6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Deleted]

So on my realm changes aren't active yet. Because my DS is still 65% Wep DMG and my TV still 200% Wep DMG. But I don't understand this. My realm was restarded this morning. O.o But I don't think that 20% dmg increase means "Deals 65% Holy damage to all enemies within 8 yards." to "Deals 85% Holy damage to all enemies within 8 yards. "

[Serani]

So on my realm changes aren't active yet. Because my DS is still 65% Wep DMG and my TV still 200% Wep DMG. But I don't understand this. My realm was restarded this morning. O.o But I don't think that 20% dmg increase means "Deals 65% Holy damage to all enemies within 8 yards." to "Deals 85% Holy damage to all enemies within 8 yards. "

Tooltip updates very rarely happen at the same time a fix goes in.

[Deleted]

Oh I'm so dumb. The only magic is in Armor value of bosses, so DS is better cause it's only Holy damage.

[Deleted]

In SoO EDS being prioritized is a slight gain (less than .5% overall dps), i haven't really looked to much into that though. I've been more focused on level 100 talent interactions. That's why it isn't reflected in that post.

So, i found what was wrong with my formulation.

I considered that there was a full dpe loss if ds proc was not used before TV5, which is incorrect.

Full dpe loss only occurs when we can't use ds proc before expiration (we could assume that we won't never observe this case in pve).

Currently, there is only few chance that ds proc could be refreshed if we use TV5.

So, some new calcula lead me to conclude that you were right and both formulation and simulation conclude to the same thing : we will only use ds proc before TV5 in presence of final verdict buff.

[Schnuttz]

Anyone have a clcret rotation for current, I am currently using tv5 how tvaw cs j ds_4t16 tv4 exo tv3

[Prometheous]

Anyone have a clcret rotation for current, I am currently using tv5 how tvaw cs j ds_4t16 tv4 exo tv3

Can we please keep the clcret questions in the clcret thread? Im sick of them.

From what I've noticed EDS tickles compared to its old form, which is sad. I'd rather have FV's DS empower hit harder than have it built into our spec.

[nukias]

Can we please keep the clcret questions in the clcret thread? Im sick of them.

From what I've noticed EDS tickles compared to its old form, which is sad. I'd rather have FV's DS empower hit harder than have it built into our spec.

Yeah, I thought it was a bit silly to have it bumped up with a proc and then have it bumped up again with another proc. The value of EDS is lower than CS, so you basically have to pray to RNGesus that you have the procs align properly.

[Solsacra]

Sort of. There is some strange weights with haste around that mark, im trying to isolate exactly whats causing such an abrupt change, this, more often than not only occurs with seraphim talented. Which makes more sense really, it does provide predictable guaranteed intervals of holy power generation for optimal uptime. So for now, shelve the whole 15% haste thing until i really have an idea of what's going on.

Definitely a local haste plateau. Hastes value dips from roughly 15 to 17.5% then jumps again. This happens with Seraphim and any of the Tier 75's talented, virtually non existent with Empowered Seals/Final Verdict. Fairly consistent across a 660 +30/-30 item level range too. Just affirms we need to maintain a relative stat budget on our gear despite hastes erratic nature, Something to keep an eye on. Should one choose to not pursue this point by ignoring reforge plotting recommendations you likely won't notice and large variances, despite the theoretical gain.

[Deleted]

What are the stat prio for highmaul Raid? are they changing with the t17-set prio? solsacra you say for highmaul empS are "the best" 100er talent choice , is there the 15% important ? i want to know if there are BiS stats on the gear or if i can wear any highmaul gear because we need ALL stats and all important gear come with blackrock foundry?!

[Solsacra]

Fortunately there is a limited selection of gear to choose from in highmaul so getting what you need shouldn't be hard. As for the stat priority, it is in the OP.

[Chris Singer]

How is Seal scaling looking? I was under the impression that SoR is superior for 2+ targets, but I'm getting sim results for SoR @ 3 w/ T17M, with Censure cleaving still being superior @ 2 targets. The resulting DPS seems to contradict with the damage breakdown between sims though, with SoR's total damage done and DPS out-performing SoT+Censure over the same amount of time.

Little bit confusing.

[Solsacra]

How is Seal scaling looking? I was under the impression that SoR is superior for 2+ targets, but I'm getting sim results for SoR @ 3 w/ T17M, with Censure cleaving still being superior @ 2 targets. The resulting DPS seems to contradict with the damage breakdown between sims though, with SoR's total damage done and DPS out-performing SoT+Censure over the same amount of time.

Little bit confusing.

Without having results in front of me to compare, my first thought would be Glyph of Double Jeopardy.

[Chris Singer]

With or without GoDJ, the results are about the same. Could it be an error somewhere in the profiles themselves?

[Solsacra]

Theck and I are looking into it. He might have a better idea what's causing it, but its definitely related to the action list, and not the seals themselves.

problem solved, bad logical operator(s). Some conditions related to empowered seals that shouldn't have been executed outside of the talent. Empowered seals is such a pain in the ass.

[nes4u]

What would it be our best talents / setup to do heroic dungeons and how is ret doing on challenge modes?, i suspect that seraphin will shine there right?

[Solsacra]

I would think Ret would be amazing for challenge modes, i can't really say for sure though. it's not something i bothered to test. Seraphim would likely be the best bet, or Final Verdict, depends how you choose to handle said CM's. For basic heroic dungeon gearing, it probably just boils down to personal preference.

[Maegor]

Great job on the OP. Thanks for the work that went into creating it Solsa.

[Holdor69]

At how much haste should i be aiming when i hit 100?

[Deleted]

At how much haste should i be aiming when i hit 100?

Apparently we want 15% including raid buffs. Solsacra posted a BiS list which takes us to about 9.4% in mythic gear.

[Fredzilla]

Definitely a local haste plateau. Hastes value dips from roughly 15 to 17.5% then jumps again. This happens with Seraphim and any of the Tier 75's talented, virtually non existent with Empowered Seals/Final Verdict.

Does that mean we don't want to bother getting 15% haste with EmpS/FV, or am I reading this wrong?