[6.0 Guide] Arms - The 10 second master

[Archimtiros]

i also hope they change SS at least a bit towards QoL like: runtime 15 secs, cd 10 secs ... so you can "clip" it a bit and dont have to hammer the button, just to make sure the next MS that comes off cd at the exact same time actually benefits from the buff
or you know... just make it toggle-able cause the reduced cleave-dmg would actually be penalty enough

It actually is 15s up due to the perk, Enhanced Sweeping Strikes. The cooldown is there so that you can't overwrite the effect though, so there is essentially no way in how it functions, it must fall off to be used again.

I think a more elegant solution would be to give it a pandemic style effect so that it can be refreshed early (but only 2s or so) and extend the timer instead of overwriting.

Allow the spell to be recast when <3 seconds remain on the buff, and add the duration to current instead of overwriting it for a (now) 18s buff. It would still get refreshed every 15s, so no actual change in rage consumption, only it wouldn't lose any uptime and give us some QoL. By not allowing it to be refreshed at any time and limiting it to only <3s, it controls the buff duration better, eliminates buff extension capping and keeps us from wasting rage. It would in essence work exactly the same as it does now, but be much easier for everyone.

Also it really needs to be usable during Bladestorm. If nothing else but for my sanity when it comes to timing.

[Sethanor]

Also it really needs to be usable during Bladestorm. If nothing else but for my sanity when it comes to timing.

/fixed :P

actually didnt even bother to read the perk... always thought it gives +5s to uptime AND cd ... but as long as it has the "stronger buff" shit, i guess its basically the same problem.
the pandemic would be awesome, alltho at this point, just being able to clip it would be huge xD
(maybe need a cancelaura on that one as well -.- gnah)

but i see your point ... i wouldnt mind if there is no revamp of arms, as long as we get some meaningfull changes so that is actual fun to play.

sometimes it needs a lot of strange or even bad ideas to get to the good stuff and as there is nothing else we can do but through ideas at them and hope something sticks, we just have to do so

[Archimtiros]

/fixed :P

actually didnt even bother to read the perk... always thought it gives +5s to uptime AND cd ... but as long as it has the "stronger buff" shit, i guess its basically the same problem.
the pandemic would be awesome, alltho at this point, just being able to clip it would be huge xD
(maybe need a cancelaura on that one as well -.- gnah)

but i see your point ... i wouldnt mind if there is no revamp of arms, as long as we get some meaningfull changes so that is actual fun to play.

sometimes it needs a lot of strange or even bad ideas to get to the good stuff and as there is nothing else we can do but through ideas at them and hope something sticks, we just have to do so

Yeah thanks, I meant Bladestorm ofc. I really need to learn to stop posting in the middle of the night.

I thought about a cancelaura/reapplication, but it doesn't work for me because I hate watching the timing of the buff all the time. Honestly what I do is just put sweeping strikes on an easy to spam key and just mash it the whole time. Inelegant but it works.

[Sethanor]

not sure if bugged or just stupid blizzard shit:

Sweeping Strikes has a 15 sec runtime AND 15 sec cooldown (so my feeling was right) ... the perk "SHOULD" add only 5s runtime, but appearently they fucked up yet again ...

just checked it ingame ...

perk only states "adds 5 sec to duration" ... but still, the cooldown is increased as well
(playing on EU here, just btw ^^)

[Nightstalker]

Just activate SS and "lose" 2 or 3 rage per whiteswing in other words: decrease rage generation slightly when ss is up (toggle on/off etc).
And yes that's what blade flurry did/still does?

[Archimtiros]

Just activate SS and "lose" 2 or 3 rage per whiteswing in other words: decrease rage generation slightly when ss is up (toggle on/off etc).
And yes that's what blade flurry did/still does?

Difference with Bladeflurry is that Energy is generated in linearly. That is, you are constantly (and smoothly) generating rage over time.

Arms rage generation is much different because it is generated in chunks, with a significant amount of time between them. This is why our GCD use is so funky, and if we don't generate enough Rage to use 2-3 GCDs on each swing, we end up with randomized gaps in our rotation. Sweeping Strikes front loads the cost, and that does have a similar overall effect, but a much smoother one, since we can better pre-plan our rage use.

[ItsLaw]

Difference with Bladeflurry is that Energy is generated in linearly. That is, you are constantly (and smoothly) generating rage over time.

Arms rage generation is much different because it is generated in chunks, with a significant amount of time between them. This is why our GCD use is so funky, and if we don't generate enough Rage to use 2-3 GCDs on each swing, we end up with randomized gaps in our rotation. Sweeping Strikes front loads the cost, and that does have a similar overall effect, but a much smoother one, since we can better pre-plan our rage use.

Not entirely true. Yes, energy regenerates at a smoother rate, but they have multiple random sources that can generate additional energy. Such as off hand and main gauche attacks.

Additionally, I like sweeping strikes as it is. Bladestorm would be great if it scaled a bit better, but it still gives us a niche. 2 Target Cleave and Burst AoE is our bread and butter. If they changed SS to be like blade flurry, it would make us gods of everything related to multiple targets, and would homogenize the spec even more.

[Archimtiros]

Not entirely true. Yes, energy regenerates at a smoother rate, but they have multiple random sources that can generate additional energy. Such as off hand and main gauche attacks.

Additionally, I like sweeping strikes as it is. Bladestorm would be great if it scaled a bit better, but it still gives us a niche. 2 Target Cleave and Burst AoE is our bread and butter. If they changed SS to be like blade flurry, it would make us gods of everything related to multiple targets, and would homogenize the spec even more.

Yes they do, but that doesn't change the point, being that Arms only generates its rage in slow chunks; which is what gaps our GCDs.

You say cleave is the niche, but it really isn't anymore. Arms cleave is no better than many other classes, and worse it requires us to use a specific talent (TfB) to enable it and limits us to 2-3 targets, whereas other classes with similar cleave mechanics don't have that cap (monks, rogues, mages, ele sham).

Burst AoE is ok as Arms, not nearly as good as Fury, and falling behind most Warlocks, but not terrible. The only thing Arms really has going for it is ridiculous Execute potential, which is an incredibly flawed design point.

Homogenization isn't bad as long as it is controlled. Ideally you don't want every class to be able to do everything, but it has to be grounded in the reality. Encounter design directly impacts in how useful "unique" niches can be, like two target cleave. Arms cleave is a great example, because there are really only a few fights this tier which revolve around high uptime on only a few targets. By contrast, a Rogues Bladeflurry is good in a broad spectrum of situations.

And to be fair, just because two classes share a similar toolkit (Sweeping Strikes/Bladeflurry), doesn't really equal homogenization by a large margin, and the corrective implications for the Arms spec would be huge. No longer being a 1-2 button AoE spec; more use of Colossus Smash, even in AoE situations, eliminating excess (and unliked) buttons from the rotation and problematic talents.

[BadTastingPudding]

I don't play rogue so I'm not sure but would a bladeflurry version of SS keep all rotations (single target, 2-target cleave, all out aoe) virtually identical outside of talent switching? Or would there still be elements of rotational variety like how tfb and ss target limit force us to adapt our rotation depending on the number of targets?

[Archimtiros]

I don't play rogue so I'm not sure but would a bladeflurry version of SS keep all rotations (single target, 2-target cleave, all out aoe) virtually identical outside of talent switching? Or would there still be elements of rotational variety like how tfb and ss target limit force us to adapt our rotation depending on the number of targets?

Go back a couple pages and read my long post. Short answer: It would be very close to identical, but you would still have to keep up Rend and the like. Con is that it makes for a rather static rotation; pro's is that we don't end up using a 2 button rotation every time we get extra targets while CS and talents can actually become useful again.

[ItsLaw]

I like the idea of excelling at 2 target cleave, which we definitely would be amazing at if some of the other ideas you mentioned were put into place. The main issue why we are falling behind, from what I understand, is the lack of scaling on our AoE abilities.

Basically, I don't think SS is broken, therefore I don't think it should be "fixed." First things first, increase our talent damage scaling!

[Archimtiros]

I like the idea of excelling at 2 target cleave, which we definitely would be amazing at if some of the other ideas you mentioned were put into place. The main issue why we are falling behind, from what I understand, is the lack of scaling on our AoE abilities.

Basically, I don't think SS is broken, therefore I don't think it should be "fixed." First things first, increase our talent damage scaling!

Might not consider it broken, but its definitely weak. Not including ridiculous Executes, we aren't any stronger at 2 target cleave than anyone else and they are stronger with more targets.

You can't one trick pony a spec like that' when you do the whole thing suffers anytime you aren't doing that specific type of encounter, which is most of the time!

[BadTastingPudding]

Go back a couple pages and read my long post. Short answer: It would be very close to identical, but you would still have to keep up Rend and the like. Con is that it makes for a rather static rotation; pro's is that we don't end up using a 2 button rotation every time we get extra targets while CS and talents can actually become useful again.

Ah right, I guess it'd have to depend on how engaging the rotation becomes, because although we have slightly different rotations they're all quite boring so I don't think I'd mind losing that variety for something a bit more challenging like what you suggested.

[Deleted]

For anyone who's done CMs, how did you wind up gearing? I have my default idea but I just want to compare. Gotta love having a stat that's wholly wasted in some situations and really powerful in others.

[Vandler]

For anyone who's done CMs, how did you wind up gearing? I have my default idea but I just want to compare. Gotta love having a stat that's wholly wasted in some situations and really powerful in others.

You create two sets; one with Crit > Multi for trash and one wit Crit > Mastery for bosses. Use a macro to switch between the two item sets.

[Deleted]

Jesus, duh. I didn't even think of gear switching which is just bizarre given that I'd already been going over bigger hassles like spec-switching. It's a complete non-issue then, carry on.

[Nightstalker]

When they removed overpower they made a vage promise, that we will get an unavoidable attack for this (can't be dodged/parried). I'd say Arms should get a passive that reduces parry chance for whitehits (auto attacks) and CS by 3% (for PvE) or even more, since PvP is just a dodge/parry-fest in later seasons against other melees.

[Archimtiros]

When they removed overpower they made a vage promise, that we will get an unavoidable attack for this (can't be dodged/parried). I'd say Arms should get a passive that reduces parry chance for whitehits (auto attacks) and CS by 3% (for PvE) or even more, since PvP is just a dodge/parry-fest in later seasons against other melees.

I don't recall this promise but I wouldn't hold them accountable by anything said. Unfortunately design just doesn't always work that way, it is a constantly shifting narrative.

Personally, I don't think we particularly need any kind of unavoidable attack, though I think the defensive game has gotten out of hand for a lot of classes (see my post in other thread regarding survivability).

I do like your passive parry reduction idea though Parry Haste does serve that function to a degree, it isn't always useful, especially in PvP. One of my main issues with Arms is the way it's rage is generated is very sensitive. Similarly I really think the cooldown of Colossus Smash should be reset if it fails to hit the target, just like Ret Paladins holy power spenders do, and Raging Blow now doesn't consume Meat Cleaver if it is parried.

[Sethanor]

just get rid of the 3% parry ... it hurts some classes way too much with current movement and rotation-heavy boss-designs

[Archimtiros]

just get rid of the 3% parry ... it hurts some classes way too much with current movement and rotation-heavy boss-designs

I think its a decent mechanic. Frontal parry is there for a fundamental reason, it's just more detrimental to some specs and abilities than others.