DK status/healing in WoD

[Kan]

POLL: DK HEALING/SURVIVABILITY STATUS

As it stands right now its near impossible to beat a dk 1v1. Immediately many of you will say "things arent balanced around that or 2s" but think for a moment here. In any situation in arena or a bg where u would encounter a dk and either ur alone or u and ur ally are not sufficiently prepared cd wise the dk would win. Moreso if your a caster considering the difficulty you would have with trying to get a cast off. In 2v2 if you are paired with a healer and you fight a dk with a healer or a dk with a pvp (even worse one with offheals) what do you do? Sure iv seen rogues win duels before by wearing them repeatedly using hit and run tactics down but in an arena match where its not just him and u have to depend on your partner who would be easily switched to if he doesnt have a stealth or escape like a rogue does and boom. easy loss. People saw ferals going from 0-100 with healing (now nerfed at least btw, not the case with a dk) but at least they could take dmg. and even better be cc'd with a stun or a fear. Also not the case with a dk.

i know many of you will say "dks were horrible in mop" but this is WoD. We should yes learn from mistakes that were in MoP but doesnt mean we should go overboard.


Quick overview of Dk healing.
They have Deathstrike healing on avg 40k per hit
empower rune (if glyphed) 133k)
Conversion 7-8k per tick/Deathpact (155k)/Deathsiphon (30-50k),
rune weapon strength enchant (on avg 100-150k on a 1min-2min fight).
Lichborne 100-150k+



All of these, besides the glyph, are on a 2min CD or spammable.
Not even including AMS which is technically a heal but not i left it out as it is only 5 second duration. Moreso under anti cc as it stops almost all CC effects on them that arent physical. Combine this with their anti CC build and the cc they have

What are your thoughts on how the class will be come WoD? or what should be changed if anything?
personally i wouldve like the class to go more towards dmg mitigation than healing.

[Deleted]

It's okay I guess.

[GodEmperor]

I main an unholy DK and from playing PTR I find it healing quite is a lot. Hope they nerf or straight out remove the Empower Rune weapon glyph heal and the Fallen Crusader enchant heal, don't really like the RNG fallen crusader heal even if it helps sometimes.

The rest I hope they don't touch because DKs are meant to be able to self heal a bit more due to lacking mobility, defenses or escapes like the other melee.

Hope they don't touch Death Strike because currently it's a good choice whether you'd spend the runes to damage by using it on Fester or Scourge or use it to heal yourself with DS.

Also none of the heals are spammable other than maybe conversion and it has a Hefty Rune cost. Much higher than MOP. And Dks were always the healing class rather than damage mitigation like warriors.

[Teujo]

DK's have always been extremely good at 1v1ing, nothing really new here.

[Skarssen]

DKs have always been about high damage output, weak damage reduction, weak mobility, but difficult to CC. NONE of this changes in WoD.

DK damage output will be similar to live. Frost is always high at the start of a season, but comes down in comparison to everyone else as it doesn't scale with gear aside from the weapon. Unholy will be significantly weaker as its DoTs have been nerfed, ghoul is nerfed, DC is nerfed, and strikes were buffed. Loss of necrotic strike hasn't been compensated for. Frost is the better PVP spec right now.

DK healing spells have all been nerfed or are unchanged. Death strike heals the same as it does on live. Conversion is weaker. Death Pact is weaker. ERW glyph is new, but its a 5min CD. Not really a big deal. Dark succor is weaker than live.

DK damage mitigation is weaker than live. Both icebound fortitude and blood presence are significantly weaker. AMS is unchanged.

The only area where there could be a problem is in the CC breaks. CC is down across the board, put DK's didn't lose any of their CC breaks. DK uptime on casters especially will be higher than live. If anything this is where DK's could take a nerf without killing the specs.

[Racthoh]

poll is a dumb idea here to be completely honest.

personally i think their healing is fine.

[Loli Squad 420]

Are frost and unholy DKs still sitting in blood pres or do we actually get to use our specialization's pres now?

[Bilgekhan]

I joined arena as a frost dk. I healed more than priest.
Even my partner rogue died they couldn't kill me.
I was bored and quit.
I have an ss but stupid forum don't let me to paste link.

[minteK917]

Are frost and unholy DKs still sitting in blood pres or do we actually get to use our specialization's pres now?

No the situation is much better in WoD. Blood is really only when you know you wont have incoming heals or the other team are using all their dps cooldowns. The classes doing the real damage this time around arent the one gibbing DK live. Rogues, other dk, warriors, ferals are where most of the damage coming from and they dont really kill you that fast. Blood is more like a cherry on top when you need it like warrior defensive stance on live, instead of being a requirement to sit in all game.

[Deleted]

crybabies who are used to killing dks on live now have a sudden reality check. gotcha

[Lulbalance]

I'm gonna tone this down a bit because I'm on 2 hours sleep and stuck in an airport (thanks Canadian thanksgiving..) Everything is annoying me right now.

Dks are not fine, not the gods that ferals are.. But not fine either. At all.

[Skarssen]

Are frost and unholy DKs still sitting in blood pres or do we actually get to use our specialization's pres now?

Neither spec should be "sitting" in BP, especially frost. Seeing a DK in BP when they are going offensive is always a dead give away of a poor/inexperienced player. Frost is good at one thing, and that is burst damage on target swaps. Sitting in BP completely negates its one strength for very little survivability gain. Unholy can do it with a bit less penalty, but even then it uses UP when dealing out pressure.

In 6.0+ BP is so weak that the survivability gain doesn't at all justify the damage output loss. Could use it when being hard swapped, but even you'd probably be better off keeping up offensive pressure and hoping they die before you do. Both specs are glass cannons. The days of unholy DKs turtling and letting DoTs, ghoul, DC and Garg kill someone are over.

And if DK healing is a problem it is because of battle fatigue, not any buffs to DK's. Conversion is weaker. Death Pact is technically nerfed. Death Strike is exactly the same. Fallen Crusader procs heal the same, but proc less frequently. BP sucks. Only thing that is stronger is the new ERW glyph which no one will take, but if a 30% heal on a 5min CD is game breaking then I don't know what to tell you. If anything you should be concerned about the number of CC breaks DKs have since CC is much more impactful now.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm gonna tone this down a bit because I'm on 2 hours sleep and stuck in an airport (thanks Canadian thanksgiving..) Everything is annoying me right now.

Dks are not fine, not the gods that ferals are.. But not fine either. At all.

Frost will get a damage nerf. It is inevitable, and we all expect it since Blizzard doesn't want frost doing well in PVP. Its sort of like retribution; a few really good players can make it work but if you want to PVP "seriously" you will have to go unholy/holy. I really don't think they will nerf DK healing more though since it certainly isn't OP in PVE

[Kan]

DKs have always been about high damage output, weak damage reduction, weak mobility, but difficult to CC. NONE of this changes in WoD.

DK damage output will be similar to live. Frost is always high at the start of a season, but comes down in comparison to everyone else as it doesn't scale with gear aside from the weapon. Unholy will be significantly weaker as its DoTs have been nerfed, ghoul is nerfed, DC is nerfed, and strikes were buffed. Loss of necrotic strike hasn't been compensated for. Frost is the better PVP spec right now.

DK healing spells have all been nerfed or are unchanged. Death strike heals the same as it does on live. Conversion is weaker. Death Pact is weaker. ERW glyph is new, but its a 5min CD. Not really a big deal. Dark succor is weaker than live.

DK damage mitigation is weaker than live. Both icebound fortitude and blood presence are significantly weaker. AMS is unchanged.

The only area where there could be a problem is in the CC breaks. CC is down across the board, put DK's didn't lose any of their CC breaks. DK uptime on casters especially will be higher than live. If anything this is where DK's could take a nerf without killing the specs.

im confused sir.. are you basing this off of live or level 100 gameplay? as live is by FAR not what level 100 gameplay is. and if deathstrike is healing the same live has been for mop please tell me where youre getting these extra percents.