6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[TomatoBisque]

i am reading the summon stone guide now (playing retri for the first time for real) and i have a problem understanding some priorities

- why do i prio judgment over exorcism (no 4T17? when i look at my skada, exo does more dmg (on average and maximum hits)
- when i am at 4 holy power an divine purpose proccs again and again i just spam final verdict or with the divine crusader buff active divine storm? or do i put a hammer of wrath/crusader strike in to reach 5 holy power?
- it states that i should wait for crusader strike when its cooldown is within 2 GCDs. where can i measure my GCD? iss there a rule of thumb like "wait for crusader strike when there are 1,5 seconds left on the cooldown"?

-Judgment procs your seal as mentioned above, which makes it higher.
-If HoW or CS are off cd and you have 4HP use them (unless you're under wings or execute, then this only applies to HoW)
-GCD (global cooldown) is the time you have to wait to use another ability after using one, you can see it after using an ability. It's 1.5s modified by Haste (it will be equal to whatever Flash of Light's cast time is for ease of reference). Waiting 2 GCDs for Crusader Strike sounds wrong, my understanding is you don't want to delay it more than like 0.2 seconds. This only means that if, say, Judgment is up, but Crusader Strike will be up in a fraction of a second, wait for it and use it instead.

[anaxie]

For those that may have something cogent to add, i've once again created another feedback thread on the beta forums to try and bring to light some of the problems we currently face and some of the issues currently present in 6.2.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17083949404

That said, with 6.2 on the horizon, the time is fast approaching for this thread to meet it's end. It's grown to a completely crazy size, 264 pages, over 5275 posts, as of this posting. This won't really function well with keeping 6.2 information relevant and accessible for newcomers so a new thread will likely be created here or on Summonstone.

I'd do summon stone I'm about done with this zealous forum.

[Solsacra]

i am reading the summon stone guide now (playing retri for the first time for real) and i have a problem understanding some priorities

- why do i prio judgment over exorcism (no 4T17? when i look at my skada, exo does more dmg (on average and maximum hits)
- when i am at 4 holy power an divine purpose proccs again and again i just spam final verdict or with the divine crusader buff active divine storm? or do i put a hammer of wrath/crusader strike in to reach 5 holy power?
- it states that i should wait for crusader strike when its cooldown is within 2 GCDs. where can i measure my GCD? iss there a rule of thumb like "wait for crusader strike when there are 1,5 seconds left on the cooldown"?

1)Judgment deals seal damage, and has a much shorter cooldown which also happens to be consistant. Not anywhere from 1-15 seconds as is Exorcisms case.

2)You'll always want to cap your holy power if you find yourself in this scenario, so yes, fight the urge to burn the procs. Use HoW, CS and J to cap, then go to town.

Trinket procs, like Screaming Spirits from HoSS can change this. If you've any amount of procs up and SS has less than 5 seconds left on its duration, burn them before it falls off. The damage this trinket provides for these scenarios is absolutely ridiculous.

3)This is done to prevent cooldown clash with Crusader Strike. For instance, assume this scenario:
We are currently at two holy power, we use CS to reach three, then judgement to reach four. Traditional logic would dictate that we would use Exorcism to reach five (as it is the only ability available), then subsequently use TV/FV @ 5. Pushing back CS's usage by one GCD in the process. However, this is where that logic would help us. Since we're at four and CS is available after the next global, we would TV/FV at 4, then CS > J again to reach three. freeing up two holy power sectors to be filled for any eventuality, while simultaneously not clipping CS or J. This doesn't apply to Execute or CD's as our rotation goes John Fucking Madden (especially with EmpS), just try and keep up with the quickly changing priority.

A GCD is the time you have to wait before using a second ability, and yes, at zero haste 1.5 seconds is an accurate measurement. This means you can use two abilities in between CS uses. CS - filler - filler - CS - filler - filler - CS , etc

[anaxie]

1)Judgment deals seal damage, and has a much shorter cooldown which also happens to be consistant. Not anywhere from 1-15 seconds as is Exorcisms case.

2)You'll always want to cap your holy power if you find yourself in this scenario, so yes, fight the urge to burn the procs. Use HoW, CS and J to cap, then go to town.

Trinket procs, like Screaming Spirits from HoSS can change this. If you've any amount of procs up and SS has less than 5 seconds left on its duration, burn them before it falls off. The damage this trinket provides for these scenarios is absolutely ridiculous.

3)This is done to prevent cooldown clash with Crusader Strike. For instance, assume this scenario:
We are currently at two holy power, we use CS to reach three, then judgement to reach four. Traditional logic would dictate that we would use Exorcism to reach five (as it is the only ability available), then subsequently use TV/FV @ 5. Pushing back CS's usage by one GCD in the process. However, this is where that logic would help us. Since we're at four and CS is available after the next global, we would TV/FV at 4, then CS > J again to reach three. freeing up two holy power sectors to be filled for any eventuality, while simultaneously not clipping CS or J. This doesn't apply to Execute or CD's as our rotation goes John Fucking Madden (especially with EmpS), just try and keep up with the quickly changing priority.

A GCD is the time you have to wait before using a second ability, and yes, at zero haste 1.5 seconds is an accurate measurement. This means you can use two abilities in between CS uses. CS - filler - filler - CS - filler - filler - CS , etc

I nearly mentioned that ECD of judgment > seal damage also.

[siccora]

1)Judgment deals ...

thank you very much. helps me alot.

or could just use Hekili right? seems legit.

[Elkas]

For those that may have something cogent to add, i've once again created another feedback thread on the beta forums to try and bring to light some of the problems we currently face and some of the issues currently present in 6.2.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17083949404

That said, with 6.2 on the horizon, the time is fast approaching for this thread to meet it's end. It's grown to a completely crazy size, 264 pages, over 5275 posts, as of this posting. This won't really function well with keeping 6.2 information relevant and accessible for newcomers so a new thread will likely be created here or on Summonstone.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14381159441

EU version

[Urioh]

could just use Hekili right? seems legit.

You said you are learning to play Ret for the first time. I don't really see anything wrong with using it to get the basic priority down. Id recommend not using it beyond that though.

[siccora]

You said you are learning to play Ret for the first time. I don't really see anything wrong with using it to get the basic priority down. Id recommend not using it beyond that though.

hmm really? i mean i got my weak aura and stuff down because i am used to play windwalker. but i think that the add on is always correct with the next button i have to press. but if you say that you would not recommend it, maybe i shouldn't get used to it.

[Deleted]

hmm really? i mean i got my weak aura and stuff down because i am used to play windwalker. but i think that the add on is always correct with the next button i have to press. but if you say that you would not recommend it, maybe i shouldn't get used to it.

He says he doesn't recommend it without showing what he does instead. There's a lot of elitism about addons, especially from poorer quality players. Everyone has something to show when abilities are coming off cooldown, procs available, etc. The only advice I'd make is never take any advice from anyone who isn't willing to show you a video of their own play during progress.

[anaxie]

He says he doesn't recommend it without showing what he does instead. There's a lot of elitism about addons, especially from poorer quality players. Everyone has something to show when abilities are coming off cooldown, procs available, etc. The only advice I'd make is never take any advice from anyone who isn't willing to show you a video of their own play during progress.

We all make dem videos

[Deleted]

We all make dem videos

Didn't think you were even playing progress, much less recording it.

[ProphetNoata]

I still use clcinfo lol. Ive just gotten so used to it and i dont want to transfer over to weakauras

[siccora]

ok so i played around with the add on for a few hours now on a dummy and lfr bosses with the summon stone prio list for "Final Verdict Priority" on the other screen.

i only got 1 question left. when i look at the list there is no action for "cast divine storm only with the final verdict multiplier active". it always states that i cast divine storm with final verdict multiplier and the divine crusader buff up. but why does the add on tell me to cast divine storm when only the final verdict buff is up and there is only one dummy i am hitting?

this will be my last question for now. i think i got the rotation down now i have to build some muscle memory

[Curulan]

If you're using the target dummy in your garrison (or other dummies where at least two are within 8 yards of each other), keep in mind that Hekili might be registering damage on more than one target. If you have the FV buff, then the priority list favors using DS+FV when 2+ targets are in range.

[siccora]

shoot...so i thought 2+ means 3,4,5 or more targets and not 2 and more. sorry. my bad.

[anaxie]

Didn't think you were even playing progress, much less recording it.

Progress has been over for a month and I don't

[Urioh]

He says he doesn't recommend it without showing what he does instead. There's a lot of elitism about addons, especially from poorer quality players. Everyone has something to show when abilities are coming off cooldown, procs available, etc. The only advice I'd make is never take any advice from anyone who isn't willing to show you a video of their own play during progress.

I get you use clcret that's .... nice. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings or be "elitist". All I said was I don't recommend using it beyond getting the basics down. I wasn't saying the addon is trash or people who use it give the class a bad rep. Sure some people have used Clcret to great success. But in most cases those types of addons hurt newer players more than they help them in the long run.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I get you use clcret that's .... nice. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings or be "elitist". All I said was I don't recommend using it beyond getting the basics down. I wasn't saying the addon is trash or people who use it give the class a bad rep. Sure some people have used Clcret to great success. But in most cases those types of addons hurt newer players more than they help them in the long run.

CLC is a tool, just like Weak Auras, Knives and Hammers. Used properly they are helpful for most, used badly they do more harm than good. That's the case of all tools, 'you' not liking a tool is one thing- saying it's bad is wrong.

[Butosai]

CLC is a tool, just like Weak Auras, Knives and Hammers. Used properly they are helpful for most, used badly they do more harm than good. That's the case of all tools, 'you' not liking a tool is one thing- saying it's bad is wrong.

I've always hated clc but it's not going to hurt your DPS, just your survivability until you get very comfortable with it.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I've always hated clc but it's not going to hurt your DPS, just your survivability until you get very comfortable with it.

Any addon or UI element you have can do that- it's a matter of knowing how to use the tools at your disposal.
Either your UI/Addons are the tools, or you are. Simple as that.

- - - Updated - - -

Addons like CLCRet aren't hugely different from setting up WeakAuras to track the cooldown of CS/Judgement/Exo/Hammer of Wrath

I could very easily set Weak Auras to do what CLC does- does that make Weak Auras a bad addon? No.