosion.

CE replaces Blackout Kick, but while BoK says it increases parry by 10%, there's no mention of that usefulness in CE's description. Was that overlooked in the tooltip, or does it not give the parry bonus?

[Jocias]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm slightly confused on Chi Explosion.

CE replaces Blackout Kick, but while BoK says it increases parry by 10%, there's no mention of that usefulness in CE's description. Was that overlooked in the tooltip, or does it not give the parry bonus?

Shuffle increases parry by 10% and increases Stagger by 10%. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115307

Blackout kick gives you 6 seconds of Shuffle per use. That equates to about 3 seconds of Shuffle per chi. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=100784 (check the box next to Brewmaster Training)

The tooltip for ChEx states that it gives you 2 seconds of Shuffle per Chi used plus an additional 2 seconds. You will always use ChEx at either 3 or 4 chi. This means you'll get either 2.66 or 2.5 seconds of Shuffle per chi with ChEx. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157676

[Forumchibi]

Ahh, I see. Thank you very much!

[Extremities]

Am I the only Brewmaster tank that thinks that our healing tier of talents are pretty pathetic in comparison to other tanks? Wave sucks now, sphere's healing is laughable and chi burst isn't even noticeable. I mean seriously, wtf is the point of that tier now that its been gutted beyond belief? Its sad. Overall, I feel monks in general whether its tanking or healing are in a bad spot right now. Tank wise we have a lot more uptime of setting up abilities and same with healing. We have to spend time setting up certain abilities to even be able to use other abilities. And healing.. don't get me started with how terrible healing is at 90 right now. Sitting in 540 ilvl healing gear where my other healers are all hovering around 520(I just recently came back so haven't been able to get all my characters up to speed on gear) but my Monk does less healing then my lowered geared healers. And AoE healing.. wow.. we blow. But sorry that's a different topic. This is about Brewmasters. Just venting

[keqe]

I find the GotO orbs extremely powerful at 90. 5 of them basically heals half of my health which is ridiculous considering that they spawn quite often. I don't know how much they will heal in 100 but at least 90 lvl is fine. Level 30 talents suck I give you that but expel harm (at 90) still crits almost your own health still.