6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Deleted]

Could anyone tell me which the best trinkets are from heroics?

[Amil]

Could anyone tell me which the best trinkets are from heroics?

I'm rolling with Mote of Corruption and Fires of the Sun.

[Relimash]

Is it just me? or retri is shaping up to be one of the best single target damage dealer this patch content? specially when you get lucky streak with DP+ FV.

On short fights in 5mans yeah, we are super strong. But that's because we ride our CDs to the bank. On actual raid fights next week we won't be on top, but we will be up there. This is the best this spec has felt in a while, number and game play wise.

[Vegasflash]

In case anyone's wondering about the Scabbard of Kyranos change:

Original version: 220 Versatility with 3.06 stat weight is 673.2. The strength use is 2200 for 10 seconds every 90 seconds, so it's got a 1/9 or 11% uptime. .1111 times 2200 is 244ish average strength, times the stat weight of 6.15 = 1503.3. 1503.3 + 673.2 = 2176.5 or so.

Original Scabbard is worth about 2176.5 DPS.

Updated Scabbard: 2200 for 15 seconds every 90 seconds. 15/90 = 1/6, or 16.66% uptime. Times by 2200 to get 366.66 average strength, then times by stat weight of 6.15 to get an even 2255 DPS.

2176.5 DPS before the change is less than 2255 DPS after. Scabbard got a buff for us.

Additional math: The relative stat weights at which strength and versatility would be equal for Scabbard DPS is Strength = 1.8*Versatility (the math for which is at the bottom). Going through all the stat weights given in the OP we find these relations:

High_DP_EmpS: 4.6/1.89 = 2.433
High_DP_FV: 4.63/1.91 = 2.424
High_DP_Sera: 4.63/1.85 = 2.502
High_HA_EmpS: 4.67/1.91 = 2.445
High_HA_FV: 4.57/1.93 = 2.367
High_HA_Sera: 4.62/1.81 = 2.552
High_SW_EmpS: 4.90/1.92 = 2.552
High_SW_FV: 4.69/1.92 = 2.442
High_SW_Sera: 4.79/1.88 = 2.547

T17_DP_EmpS: 5.75/2.70 = 2.129
T17_DP_FV: 6.15/3.06 = 2.009
T17_DP_Sera: 5.89/2.74 = 2.149
T17_HA_EmpS: 5.78/2.77 = 2.086
T17_HA_FV: 6.06/3.02 = 2.006
T17_HA_Sera: 5.86/2.72 = 2.154
T17_SW_EmpS: 6.07/2.80 = 2.167
T17_SW_FV: 6.14/3.05 = 2.013
T17_SW_Sera: 5.89/2.72 = 2.165

As can be plainly seen, all of those are above 1.8 which means the Scabbard change results in more DPS. Based on the descending trend between Highmaul gear versus T17 gear it's likely there will be a time when the original version of the Scabbard would have been better, but that's not happening in T17.

Math for the trinket:

(220*Versatility weight + (10/90)*2200*Strength weight) = ((15/90)*2200*Strength Weight)

Simplify down to (versatility)220x + (strength)244.44y = (strength)366.66y. Subtract 244.44y from both sides to get 220x = 122.22y. Divide both sides by 122.22 to get (strength)y = (versatility)220/122.22 which is 1y = 1.8x. 1 Strength = 1.8 Versatility.

Considering all that, wouldn't it be optimal to just hold onto the 30 wasted seconds of trinket being up before our offensive cooldowns IF we were to use both HA+AW? Or is keeping the trinket constantly on cooldown a better choice?

[Rawrzillasor]

I'm rolling with Mote of Corruption and Fires of the Sun.

mote of corruption (lucky with a socket on mine ) and spores of alacrity for the str bonus. i have not gotten the fires of the sun yet but i think that will be fairly good just lower the burst potential

[Jackielope]

Considering all that, wouldn't it be optimal to just hold onto the 30 wasted seconds of trinket being up before our offensive cooldowns IF we were to use both HA+AW? Or is keeping the trinket constantly on cooldown a better choice?

It'll depend on the fight as well as talent choices. The general rule to go by is if delaying it means you don't get to use it again during the encounter then it's a DPS loss. If, however, you won't be able to get another use in then delaying it to stack with other cooldowns would likely result in more DPS.

[Toejam]

Hey thanks for the response Maegor, that helped a lot.

Just two last questions for the rest of you, when running Emp Seals, we can practiclaly ignore Empowered Divine Storm procs unless its down to less than 4 seconds or when I have a free GCD right?

Also, with Emp Seals you can effectively ignore the buffed Haste point because of the talent?

[Deleted]

So I'm prepping for raids now, and my enchanter alt is getting her secrets ready for big enchants. What weapon enchant is best for when I get my epic weapon? (I assume all of the other enchants will just be Mastery.)

[Deleted]

Hi everyone , could someone tell me if the darkmoon trinket is a must have for raiding or if some blue heroic trinkets are better ?

[Fogyreef]

Given the stat priorities and weight in the op, what is the suggested tool/method for converting that info into a gear shopping list?

[Deleted]

what enchant are we going to use? cant figure out if the 2x multistrike proc outscales the mastery. any thoughts on this yet?

[Gemini Soul]

what enchant are we going to use? cant figure out if the 2x multistrike proc outscales the mastery. any thoughts on this yet?

I can't see it pulling ahead of Mastery enchant, when it procs its not a guaranteed damage increase vs the mastery enc its RNG, while the mastery enc scales with our attunement and is guaranteed steady dmg increase.

[Maegor]

Given the stat priorities and weight in the op, what is the suggested tool/method for converting that info into a gear shopping list?

Multiplication.

Takes the weights, multiply str and secondaries on a piece by their respective weight, get that total. Repeat for all pieces. Highest piece wins.

Take note that stat weights fluctuate and going all out on one stat will decrease its value while raising the value of the others. And haste is its own beast with plateaus.

[Doomedx]

In order of paragraphs:
4)when prepotting with any t75 talent burst at the beginning (meaning pop it all). Don't wait for 5 hp. So you should prepot>pull>aw>trinkets+ES>rotation

i guess u should pre-pot > es > aw > how

cuz ES is dot and it is not snapshoting as it was on mop ?

[Deleted]

I can't see it pulling ahead of Mastery enchant, when it procs its not a guaranteed damage increase vs the mastery enc its RNG, while the mastery enc scales with our attunement and is guaranteed steady dmg increase.

Well yea but what if multistrike enchant often procs 2 times giving us 1000 multistrike and if the chance of that happening is quite high/equal to the mastery proc it might pull ahead. thats what i cant figure out

[Rathimis]

i guess u should pre-pot > es > aw > how

cuz ES is dot and it is not snapshoting as it was on mop ?

That's correct.

[Duryea]

So im wondering about the darkmoon card... is it worth getting?

[Deleted]

So im wondering about the darkmoon card... is it worth getting?

Considering the 'BiS' trinket from Highmaul is the same as the DMC with higher stats, Yes.

[MBDTF]

Considering the 'BiS' trinket from Highmaul is the same as the DMC with higher stats, Yes.

Probably not, chances are we'll end up using the passive base/secondary trinket and scabbard as far as Highmaul is concerned.

[Deleted]

So, I was messing around and doing heroics to try and get some mastery gear, and I noticed something with the trinkets. I'm currently wielding the decent http://www.wowhead.com/item=114430 and the Draenor Alchemy stone. It give a big chunk of haste on proc and decent strength. When I was running Everbloom, I got Spores of Alacrity with a prismatic slot. http://www.wowhead.com/item=110014. Thing is, the spores seem significantly worse, apart from a paltry boost in haste. Is there something I'm missing with the tooltip? Should I stick with the bonds of fury?