Blood DK Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.2 Guide (Long but has TLDR Version)

[Ikrekot]

I suppose it don't work this way

[Saybel]

I wouldn't think so either... but it's 2 completely seperate chance to roll, and a similar thing happened with Monks and Druids in SoO when autoattack hits got pushed off the table because of Glance/Parry/Crit.

I think it's like 89% chance, I'll update original post to clarify.

[Troxism]

Math question.

Do none-multistrikes get pushed off the combat table? For example at 67%, the way I look at the math is that you;

67% chance to MS once for 30% damage
33.5% chance to MS twice for 60% damage

This would leave us at a 67% chance to generate 15 runic power, and 33.5% to generate 30, leaving us unable to generate 0 RP with an AA.

Does this mean we have approached 100% chance to multi at least once at 66.7% MS? Or does it DR when it goes higher.

Edit: Ah, I think it's 89.11% chance to generate RP on auto at 67% MS.

- Also, the notes are fine, nothing unexpected, no overnerfs and doesn't leave us in the gutter in terms of damage. Survivability issues can/maybe be fixed with tier, but I honestly don't feel like we have survivability issues anyway.

That isn't how multistrike works. The chances are independent. If you have 50% MS, there is a 25% chance of 0 multistrikes, 50% chance of 1 multistrike (with either the first or second), and 25% chance of a double multistrike. This is because the first and second MS are rolled independently. So no, at 67% MS, you don't have a 67% chance to multistrike once. It is actually considerably less. Multistrikes do not push anything off the combat table, because they are their own independent roll.

Edit: Some details:

With 67% sheet MS, your actual odds of a given result are as such:

0.67*0.67 = 0.4489 or 44.89% chance to multistrike twice.

(1-0.67)*(1-0.67) = 0.1089 or 10.89% chance for no multistrikes

And 1 - 0.4489 - 0.1089 = 0.4422 or 44.22% chance for only a single multistrike.

[Saybel]

Yeah I worked that out, comes to 89.11% chance per auto generate RP overall, worked that out after, I was trying to figure it "additively" instead of how it's actually done, I skipped the laws of probability in math so you can forgive me for that.

So we don't get 100% chance until we reach 100% chance, but the chance of getting a double multi increases overall until you reach 100% which gives you 2 multis every single time?

Glad to know multi isn't on the combat table though, I wasn't sure if it was or not. Still, depending on the ilvl next tier pretty high breath uptimes should still be possible.

edit: reading comprehension, i fail at.

[Saiyendra]

Assuming the legendary DPS ring doesn't function for tanks (as has been hinted elsewhere), does the proc on the 715 ring outweigh the extra stats on the 735 ring for DPS?

[Jellospally]

I don't see why the DPS ring won't work on tanks tbh. Unless we see fights that like require the damage reduction cd(which i bet we will on mythic need it at least on some fights) I would use the DPS ring.

In terms of dps ya the 715 will provide more dps than the 735 tank ring.

[Troxism]

Assuming the legendary DPS ring doesn't function for tanks (as has been hinted elsewhere), does the proc on the 715 ring outweigh the extra stats on the 735 ring for DPS?

If you can stack the rings (likely not, but hey, Blizzard has done way stupider things), then I would seriously question your priorities and thinking process if you wouldn't use the tanking ring, if they didn't share a CD, DPS would wear it just for another raid CD of that strength for many fights. Or you would just 3-4 tank every single fight regardless if it was spec locked.

Now if you can't (and all indications currently are that they won't be, and before you say tooltips, again, I've seen stupider things happen): Yes then the other tank should wear the 715 or 735 DPS ring... Of course this would be fucking retarded design, and good luck getting them to fix it, since they don't care about logic or sense, just how many people cry about something. But I wouldn't put it past them, since these actives, and the EVEN WORSE ones before it actually made it out of the design meeting without being laughed out of the room. I absolutely HATE these legendary rings in the next patch in basically every way; they are SO BROKEN that encounters will be designed around them (GL if you aren't up to date on the questline on one of your alts), (or they will just trivialize fights), they favour burst classes ridiculously (I'm talking about DPS here), and they are ripe for trolling in random raids where some idiot just pops them (assuming they share cds, because if they don't holy shit they are completely broken) in their swifty macro. And that is just some of the problems with them.

Too much Blizzard trying to make something 'cool' and not enough actually thinking for more then 5 seconds about the consequences. For them it's all about flashy and fun, instead of things that work well and are actually reasonably possible to balance. Goes along with their direction of making specs simpler and more RNG based, just so that everyone can be a winner, just have to win the RNG lottery (see Beastmastery for the perfect example of shit players doing amazingly with great RNG, and it's not the fault of the players they made the spec that way).

[Raiju]

I don't see why the DPS ring won't work on tanks tbh. Unless we see fights that like require the damage reduction cd(which i bet we will on mythic need it at least on some fights) I would use the DPS ring.

In terms of dps ya the 715 will provide more dps than the 735 tank ring.

Theck hinted it on his 'final post', as he apologized in the paladin forums for bringing it up in an implication that bringing it up made them consider locking it so tanks would not benefit from the dps ring.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post33312559

Last few tidbits that I can think of that may be relevant to the current conversation: The legendary ring procs should be coded such that the DPS ring just won't work on a tank. This is mostly my fault, because I raised the specter of "what if both tanks wear the DPS ring to exaggerate the effect on a DPS player during cooldowns." Average damage shouldn't be any higher (at least, in the last version I saw), but you could do some cheesy things with cooldowns.

Note this sounds like it is relevant to the previous dps ring incarnation, but it means it will be on their minds regardless.

[Jellospally]

Theck hinted it on his 'final post', as he apologized in the paladin forums for bringing it up in an implication that bringing it up made them consider locking it so tanks would not benefit from the dps ring.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post33312559



Note this sounds like it is relevant to the previous dps ring incarnation, but it means it will be on their minds regardless.

Way to make tanks do less damage when we upgrade our ring. Thank you blizzard. How is that fun? The current Tank legendary is literal dog shit compared to the previous one. I loved the 10% vers, 10% dmg share, 10% heal copy to other tank to what the new iteration is.

[Dreyen]

Agreed jellos.. actually this ring is jsut flat out worse for everyone more or less, yes you do get another "lust" for dps, but you lose so much uptime that you used to have with the current rings on a stat that scales.

[Jellospally]

Agreed jellos.. actually this ring is jsut flat out worse for everyone more or less, yes you do get another "lust" for dps, but you lose so much uptime that you used to have with the current rings on a stat that scales.

Like the DPS ring Version 2(as we see now on PTR) is 100% better than the Version 1. Though it is still dog shit. We need our legendary rings to be personal. Group wide on use is fucking not legendary its just a piece of shit replacement for removing fox/amp so the raid can still do shit as a whole.

The Version 2 ring of the Tank ring is absolute garbage compared to Version 1. Version 1 was at least a dps increase and a survival/mitigation increase. Version 2 is just a on use piece of shit CD we probably won't need unless they tune boss mechanics around it(which they say they don't, but they do anyway)

[Deleted]

Like the DPS ring Version 2(as we see now on PTR) is 100% better than the Version 1. Though it is still dog shit. We need our legendary rings to be personal. Group wide on use is fucking not legendary its just a piece of shit replacement for removing fox/amp so the raid can still do shit as a whole.

The Version 2 ring of the Tank ring is absolute garbage compared to Version 1. Version 1 was at least a dps increase and a survival/mitigation increase. Version 2 is just a on use piece of shit CD we probably won't need unless they tune boss mechanics around it(which they say they don't, but they do anyway)

The new version of the tank ring makes me very worried about tank balance. Sure, every tank has 1 CD more that he has to share with his OT, but the tanks that were already good against spikes due to their abundance/strength of CDs(DK and Monk) will ignore even more of the difficult aspects of a fight. Which means that the other tanks will have to have a boatload of EHP more to make up for the lack of CDs. Gruul/Oregorger as an example: if these fights were in HCF instead of BRF, the Slices/Torrents would probably come 10-20% faster due to the existence of the Ring CD... absolute horror scenario for a warrior and DKs and monks still don't give a crap.

[Saybel]

Probably still won't need the ring even if they tune boss mechanics around it mind you. Buff Rune Tap and all that business.

Slash coming faster isn't really a big of a concern for DKs, you can put 3 rune taps out in 45 seconds. Probably the best tank at dealing with "1shot" abilities aside from Monks. + Externals on top of that that you can call for.

[Deleted]

Probably still won't need the ring even if they tune boss mechanics around it mind you. Buff Rune Tap and all that business.

Slash coming faster isn't really a big of a concern for DKs, you can put 3 rune taps out in 45 seconds. Probably the best tank at dealing with "1shot" abilities aside from Monks. + Externals on top of that that you can call for.

Bares are pretty good.

Bristling fur is like rune tap without the two charges on top of all the cooldowns we have.

[Tradu]

Quick question that may have been already answered: how long duration should I be getting at least for Breath of Sindragosa to be worth picking? Haven't had much practice yet(best was 40ish seconds on the 3rd boss in Slag Mines heroic without Chains of Ice), but would like some sort of benchmark to aim for.

[Troxism]

Quick question that may have been already answered: how long duration should I be getting at least for Breath of Sindragosa to be worth picking? Haven't had much practice yet(best was 40ish seconds on the 3rd boss in Slag Mines heroic without Chains of Ice), but would like some sort of benchmark to aim for.

About 20-25 seconds PER breath (that means on average) to start being worth the hassle. This isn't that hard to get with any sane amount of MS, but hey thanks Defile for being a piece of shit and Necrotic Plague for being a joke. Above 1 target however it takes longer for it to beat Defile, depends on # of targets and uptimes on them/ticks hit ect. Having said that, if you are just spamming Chains to extend it, it's actually a waste to do so (point of chains is to bridge RNG/range gaps in resource gen, if you are maintaining purely off it's back it's actually a waste, hence the recommendation for a decent amount of MS regardless) and it's actually better in that case to let it drop; it's an issue of needing a certain critical mass of resource gen above which it is worth to cast chains of ice.

[Tradu]

About 20-25 seconds PER breath (that means on average) to start being worth the hassle. This isn't that hard to get with any sane amount of MS, but hey thanks Defile for being a piece of shit and Necrotic Plague for being a joke. Above 1 target however it takes longer for it to beat Defile, depends on # of targets and uptimes on them/ticks hit ect. Having said that, if you are just spamming Chains to extend it, it's actually a waste to do so (point of chains is to bridge RNG/range gaps in resource gen, if you are maintaining purely off it's back it's actually a waste, hence the recommendation for a decent amount of MS regardless) and it's actually better in that case to let it drop; it's an issue of needing a certain critical mass of resource gen above which it is worth to cast chains of ice.

Okay, that sounds doable. And thanks for the logic regarding CoI usage, makes much more sense now(the thought of spamming it did seem pretty weird, so good to get confirmation that that thought was wrong). Sitting on about 1.3k MS atm(only recently started gearing my DK), which is slightly below the recommended amount in the guide, so I guess I know what I need to work on gear-wise, at least.

[Troxism]

Okay, that sounds doable. And thanks for the logic regarding CoI usage, makes much more sense now(the thought of spamming it did seem pretty weird, so good to get confirmation that that thought was wrong). Sitting on about 1.3k MS atm(only recently started gearing my DK), which is slightly below the recommended amount in the guide, so I guess I know what I need to work on gear-wise, at least.

1300 is fine to start, I overestimate in the guide because I assume terrible play. Should always test things like this yourself, there is no recommended value that applies to every person.

It never was spamming CoI and never will be, but stupid people who never actually learned how to play it will always think that, and I guess that includes Blizzard. Literally the last change they should have resorted to (should have just HEAVILY nerfed a few other parts of the spell, but I guess I'll break that down at a later date why Default BoS is stupid and complete cancer design-wise compared to Chains of Sindragosa).

[Ikrekot]

Quick question that may have been already answered: how long duration should I be getting at least for Breath of Sindragosa to be worth picking? Haven't had much practice yet(best was 40ish seconds on the 3rd boss in Slag Mines heroic without Chains of Ice), but would like some sort of benchmark to aim for.

https://sanguinefortitude.wordpress....of-windragosa/

Nice post about Breath and math behind it.

[diachroniko]

About 20-25 seconds PER breath (that means on average) to start being worth the hassle. This isn't that hard to get with any sane amount of MS, but hey thanks Defile for being a piece of shit and Necrotic Plague for being a joke. Above 1 target however it takes longer for it to beat Defile, depends on # of targets and uptimes on them/ticks hit ect. Having said that, if you are just spamming Chains to extend it, it's actually a waste to do so (point of chains is to bridge RNG/range gaps in resource gen, if you are maintaining purely off it's back it's actually a waste, hence the recommendation for a decent amount of MS regardless) and it's actually better in that case to let it drop; it's an issue of needing a certain critical mass of resource gen above which it is worth to cast chains of ice.

Similar question, what kind of haste/MS would one need to reliably (more or less), keep BoS up 100% of the time? Baring range issues and the like ofc.