WoD MM rotation question

[Inval1d]

Careful Aim is not just in the first 80% of boss health. It is also triggered during Rapid Fire, which is why you'll never want to delay RF either. The rotation is detailed on my MM guide on EJ, including Careful Aim considerations. Chimera Shot is ALWAYS used on CD. It's DPE is very high.

Link to guide is in signature. Lokrick also discusses Bombardment and why it's not all that useful with less than 7 mobs on his second post, first page.

Your stat priority in that guide seems to deviate from what Azor and others have been recommending for MM, could you explain why you value haste over mastery?

[Razorice]

It's in the F.A.Q thread somewhere.

Barrage > Glaive Toss.

Thanks dude

[benthehunter]

Hmm, I personally hate the new barrage cost and it's niche within MM's rotation. So I was really happy when I've read this post from Delirum on Thrill of the wild blog, stating the follow (for single target fights):

"There are a few bits of information I can gleam from this. The first, most glaring one, is Barrage is not useful as MM with Lone Wolf. The buff to Aimed Shot is enough that the cost of Barrage (and by cost, I mean the amount of time you'll have to spend casting Steady Shots) will make Barrage do less DPS than Aimed Shot with no procs. And since Aimed Shot has no CD, there would be no reason to ever cast Barrage. Of course, there are plenty of other reasons to use Barrage, like for bursting down adds, or AoE in general, but before I start thinking about considerations, I like to have a pure single-target priority system well defined."

Anyone else can confirm that?

[eschatological]

60 focus every 20s when you have a 50 focus spender and a 45 focus chimera shot is a lot. Like, really a lot. If it's still simming top come WoD launch, I'll do it, but for now I'm just sticking with Glaive Toss because it literally doesn't matter.

[Effinhunter]

Your stat priority in that guide seems to deviate from what Azor and others have been recommending for MM, could you explain why you value haste over mastery?

The second and third posts in the EJ guide explain the stat priorities. I have run almost all gear profiles and simply reported the stat priority decisions that will get you to BiS.

Mastery is definitely not better than haste in either T16 or T17 MM profiles. The relationship reported in the FAQ is not true for any of the top 50 BiS profiles for MM in either T16 or T17. Agility is not better than secondaries. Mastery is not better than haste for MM.

People need to understand exactly what the stat scaling section of the Simcraft section means before establishing priorities. It is incremental stat increases from current gear set, and is usually wrong for any long term gear decisions (weapon dps and agility are usually dependable, but secondaries rarely are unless one secondary dominates throughout a reforge plot). Additionally, when looking at primary stats versus secondary stats, you have to understand that primary stats cost 2x secondary stats in itemization, meaning that for primary stats to be worth targeting, they have to have a scaling factor that is 2x the secondaries (Simcraft stat scaling is per point not per stat weight investment).

To explain what this means, here is what was reported by Simcraft for T16 on 10/10 (it's changed since because of enchants, gemming and other things we have fixed in the Simcraft profile).



For agi to be better than crit, haste and mastery, it would need to be 2x their value from this point in the gear set. And I think I should repeat this, THIS STAT SCALING IS ALMOST ALWAYS USELESS FOR ESTABLISHING BIS. All this stat scaling means is that adding 1 point of each will add a certain dps from this point forward for 1 point of investment. It does not explain how you got there. For this information, you need to look at stats.

Here is the stats breakdown from that same post in the downloads section.



As you can see, to get to current T16 BiS, you'd need to focus on crit > haste >> mastery >= multistrike. That's why I've noted the kinds of relationships I have in the guide, and that's why Azor's reporting of the stat scaling section of Simcraft, as I have tried to repeatedly warn against, is wrong. I'm sure he'll fix it eventually.

If you're curious how the stat priority changes toward BiS in T17, this is detailed in the 3rd post of the EJ guide. Here are the current stat investments for ST BiS profile there:

1: 36356.4: T17M_MM_blood_elf_2222_002121112200120
      str: 883(927)
      agi: 4962(5675)
      int: 857(899)
   spirit: 709(709)
     stam: 5435(5978)
       ap: 0(6243)
       sp: 0(0)
     crit: 1516(36)
    haste: 630(12)
  mastery: 581(9)
  mstrike: 1232(24)
  versatl: 321(5)

The T17 MM and BM AoE Sims are currently running, and I'll update the guides as soon as they're finally done (sometime later tonight or early tomorrow). Each Scenario (ST, 3 target, or 6 target) is iterating through 17280 profiles, and that takes some time.

[Deleted]

Hmm, I personally hate the new barrage cost and it's niche within MM's rotation. So I was really happy when I've read this post from Delirum on Thrill of the wild blog, stating the follow (for single target fights):

"There are a few bits of information I can gleam from this. The first, most glaring one, is Barrage is not useful as MM with Lone Wolf. The buff to Aimed Shot is enough that the cost of Barrage (and by cost, I mean the amount of time you'll have to spend casting Steady Shots) will make Barrage do less DPS than Aimed Shot with no procs. And since Aimed Shot has no CD, there would be no reason to ever cast Barrage. Of course, there are plenty of other reasons to use Barrage, like for bursting down adds, or AoE in general, but before I start thinking about considerations, I like to have a pure single-target priority system well defined."

Anyone else can confirm that?

I guess that is true for level 100.

But now, during the pre patch we don't have lone wolf. and barrage does like 30% more dmg (singletarget) per cast for me then aimed shot.

[Inval1d]

WALL OF TEXT WAS HERE.

Thanks for taking the time to type that out, much appreciated! Great explanation.

[Lokrick]

Sorry for not addressing this, Thursley. The current action lists in Simcraft double up RF with the Careful Aim phase of the boss being 80%. I just checked with Lokrick and he says he tried delaying RF until after the 80% and it was a dps loss.

Having the additional 40% haste during the early Careful Aim and using it on cooldown looks like the way to go.

Yep. Getting even more haste and thus more aimed shots and more pet attacks (if you use stampede) while all your pots and trinkets are rocking is a win.