1. #2441
    Scarab Lord Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Alright. Second question, can anyone create for me a macro where by pressing the macro, ZP would be casted onto a target that is 10 yards away from me. Is such a thing possible? Or can it only be a macro where specific targets (where I have to physically write their names down on the macro page itself) are given the ZP target (from this target, to this target,a and so forth).

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Just found one.

    #showtooltip zen sphere
    /targetfriendplayer
    /cast [help][exists] zen sphere
    /targetlasttarget [help]

    Thanks fellers.
    Last edited by Kickbuttmario; 2015-04-17 at 05:38 AM.

  2. #2442
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbuttmario View Post
    Alright. Second question, can anyone create for me a macro where by pressing the macro, ZP would be casted onto a target that is 10 yards away from me. Is such a thing possible? Or can it only be a macro where specific targets (where I have to physically write their names down on the macro page itself) are given the ZP target (from this target, to this target,a and so forth).

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Just found one.

    #showtooltip zen sphere
    /targetfriendplayer
    /cast [help][exists] zen sphere
    /targetlasttarget [help]

    Thanks fellers.
    I would really recommend using 2 macros. One for selfcasting and one for focuscasting(and set focus to either a tank or a reliable melee), and then alternating between hitting the 2. With your macro, I'm pretty sure you'd risk overwriting spheres and losing out on the explosion.
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  3. #2443
    Day 4 : I still do not understand anything from PTR update

  4. #2444
    Deleted
    WW monks are still capable of doing damage?! Must nerf harder.

  5. #2445
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Compost View Post
    WW monks are still capable of doing damage?! Must nerf harder.
    More like "Woops, accidentally buffed them in our attempt to make mastery not worthless. Lets just nerf them again instead, at least we know how to do that"
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  6. #2446
    I am 100% ok with a 3-4% nerf since we are on the high end on ST and we are insane when we get to use SEF but I just don't understand how they see the need to nerf us before mages. With Arcane and Fire being the 1st and 2nd highest ST spec. Then they stomp us on quick AOE like thogar and are right behind us on fights like maidens. I guess there is going to be a nerf to all casters with the removal of fox but I just wish they would explain their thinking with some of these changes sometimes.

  7. #2447
    Scarab Lord Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    I would really recommend using 2 macros. One for selfcasting and one for focuscasting(and set focus to either a tank or a reliable melee), and then alternating between hitting the 2. With your macro, I'm pretty sure you'd risk overwriting spheres and losing out on the explosion.
    I have a weakaura to watch if I have the ZP buff on myself and only myself, so its cool.

  8. #2448
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalaman23 View Post
    I am 100% ok with a 3-4% nerf since we are on the high end on ST.
    what are you smoking mate?
    Oregorger - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...6&difficulty=4
    Kromog - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&difficulty=4
    Blackhand - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...4&difficulty=4

    we are middle of the pack as much as you can get.
    only on grull we can are not outclassed by everyone. but we also don't really give anything more than anyone, and we have no utility abilities.

    so, are you sure you are 100% okay with a nerf?

  9. #2449
    Well we are the second highest melee on backhand and 4th and 5th melee's on the other two fights. I would also like to point out that kromog has a burst AOE phase, something we are very week at.

  10. #2450
    Quote Originally Posted by Notter View Post
    what are you smoking mate?
    Oregorger - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...6&difficulty=4
    Kromog - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&difficulty=4
    Blackhand - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...4&difficulty=4

    we are middle of the pack as much as you can get.
    only on grull we can are not outclassed by everyone. but we also don't really give anything more than anyone, and we have no utility abilities.

    so, are you sure you are 100% okay with a nerf?
    Not to mention gruul is the easiest fight in the instance, by a mile. Its not quite "hit a training dummy for 6 minutes, profit" but its close

  11. #2451
    Quote Originally Posted by Notter View Post
    what are you smoking mate?
    Oregorger - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...6&difficulty=4
    Kromog - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&difficulty=4
    Blackhand - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...4&difficulty=4

    we are middle of the pack as much as you can get.
    only on grull we can are not outclassed by everyone. but we also don't really give anything more than anyone, and we have no utility abilities.

    so, are you sure you are 100% okay with a nerf?
    None of those are ST? On Ore you get to use SEF and you can solo 4 boxes by yourself if you set it up with your guild. Kromog the only damage that matters is on the pillars and I can't think of another class that can be hitting all 3 at the same time. And again, on Blackhand you can hit Demos with SEF to hit 50k+. I don't think we get outclassed by everyone we are the best melee on half the fights in BRF obviously i won't know how good we will be in the fights for 6.2 but right now yea I am fine with a 3-4% nerf I just don't know why mages aren't being touched either

  12. #2452
    Herald of the Titans Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lalaman23 View Post
    None of those are ST? On Ore you get to use SEF and you can solo 4 boxes by yourself if you set it up with your guild. Kromog the only damage that matters is on the pillars and I can't think of another class that can be hitting all 3 at the same time. And again, on Blackhand you can hit Demos with SEF to hit 50k+. I don't think we get outclassed by everyone we are the best melee on half the fights in BRF obviously i won't know how good we will be in the fights for 6.2 but right now yea I am fine with a 3-4% nerf I just don't know why mages aren't being touched either
    So you're saying those are fights that WW can get extra damage on other things, so they do more damage than if they were just ST, yet they are in the middle of the pack for these fights. Shouldn't that mean that WW damage is below these numbers, so lower than middle of the pack if you don't use these extra "padding" techniques?
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  13. #2453
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    So you're saying those are fights that WW can get extra damage on other things, so they do more damage than if they were just ST, yet they are in the middle of the pack for these fights. Shouldn't that mean that WW damage is below these numbers, so lower than middle of the pack if you don't use these extra "padding" techniques?
    I think many people overestimate the damage we get from a few additional adds now and then. If they're there for a long time, especially when standing close to each other, SEF is really strong. But if they don't live for that long or aren't stacked together (Kromog, Thogar, Darmac, Blackhand, etc) many other classes gain more from it and can do more damage on them. On pure single target, which is basically only Gruul, we're on the higher end of the spectrum, but not really op. The 3-4% nerf doesn't hurt us that much on that front. Though overall we fall from middle of the pack (spec score for mythic overall we're at place 8/11, but almost at the same spot as the 4 classes before us) a bit further down.
    If there are many Maidens/Orgon bosses in the coming instance, a nerf would be justified.
    Last edited by mmoc48c29aaf6e; 2015-04-18 at 12:06 AM.

  14. #2454
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsta View Post
    I think many people overestimate the damage we get from a few additional adds now and then. If they're there for a long time, especially when standing close to each other, SEF is really strong. But if they don't live for that long or aren't stacked together (Kromog, Thogar, Darmac, Blackhand, etc) many other classes gain more from it and can do more damage on them. On pure single target, which is basically only Gruul, we're on the higher end of the spectrum, but not really op. The 3-4% nerf doesn't hurt us that much on that front. Though overall we fall from middle of the pack (spec score for mythic overall we're at place 8/11, but almost at the same spot as the 4 classes before us) a bit further down.
    If there are many Maidens/Orgon bosses in the coming instance, a nerf would be justified.
    I disagree. Just because there's a lot of fights that fit our niche(I don't actually think that's the case in HFC, but I haven't really looked into it much) doesn't mean we should get nerfed so we're worse on our niche fights and on all the other fights where we're upper middle of the pack-ish at best, depending on the fight type. If they did nerf us because a few fights fit our niche, we might end up where Enhancement is right now(gods on their niche, decent at one other thing, godawful at everything else), which I really don't want to see happen.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2015-04-18 at 10:11 AM.
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  15. #2455
    Deleted
    I agree that it would be preferrable for them to nerf our niche in that case. But, as we've seen in Highmaul, Blizz doesn't seem to want to do that. And they don't let a class be overall a lot better than most others for a whole content (except mage and warlock). So an overall nerf would be expected and justified.

  16. #2456
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    So you're saying those are fights that WW can get extra damage on other things, so they do more damage than if they were just ST, yet they are in the middle of the pack for these fights. Shouldn't that mean that WW damage is below these numbers, so lower than middle of the pack if you don't use these extra "padding" techniques?
    Ya the 3-4% won't be as big on most fights. I don't want to claim how big the nerf is when it isn't ST since that depends on a number of factors but if it is smaller than 3-4% then I don't see it being a huge deal. There shouldn't be anything wrong with being in the middle of the pack. Instead of needing to be buffed or not nerfed to get to the top on every fight i believe that we should be bringing mages and hunters down to the middle with us. I'm not sure entirely what you mean by us being lower than the pack if we don't use extra padding. I'm not saying ignore hands on kromog or ignore pack beasts because they don't matter but I just don't believe that damage is going to be what is wiping you anymore so it shouldn't be as important. As the raid gets more geared they start getting to the point where they are getting 1 shot and since to do our max AOE damage takes a slight ramp up with the two seconds for two clones then two globals for RSK and TP for each clone to get to max damage, the shorter the adds are out the less effective we will be. I am not saying we are going to be in the best spot with these nerfs but i don't feel like we are going to be sat anytime soon.
    Last edited by Lalaman23; 2015-04-18 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Didn't want to come off like i was attacking anybody

  17. #2457
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalaman23 View Post
    Instead of needing to be buffed or not nerfed to get to the top on every fight i believe that we should be bringing mages and hunters down to the middle with us.
    Statement contains approximately zero logic. You're saying bring the top dps to the middle "with us"? You realize you'll always have someone at the top regardless of who you move where, right?

  18. #2458
    I think what he was trying to say is to bring mages down from 15% higher on most fights down to the 1-2% difference of the middle classes

  19. #2459
    Hello again, wanna ask about opener,
    For serenity: start with 5chi>TP>RSK>brew>BOK>brew>TEB>FOF>Jab>Serenity
    Sometimes only get 6~7 stacks... I still use TEB than FOF, is that right?

    and how about use Serenity before FOF? I found Natußòóbîe do this way on Gruul.

  20. #2460
    Quote Originally Posted by frank161616 View Post
    Hello again, wanna ask about opener,
    For serenity: start with 5chi>TP>RSK>brew>BOK>brew>TEB>FOF>Jab>Serenity
    Sometimes only get 6~7 stacks... I still use TEB than FOF, is that right?

    and how about use Serenity before FOF? I found Natußòóbîe do this way on Gruul.
    The debate around serenity or FoF first has been going on for ages in this thread haha but the consensus seems to be FoF first and I think the logic behind that is that its easier to miss an FoF cast over the course of the fight than it is to miss out on a Serenity cast. Realistically its not going to affect DPS by more than a couple hundred either way so its really not the end of the world.

    In regards to your first point, yes, during opener always pop TeB, regardless of stacks, before FoF the guys in this thread have pretty much ironed that out. Always want to have that juicy pre pot buffed up real good. And yes does it suck when you only get like 6 stacks but oh my is it great when you get 10!

    This isn't my work, a huge shoutout has to go out to Hina, Total, and Babylonius (and I'm sure many others!) they have done a ton of work answering this question (and many others) and helping us all be better

    Cheers friends!

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