Disc stat weights

[Noradin]

CoW is capped at 50% of the target's hp, DA and SS are capped at 60% of the disc priest's hp and PWS is uncapped because of Weakened Soul.

Nah, PW:S is not "uncapped", there situation where a cap would be applied never arises since since it cannot be extended but is overwritten.

[Aparthia]

Nah, PW:S is not "uncapped", there situation where a cap would be applied never arises since since it cannot be extended but is overwritten.

What's the cap then?

[Noradin]

What's the cap then?

Does not apply :P

[Aparthia]

Does not apply :P

Right, since PWS doesn't have a cap.

[Deleted]

So with all this in mind, what stats are people going for with their pre-raid gear?
Are you going to follow the table as closely as possible for max raw throughput or does your healing style call for something else?

Item options also become an issue, the mst+crit items are few and far between, then there's spirit too...


I kind of want to go mostly mastery (which also gives lots of Versatility QQ) and some crit (about half of mastery).
Then about 1100-1200 spirit, rather have too much than to little to begin with. Got extra troughput trinkets to swap in if called for.

[Evry]

Yeah, the itemization this tier for disc is pretty bad no matter how you slice it.
I'm going to prioritize mastery and then get as much spirit and crit as possible. Probably stick with 2 regen trinkets, none of the proc ones look that amazing. Will have to figure out how much item level vs mastery is worth sacrificing once in Highmaul gear :|

I haven't decided if I'm going to use mastery or spirit weapon enchant. The mastery one should work out to more stats, average, but I could take the spirit one and drop a spirit ring for static throughput. I think mastery/throughput procs are less likely to be wasted for a disc priest than another healer, though.

[Soulstrike]

So with all this in mind, what stats are people going for with their pre-raid gear?
Are you going to follow the table as closely as possible for max raw throughput or does your healing style call for something else?

Item options also become an issue, the mst+crit items are few and far between, then there's spirit too...


I kind of want to go mostly mastery (which also gives lots of Versatility QQ) and some crit (about half of mastery).
Then about 1100-1200 spirit, rather have too much than to little to begin with. Got extra troughput trinkets to swap in if called for.

man i have so much versatility and crit on my gear :C only like 400 mastery iirc

[Noradin]

Right, since PWS doesn't have a cap.

Yes, like Heal, PoH and PoM it does not utilise a cap. Why would it? It has a maximal value set by your stats already, no need to impose another one.

[Aparthia]

Yes, like Heal, PoH and PoM it does not utilise a cap. Why would it? It has a maximal value set by your stats already, no need to impose another one.

You said earlier:

PW:S is not "uncapped"

Which is just another way of saying PW:S is capped. Pick one, you can't have both.

[Noradin]

Which is just another way of saying PW:S is capped. Pick one, you can't have both.

Not "uncapped" is not the same as "capped" if there is a third option: "does not apply".
If you ask for the colour of the sky and someone notes that the answer "cold" does not fit, would you automatically assume the correct colour of the sky must then be "hot"?

"Uncapped" would imply there was a cap before and there is none now, but there has in fact never been any cap or even need for nor any way to impose one similar as is done to our other absorbs. There is a maximum value that cannot be exceeded, though. So no there is no cap and it was not removed, the concept simply does not apply.

[Jimjam38]

Nah, PW:S is not "uncapped", there situation where a cap would be applied never arises since since it cannot be extended but is overwritten.

So does that mean that if you somehow got a single massive cast of CoW on someone, it could exceed the 50% cap, but further casts would not increase the value until the remaining absorb amount dropped below the cap, at which point you could not extend it beyond 50%?

Essentially, if you got a critical double multistrike CoW during archangel, with trinkets procced, that was so massive it was greater than 50% of the targets hp, would it be able to exceed the cap since it was only 1 cast?

- - - Updated - - -

You are correct; because PW:S and CoW do not share the special coupling between Critical strike and Mastery that Divine Aegis-producing heals do, their synergy is not present. As such, Critical strike and multistrike are virtually identical for scaling of these spells. The two reasons they're not exactly identical are (i) the 5% Critical strike attunement makes it scale slightly faster on a point-by-point basis, however (ii) you have heaps more baseline Critical strike than you do Multistrike, so you want a bit more Multistrike than Critical strike.

So what I'm interested in, is because you said that if the original PWS crits, any multistrikes will crit, doesn't that create a synergy between crit and multistrike that normal DA producing heals don't have? Essentially, crit drastically increases the value of multistrike, since if it crits, any multistrikes will also crit, making the value of those multistrikes much larger than if their chance to crit was independent?
And thus, wouldn't multistrike increases the value of crit, since multistrikes cannot crit independently, and so having multistrike makes it more desirable to have crit?

So wouldn't this mean that it's best to have even amounts (or chance?) of crit and multistrike?

And does this mean that since PWS / CoW don't have any special synergy with crit-mastery like DA heals do, that Crit becomes more valuable than mastery, and if multistrike is even with crit, does this mean that it would go Crit=Multi>mast?

- - - Updated - - -

Not "uncapped" is not the same as "capped" if there is a third option: "does not apply".
If you ask for the colour of the sky and someone notes that the answer "cold" does not fit, would you automatically assume the correct colour of the sky must then be "hot"?

"Uncapped" would imply there was a cap before and there is none now, but there has in fact never been any cap or even need for nor any way to impose one similar as is done to our other absorbs. There is a maximum value that cannot be exceeded, though. So no there is no cap and it was not removed, the concept simply does not apply.

Essentially, he's going full syntax grammar nazi on you. "Uncapped", technically, refers to removing the cap. In the case of PWS, there never was a cap, so it is technically impossible to 'uncap' it.

A better way of putting it is like saying, if you made a wooden desk, and then painted it, you couldn't say it was 'repainted' because it had never been painted before, you simply 'painted' it. "Repainted" doesn't apply.

However the question remains: Is there a maximum value for PWS which cannot be exceeded in a single cast? You say that

There is a maximum value that cannot be exceeded, though.

And since the definition of 'cap' (verb) is 'place a limit or restriction on', this means that the word "cap" is not exclusive to absorbs which can be extended.
If, as you say, there is a maximum value that cannot be exceeded, then yes, PWS has a cap.

[Myllior]

Oops you did mention that earlier; I missed it sorry. The linked critical - multistrike behaviour of PW:S and CoW does not create any special synergy between them. To illustrate, the expected healing for someone with 'C' % Critical strike and 'MS' % Multistrike can be determined, starting from the possible combinations of criticals and/or multistrikes for these spells.

Factor	Probability
x1	(1-C)(1-MS)2
x1.3	(1-C)(2)(MS)(1-MS)
x1.6	(1-C)(MS)2
x2	(C)(1-MS)2
x2.6	(C)(2)(MS)(1-MS)
x3.2	(C)(MS)2

By evaluating the expected value of this, we get,

E = (1-C)(1-MS)² + 2(C)(1-MS)² + (1.3)*[(1-C)(2)(MS)(1-MS) + 2(C)(2)(MS)(1-MS)] + (1.6)*[(1-C)(MS)² + 2(C)(MS)²]

We can factor out and evaluate the terms with 'C', so we do this,

E = [(1-C) + 2(C)]*[(1-MS)² + 2(1.3)(MS)(1-MS) + 1.6(MS)²] = (1+C)*[(1-MS)² + 2(1.3)(MS)(1-MS) + 1.6(MS)²] = (1+C)*F(MS)

Then by considering only the MS terms, we can arrive at our expected healing amount,

F(MS) = 1-2(MS)+(MS)²+2.6(MS)-2.6(MS)²+1.6(MS)² = 1+0.6MS
E = (1+C)(1+0.6MS)

Since this is the everyday, normal stat interaction for most spells and stats, Critical strike and Multistrike interact 'normally' for PW:S and Cow.

So wouldn't this mean that it's best to have even amounts (or chance?) of crit and multistrike?

Yes you would want even amounts of Critical strike and Multistrike, in terms of overall stat (i.e. percentage) for PW:S and CoW. When I mentioned the stats in my previous post, I was referring to the rating for the stats rather than the character pane values; I should have been clearer with what I meant.

And does this mean that since PWS / CoW don't have any special synergy with crit-mastery like DA heals do, that Crit becomes more valuable than mastery, and if multistrike is even with crit, does this mean that it would go Crit=Multi>mast?

Following from the above, the interaction between Critical strike and Multistrike for PW:S and CoW is normal, so Mastery is still the clear winner for those spells.

[Jimjam38]

Damn, that's so disappointing. Although, even as I was typing my last post I was starting to realize this in the back of my head. It evens out, because you ONLY get critical multistrikes when you crit, and you ONLY get normal multistrikes when you don't crit.
I suppose what it does mean is that you get noticeable, almost 'quantized' jumps in spell output, because it all dependent and so it ends up in specific 'sets', rather than all independent chances to crit or multistrike: You either have normal pws, you have normal pws with non-crit multisikes, you have critical pws, and you have critical pws with critical multistrikes.

Also. So what you're saying is it's mast > crit = multi for those spells?

[Noradin]

So does that mean that if you somehow got a single massive cast of CoW on someone, it could exceed the 50% cap, but further casts would not increase the value until the remaining absorb amount dropped below the cap, at which point you could not extend it beyond 50%?

Essentially, if you got a critical double multistrike CoW during archangel, with trinkets procced, that was so massive it was greater than 50% of the targets hp, would it be able to exceed the cap since it was only 1 cast?

Basically yes. The second cast would cut it down to the cap, though. (Meaning it has a negative effect)!
That is how DA where this kind of cap was needed first started out, and I do not remember this basic behaviour getting changed. (Since Ulduar.)
It should apply to all similar cases just with different caps and I believe I saw it happen with CoW. It hit for just below 100k on someone with 180k HP. I could be mistake,so maybetest it on lowies?

[Myllior]

So what you're saying is it's mast > crit = multi for those spells?

Pretty much. In terms of ratings you'd want a little bit more Multistrike than Critical strike (it varies, but ~200 for non-Worgen and ~300 for Worgen).

- - - Updated - - -

I've done a bit of work to improve upon the spreadsheet I posted earlier. It's pretty much the same although I've included accurate modelling of Atonement and Flash Heal/Prayer of Healing cast under the effects of Empowered Archangel. I've also updated the equation document to reflect this, and have included a PDF version as the equations do display online (unlike the Word version).

Spreadsheet: drive.google.com/file/d/0B1CefMp4nAVxT2t3SVAzZEo1ZW8/view?usp=sharing

Equations (Word): drive.google.com/file/d/0B1CefMp4nAVxOG9wN1BRWG1fZ1k/view?usp=sharing

Equations (PDF): drive.google.com/file/d/0B1CefMp4nAVxNmxSRlNQN0lONkE/view?usp=sharing

[Aparthia]

Incredible work Myllior!

[Revellion]

Greetings, im playing warrior myself, but my gf goes for disc priest.
Today i've noticed some guy is selling wowhead.com/item=118812. So i'd like to ask how good it is for disc priest?

[Deleted]

Greetings, im playing warrior myself, but my gf goes for disc priest.
Today i've noticed some guy is selling wowhead.com/item=118812. So i'd like to ask how good it is for disc priest?

It's good. I have it.

So are we going int>crit to 18%>mastery>multistrike>haste>vers now?

[Deleted]

Hi guys, I'm a new retard-priest from Italy and this is my question:

We are going to play Mastery/Crit. Seems to be legit, but we arent comfortable with the highmaul's items. There are a lot of multistrike/haste items, so what is the role of the Tailoring items in our plans? We can try to found a better gear with Mastery/Crit and prefer those items rather than pick highmaul's items?

Sorry for my bad english, i'm a n00b.

[Aparthia]

You can use the spreadsheet Myllior shared above to figure out the weights and hence the (un)attractiveness of your various stats.