[6.0 Guide] Arms - The 10 second master

[chooi]

Yeah sometimes I get my wires crossed. There are a lot of conversations floating around here. In that case, sure the MS resets aren't helpful but you still benefit from the faster Rend ticks. This is why I preferred Mortal Strike being a generator, and integral part of the rotation instead of something that gets dropped completely when Execute comes around.

I don't care if Executes are big shiny numbers, simplifying a rotation is fine but reducing it to one button (and 2 more every 20s) is just dumb.

To be honest, I really love the Arms execute-phase because it is so dumb. I think it fits the warrior feeling very well ('You dead now! Die, Motherflower!') by smashing like a truck on an opponent that is already near death. It's like 'dont think, just kill it off'.

I only wish that they made the pre-execute-phase more appealing and competitive in singletarget situations.

[Archimtiros]

To be honest, I really love the Arms execute-phase because it is so dumb. I think it fits the warrior feeling very well ('You dead now! Die, Motherflower!') by smashing like a truck on an opponent that is already near death. It's like 'dont think, just kill it off'.

I only wish that they made the pre-execute-phase more appealing and competitive in singletarget situations.

In theory I agree. I think that Execute should simplify the rotation sub 20% because it fits the theme of the Warrior dropping (most) everything to finish off his opponent.

I only think Arms took it too far, with it's massive damage boost and high rage cost. Simplifying the rotation in itself, and enabling the stronger attack should give a healthy DPS boost on its own. It doesn't need to quadruple damage to get that feeling across.

[nativity]

In theory I agree. I think that Execute should simplify the rotation sub 20% because it fits the theme of the Warrior dropping (most) everything to finish off his opponent.

I only think Arms took it too far, with it's massive damage boost and high rage cost. Simplifying the rotation in itself, and enabling the stronger attack should give a healthy DPS boost on its own. It doesn't need to quadruple damage to get that feeling across.

Which the SD nerf shouldn't have taken place, roll back to either 155% or 175% for PVE, retain 135% for PVP and limit execute to consume up to 20 rage in the instead of 30 rage during the execution phase

[Nightstalker]

Let's hope for a PvP/PvE split for most abilities in 7.0. But I guess that would be too early.

[Archimtiros]

Let's hope for a PvP/PvE split for most abilities in 7.0. But I guess that would be too early.

I hope, I pray.

[nativity]

Let's hope for a PvP/PvE split for most abilities in 7.0. But I guess that would be too early.

Probably every WOW warriors are hoping as well.... end this fuck shit expac and start rebuilding

[Nightstalker]

Tested the DoT trinket. How bad is it for Arms? Or how GOOD for Gladiator (read a bit about the spamstring)? Managed to get the DoT to 40 stacks with BLust Drums. You can get it even higher in Tanaan Jungle (New Fish Bufffood). But that's just for fun or for DPS cheezing on Kazzak.

[Archimtiros]

Tested the DoT trinket. How bad is it for Arms? Or how GOOD for Gladiator (read a bit about the spamstring)? Managed to get the DoT to 40 stacks with BLust Drums. You can get it even higher in Tanaan Jungle (New Fish Bufffood). But that's just for fun or for DPS cheezing on Kazzak.

Spamstring is dead, though it wasn't going to go live anyways. DoT trinket isn't as good for Arms as Fury/Glad simply because they don't use as many actions as quickly. While it caps out at 50 stacks, the quicker you get them up, the more damage it will do.

[Deleted]

I don't like the trinket choice as Arms in 6.2.

Chorus doesn't Scale with Mastery like it does on fury.
Horn isn't a good choice for a slow class like Arms Warrior.
Unending Hunger probabbly woudn't reach 20 stacks fast enough.

What do we go with? Worldbreaker + Maidens?

[bladeXcrasher]

I don't like the trinket choice as Arms in 6.2.

Chorus doesn't Scale with Mastery like it does on fury.
Horn isn't a good choice for a slow class like Arms Warrior.
Unending Hunger probabbly woudn't reach 20 stacks fast enough.

What do we go with? Worldbreaker + Maidens?

Worldbreaker and Chorus

[Deleted]

So i was trying to get the highest single target dps with arms but i wasn't too clear on what talents or gear i should use.
I have the option to go 2-4 set bonus but at the cost of 3-4 mythic items. One of them being warforged.

Considering above would it still be wise to stick with SD or spec into slam. Or pick up one of the bonusses and spec SD.
Also consider it's near impossible to 3x slam during cs since you often prio Stormbolt or Siegebreaker (depending on spec)

Secondly it feels like every guide/ site tells. Bloodbath vs Avatar is best. If you consider dps output (not the length of the fight) what would be best?
Then comes the last row. I kind of feel anger management is a cheap way out (again depending on fight length.) Other guides say ravager is just as effective single target as siegbreaker is.

[Archimtiros]

So i was trying to get the highest single target dps with arms but i wasn't too clear on what talents or gear i should use.
I have the option to go 2-4 set bonus but at the cost of 3-4 mythic items. One of them being warforged.

Considering above would it still be wise to stick with SD or spec into slam. Or pick up one of the bonusses and spec SD.
Also consider it's near impossible to 3x slam during cs since you often prio Stormbolt or Siegebreaker (depending on spec)

Secondly it feels like every guide/ site tells. Bloodbath vs Avatar is best. If you consider dps output (not the length of the fight) what would be best?
Then comes the last row. I kind of feel anger management is a cheap way out (again depending on fight length.) Other guides say ravager is just as effective single target as siegbreaker is.

Sudden Death > Slam, Bloodbath > Avatar, AM is the default choice when it allows your Reck to line up with trinkets such as Vial. Without that, Siegebreaker is about equal or slightly better.

[Warriorsarri]

Siegebreaker is good on sims, in practice I've never been able to get it to outshine either AM nor Ravager. In general what I've been going with is:

1:30-2:15 SD-BB-Rav
2:16-3:30 SD-BB-AM
3:31-4:30 SD-BB-Rav
4:31-6:00 SD-BB-AM

SD is always king for single target, unless you're in dungeon blues, in which case slam wins.
Ravager and AM depends on the fight length, if you're able to get another use of Reck in by using AM or not. (Fights longer than 6 mins becomes complicated as the extra uses of reck is during times when your damage is naturally low (above 20%))
When it comes to Avatar vs. Bloodbath it's hard to call which one is best. I personally prefer Bloodbath as it buffs your damage in execute range as it buffs the damage of execute by 10% more than Avatar, most of your damage sub 20% is done during the CS in which you pop all your cds, so making that one burst bigger usually yields higher results.

[Sliske]

Let's hope for a PvP/PvE split for most abilities in 7.0. But I guess that would be too early.

Why is it just accepted that when a X.0 patch comes around, we're stuck with what is in it for the next 2 years? Why is it just played off like its impossible for them to go back in and fix major, major problems that cause hundreds of thousands if not millions of players to quit? Why is class fun and fluidity treated like its not even in the top 5 most important things for them to immediately get right and address?

Buy expansion, oh look they ruined Arms, I guess I just have to wait for 2 years until they possibly fix it, even though they completely ignored 99% of feedback that was almost universally negative. Why do people have hopes that they will fix it in the future when they've displayed extreme incompetence since early WoD beta. The multiple 180s on design philosophy, the failed promises, the changes with no explanation, the "put your head in the sand" style of selective feedback gathering; pick out the 1 in 10,000 that actually likes it and put them on a pedestal, is if to say that this is the general consensus.

How has class fluidity and fun spiralled downwards for so long without someone slamming the breaks? Why is it treated like some impossible task, like they're in some beach with a metal detector trying to find the special recipe to classes being fun. We have dozens of instances in the past 11 years were classes were very fucking fun. WoTLK, Cata, even as close as 5.4.

The devs are surrounded by solutions and yet they act as if it is an impossible job. Forget about balance, do that AFTER. No one cares how balanced a game is if it isn't fun. Rock paper scissors is balanced but you don't see anyone singing that games praises. At what point did fun become less of a priority than balance or accessibility?

Seriously. Stop treating this "oh we'll fix it in 2 years time" idea like its normal or acceptable. It is lazy as fuck.

[Archimtiros]

Because class changes rarely cause players to quit. They either A) Grumble about it and keep playing, B) Play a different class/spec, or C) Quit for a short time and come back when new content is released ala "play casually".

To be fair, the idea for the model is sound; spend a longer amount of time making something correctly so you don't have to go back and fix it. Unfortunately it just doesn't always work out that way and as they are constantly "working forward", they just don't have the downtime to spend significant amounts of time changing things mid expansion.

There's also the well known fact that players always complain when something changes. It doesn't matter if it is unequivocally the greatest class change ever, no matter how good it is for the class/spec, players or game as a whole, someone will bitch about it. They've actually found that more people get annoyed when their favorite specs are changed mid-expansion (that is while they are continually playing the class/going through content), rather than changing it between expansions, when players are more prone to be excited for new things.

I won't pretend I've always been happy with the decisions or how they are made, but I can see how they come to the conclusions, and like it or not, they are the ones calling the shots. Nothing any of us can do would change that if we wanted to; all we can do is voice our concerns.

[Nightstalker]

Is there a link/collection of T18 (hc/m) Sims? Is Arms Singletarget boosted by Trinkets/T18? Or are we still a benchwarmer spec?

[Archimtiros]

Arms isn't as good as Fury is, if that is what you are asking. That doesn't make it unplayable or even uncompetitive however, just go ask WarriorSarri, I'm sure he will talk your ear off about it. There are a couple gimmicky fights in HFC though that work extremely well with Arms setup though (2 target cleave, heavy execute phase), so the spec will definitely see some love, even if Fury will be the better all around pick.

I've got some preliminary ranking sims but holding off on posting them because there are tuning passes still to come, so a lot could happen. As for gearing, it's trinkets and tier bonus work well for both single and multi target DPS.

[Nightstalker]

Ok, that's all I need to hear.

[Deleted]

Number crunching patch will be comming to the ptr shortly. I really do want to see a boost in arms single target.
It shoulden't surpass fury ofcourse. But i feel we might use either a buff to:

Improved rend: (buffing single target without adding burst in pvp, making haste less of a trash stat)

Sudden death: being quite lackluster compared to fury. (maybe a slightly higher ppm).

Slam: Even in it's buffed state it still hits like a wet noodle unless 3 stacked in a cs. (which rarely happens when you use stormbolt, siegebreaker or any set bonus that can randomly reset something.)

Mortal strike: It hits hard. But when comparing it to some other abilities that do not even require you to ignore 100% armor. (raging blow, some hunter abilities. Some powerful caster instant casts like moonkin or shadowpriest.) It feels quite average.

Stormbolt/ Siegebreaker: Good fillers that are a part of the pve rotation. Yet both these abilities scale quite bad as mastery doesn't effect them. Unlike the fury version.

I do not say buff all of it. But these are some options i see.

[Archimtiros]

Number crunching patch will be comming to the ptr shortly. I really do want to see a boost in arms single target.
It shoulden't surpass fury ofcourse. But i feel we might use either a buff to:

Improved rend: (buffing single target without adding burst in pvp, making haste less of a trash stat)

Sudden death: being quite lackluster compared to fury. (maybe a slightly higher ppm).

Slam: Even in it's buffed state it still hits like a wet noodle unless 3 stacked in a cs. (which rarely happens when you use stormbolt, siegebreaker or any set bonus that can randomly reset something.)

Mortal strike: It hits hard. But when comparing it to some other abilities that do not even require you to ignore 100% armor. (raging blow, some hunter abilities. Some powerful caster instant casts like moonkin or shadowpriest.) It feels quite average.

Stormbolt/ Siegebreaker: Good fillers that are a part of the pve rotation. Yet both these abilities scale quite bad as mastery doesn't effect them. Unlike the fury version.

I do not say buff all of it. But these are some options i see.

It's not just the mastery scaling, talents are pretty weak in general now for Arms and Fury.