[GUIDE] Fury of Fistfire: Windwalking in [6.2]

[Deleted]

Also versatility might tiny bit better than crit. Depends from your gear and should sim it out yourself.

Granted that crit and versatility switch places depending your gear and the difference is tiny at best.

[Perath]

Heya fellow Windwalkers

I have a question, regarding the usage of SEF in Highmaul.

My guild recently started getting into heroic Highmaul (past Kargath), starting with Tectus, which we killed fairly easily. I wasn't there for the first kill, but I was there for the second kill. After the kill I was called out for using SEF on one of the shards, after the first split. They basically told me I was just "cheesing dps" and giving the shard free energy. Now, I know the shards gain more energy regen the lower their health is, but I've always had the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal and the extra dps I would be gaining from using SEF would still be worth it.

My question to all of you is this: Do you consider using SEF on the shard after the first split "cheesing dps" if your guild kills them one at a time? Considering I've been doing it for weeks on normal, with absolutely no issues and the fact that we still killed him pretty easily, I just can't see it that way personally...

[Deleted]

Heya fellow Windwalkers

I have a question, regarding the usage of SEF in Highmaul.

My guild recently started getting into heroic Highmaul (past Kargath), starting with Tectus, which we killed fairly easily. I wasn't there for the first kill, but I was there for the second kill. After the kill I was called out for using SEF on one of the shards, after the first split. They basically told me I was just "cheesing dps" and giving the shard free energy. Now, I know the shards gain more energy regen the lower their health is, but I've always had the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal and the extra dps I would be gaining from using SEF would still be worth it.

My question to all of you is this: Do you consider using SEF on the shard after the first split "cheesing dps" if your guild kills them one at a time? Considering I've been doing it for weeks on normal, with absolutely no issues and the fact that we still killed him pretty easily, I just can't see it that way personally...

that shouldnt be that much of a problem in heroic content lol
if u push the HP of the 2nd shard to the AOE-phase that could be a problem but i doubt u can do that. otherwise it should be a good thing because u shorten the length of the fight a bit. in my opinion it's very silly to argue about "cheesing dps" in heroic at all :d if u don't go crazy on adds which explode from koragh or imp, everything should be fine ^^

[rijn dael]

Heya fellow Windwalkers

I have a question, regarding the usage of SEF in Highmaul.

My guild recently started getting into heroic Highmaul (past Kargath), starting with Tectus, which we killed fairly easily. I wasn't there for the first kill, but I was there for the second kill. After the kill I was called out for using SEF on one of the shards, after the first split. They basically told me I was just "cheesing dps" and giving the shard free energy. Now, I know the shards gain more energy regen the lower their health is, but I've always had the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal and the extra dps I would be gaining from using SEF would still be worth it.

My question to all of you is this: Do you consider using SEF on the shard after the first split "cheesing dps" if your guild kills them one at a time? Considering I've been doing it for weeks on normal, with absolutely no issues and the fact that we still killed him pretty easily, I just can't see it that way personally...

It's pretty simple, if you can do more useful damage by SEF'ing, you should be SEF'ing. The energy gain is not really a valid argument, because the mechanic is trivial, and alone you won't be doing enough to make it an issue anyway. If you have a raid full of cleave classes pushing it so low you could kill both at the same time, you should try killing both, good practice the mythic strat :-)

There are a few caveats where you wouldn't SEF
-X must die asap, and nothing else matters (fracture or whatever is being cast).
-ignoring units you don't want to die (eg koragh/imp small adds that explode when killed)
-units you won't kill (eg the very last big add on brackenspore)

Otherwise, if a target exists that you can sef, you should be SEF'ing it. There may be a priority, but you should still be keeping SEF on max units.

eg, on N/H tectus, you often kill one medium add, the 4 baby adds that spawn, and then the other medium add, followed by its four baby adds - there isn't much point SEF'ing the medium add when you have available baby add targets, but if you only have two baby adds left alive, I would absolutely be SEF'ing the medium with your last clone.

[Perath]

It's pretty simple, if you can do more useful damage by SEF'ing, you should be SEF'ing. The energy gain is not really a valid argument, because the mechanic is trivial, and alone you won't be doing enough to make it an issue anyway. If you have a raid full of cleave classes pushing it so low you could kill both at the same time, you should try killing both, good practice the mythic strat :-)

There are a few caveats where you wouldn't SEF
-X must die asap, and nothing else matters (fracture or whatever is being cast).
-ignoring units you don't want to die (eg koragh/imp small adds that explode when killed)
-units you won't kill (eg the very last big add on brackenspore)

Otherwise, if a target exists that you can sef, you should be SEF'ing it. There may be a priority, but you should still be keeping SEF on max units.

eg, on N/H tectus, you often kill one medium add, the 4 baby adds that spawn, and then the other medium add, followed by its four baby adds - there isn't much point SEF'ing the medium add when you have available baby add targets, but if you only have two baby adds left alive, I would absolutely be SEF'ing the medium with your last clone.

That's what I thought, thanks for the answer, maybe I can use this to talk some sense into them for next time. :P

[Deleted]

There are a few caveats where you wouldn't SEF
-units you won't kill (eg the very last big add on brackenspore)

I'm currently progressing on brackenspore mythic and i feel like not using SEF while one of the big adds is up, is more save because sometimes the add lives pretty long and kills our tanks. unfortunately i lose a lot of DPS doing so. i'm pretty unsure what's better. this could be also a problem of our weak dps players which i'm trying to compensate.

how do u and others proceed in this scenario?

[Deleted]

I'm currently progressing on brackenspore mythic and i feel like not using SEF while one of the big adds is up, is more save because sometimes the add lives pretty long and kills our tanks. unfortunately i lose a lot of DPS doing so. i'm pretty unsure what's better. this could be also a problem of our weak dps players which i'm trying to compensate.

how do u and others proceed in this scenario?

That situation is ideal for SEF. Just put your clone on Brackenspore himself and focus the add

[Tradu]

Heya fellow Windwalkers

I have a question, regarding the usage of SEF in Highmaul.

My guild recently started getting into heroic Highmaul (past Kargath), starting with Tectus, which we killed fairly easily. I wasn't there for the first kill, but I was there for the second kill. After the kill I was called out for using SEF on one of the shards, after the first split. They basically told me I was just "cheesing dps" and giving the shard free energy. Now, I know the shards gain more energy regen the lower their health is, but I've always had the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal and the extra dps I would be gaining from using SEF would still be worth it.

My question to all of you is this: Do you consider using SEF on the shard after the first split "cheesing dps" if your guild kills them one at a time? Considering I've been doing it for weeks on normal, with absolutely no issues and the fact that we still killed him pretty easily, I just can't see it that way personally...

That's not cheesing, that's dealing with their stacking buff. People with no idea about Windwalker should just stop commenting on SEF usage, honestly.

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That situation is ideal for SEF. Just put your clone on Brackenspore himself and focus the add

This is what I do as well(only on heroic so far, though, only 1/7M cos we're bad). SEF the boss, smack the add. Could SEF the Spore Shooters too. This way you can easily interrupt Decay without focus shenanigans as well. If the add is dying too slowly, the other DPS need to step up rather than you sacrificing a ton of DPS just to compensate. Keep in mind that Touch of Death's cooldown lines up perfectly with the big adds as well, so that adds another 350k or so damage every 1.5 min.

[Babylonius]

Heya fellow Windwalkers

I have a question, regarding the usage of SEF in Highmaul.

My guild recently started getting into heroic Highmaul (past Kargath), starting with Tectus, which we killed fairly easily. I wasn't there for the first kill, but I was there for the second kill. After the kill I was called out for using SEF on one of the shards, after the first split. They basically told me I was just "cheesing dps" and giving the shard free energy. Now, I know the shards gain more energy regen the lower their health is, but I've always had the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal and the extra dps I would be gaining from using SEF would still be worth it.

My question to all of you is this: Do you consider using SEF on the shard after the first split "cheesing dps" if your guild kills them one at a time? Considering I've been doing it for weeks on normal, with absolutely no issues and the fact that we still killed him pretty easily, I just can't see it that way personally...

What most people are ignoring is that your guild is saying they want to kill them one at a time. So, while the DPS on the 2nd target isn't wasted, you'll have to kill it eventually, due to the energy mechanic you would be making it more difficult for the raid. It's not "cheesing" in the typical sense of meaningless dps, but with your strat it makes it slightly more difficult than your raid leaders would like it.

And ignore anyone saying that it shouldn't matterr because it's "just" heroic, if your guild is progressing on it then it should be thought of the same way that Mythic would be if you were progressing on that. However when you get to Mythic then you'll definitely want to use SEF there.

[Kibster]

I'm currently progressing on brackenspore mythic and i feel like not using SEF while one of the big adds is up, is more save because sometimes the add lives pretty long and kills our tanks. unfortunately i lose a lot of DPS doing so. i'm pretty unsure what's better. this could be also a problem of our weak dps players which i'm trying to compensate.

how do u and others proceed in this scenario?

If the fight could last forever, then sacrificing well over 40% of your own damage to do less than 30% more to the most relevant add could be feasible. But since time is a real issue in the fight, you would be doing your raid a huge disservice by not using SEF.

[Tradu]

What most people are ignoring is that your guild is saying they want to kill them one at a time. So, while the DPS on the 2nd target isn't wasted, you'll have to kill it eventually, due to the energy mechanic you would be making it more difficult for the raid. It's not "cheesing" in the typical sense of meaningless dps, but with your strat it makes it slightly more difficult than your raid leaders would like it.

And ignore anyone saying that it shouldn't matterr because it's "just" heroic, if your guild is progressing on it then it should be thought of the same way that Mythic would be if you were progressing on that. However when you get to Mythic then you'll definitely want to use SEF there.

The thing is that if they just ignore the 2nd one, it gets stacks of whatever it's called and does more damage. So it's really a case of either more frequent, weak Upheavals or less frequent, harder hitting Upheavals. So it's not cheesing at all, and it doesn't necessarily increase the damage the "boss" does either, it just depends on how they would like the fight to be dealt with healing-wise.
Also, on normal/heroic, the intended tactic is different than mythic(normal/heroic you're intended to do 1 at a time, LFR/mythic you're supposed to AoE zerg all the things) which is also something to keep in mind(and might be why people who are used to doing mythic forget about the stacking buff if they don't get damaged enough)

[Deleted]

What most people are ignoring is that your guild is saying they want to kill them one at a time. So, while the DPS on the 2nd target isn't wasted, you'll have to kill it eventually, due to the energy mechanic you would be making it more difficult for the raid. It's not "cheesing" in the typical sense of meaningless dps, but with your strat it makes it slightly more difficult than your raid leaders would like it.

And ignore anyone saying that it shouldn't matterr because it's "just" heroic, if your guild is progressing on it then it should be thought of the same way that Mythic would be if you were progressing on that. However when you get to Mythic then you'll definitely want to use SEF there.

To echo what Drathos said: We tried it in hc to completely ignore the second boss. The upheaval then came with so many stacks, that it was more or less impossible to keep the raid alive during it. Some damage to it is needed, even if you want to kill one after the other.

[Perath]

What most people are ignoring is that your guild is saying they want to kill them one at a time. So, while the DPS on the 2nd target isn't wasted, you'll have to kill it eventually, due to the energy mechanic you would be making it more difficult for the raid. It's not "cheesing" in the typical sense of meaningless dps, but with your strat it makes it slightly more difficult than your raid leaders would like it.

And ignore anyone saying that it shouldn't matterr because it's "just" heroic, if your guild is progressing on it then it should be thought of the same way that Mythic would be if you were progressing on that. However when you get to Mythic then you'll definitely want to use SEF there.

While I get this, and if they insist I don't do it, I'll obviously follow the raid leaders. The main issue I have is the fact that we still killed him in 2 attempts, with the only deaths being due to silly crystaline barrage failures and earthen pillar. We even shaved a full minute off of the fight length from the first kill I wasn't there on, which meant less healing overall was needed to complete the fight.

Now I'm not saying that the extra dps I did on the secondary shard made that much of a difference (it's probably more the extra DPS I bring on the motes, as we have no real "AOE" classes / specs in the current team), but I'm sure it did matter somewhat.

@Forsta, @Drathos

I think the raid leaders know about that , as we're not completely ignoring the second one. We still tank em together and cleave off of the first one, but seeing as I think of SEF as my "passive cleave" I was really surprised when I was called out. Either way, I'll have to chat with the leaders and see if I can convince them. It's not like it's that big of a deal if I can't, though. :P

[Tryvia]

There is a BRF BiS List?

[rijn dael]

I think the raid leaders know about that , as we're not completely ignoring the second one. We still tank em together and cleave off of the first one, but seeing as I think of SEF as my "passive cleave" I was really surprised when I was called out. Either way, I'll have to chat with the leaders and see if I can convince them. It's not like it's that big of a deal if I can't, though. :P

Think of it this way, if they are tanked together, you do 70% to one, 70% to the other, and then have cross-cleave on top of that from CX/FoF hitting both which pushes it even further towards zero-loss. Add it ToD on the first one to die, and I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't able to top damage done to it, while dpsing both.

[Highmitsu]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...95529447895041

Tiger palm buff confirmed as bug.

[Fraky]

Hey,

I have a quick question about the current single target stats priority. In this thread Hinalover mentioned that after the haste buff the stats prio would change to multistrike>haste>versatility=crit>>>>mastery. But if you look in the simulations and look up the gear, they don't rate haste that highly and pick items with the old stats prio in mind.
An example would be Conductor's Multi-Pocket Girdle with Crit/Multistrike instead of Girdle of Unconquered Glory with Haste/Multistrike.

What should I trust now? Is the haste buff some weeks ago not that significant as previously predicted? Or is the current simulation gear list not the BIS we could have?

thanks for the replys

[Babylonius]

Hey,

I have a quick question about the current single target stats priority. In this thread Hinalover mentioned that after the haste buff the stats prio would change to multistrike>haste>versatility=crit>>>>mastery. But if you look in the simulations and look up the gear, they don't rate haste that highly and pick items with the old stats prio in mind.
An example would be Conductor's Multi-Pocket Girdle with Crit/Multistrike instead of Girdle of Unconquered Glory with Haste/Multistrike.

What should I trust now? Is the haste buff some weeks ago not that significant as previously predicted? Or is the current simulation gear list not the BIS we could have?

thanks for the replys

The current simulations that push Haste behind MS assume you have the 4pc tier bonus which is what moves haste into its 2nd place position. If you don't have the tier bonus then haste go back below vers/crit.

[Moople]

I really didn't see a confirmation in the thread or not, but with the buffs to Hurricane Strike does it make it viable over Serenity, or is Serenity still going to be the way to go for ST fights?

[Babylonius]

I really didn't see a confirmation in the thread or not, but with the buffs to Hurricane Strike does it make it viable over Serenity, or is Serenity still going to be the way to go for ST fights?

The buff was not enough to make it viable over Serenity. It closed the gap, but didnt overtake it.