Flare nerfed against rogues - video

[Arrowset]

I saw a rogue in another thread talking about how happy he was that the subterfuge talent now lets rogues open with stealth abilities on hunters standing on a flare. So I figured I'd get on my rogue on another account and make a test video. Sure enough, it does ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RZ1...ature=youtu.be

[BreezyED]

Well, I don't like this very much. It needs to be fixed back to how it was. I don't think this is intentional.

[Arcanimus]

I saw a rogue in another thread talking about how happy he was that the subterfuge talent now lets rogues open with stealth abilities on hunters standing on a flare. So I figured I'd get on my rogue on another account and make a test video. Sure enough, it does ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RZ1...ature=youtu.be

Its a mechanical change. It allows them to use openers outside stealth. This is a NERF to Subterfuge, and allows the rogue to be peeled during an opener burst, unlike Subterfuge of yore. You can also drop a trap under yourself and the rogue will be frozen when they open. Don't get mad, adapt.

[Nightspear]

there is very little point of flare atm. I wonder, why they didn't ability prune it?

[Arcanimus]

Well, I don't like this very much. It needs to be fixed back to how it was. I don't think this is intentional.

It is absolutely intentional. It's no different than giving rogues Shadow Dance for 3 seconds after leaving stealth. That was the original intent of the talent, and is how it now functions, without the actual stealth component.

[Arrowset]

You can also drop a trap under yourself and the rogue will be frozen when they open. Don't get mad, adapt.

I'm not mad- more amused at this point. All kinds of little nerfs to hunter scattered around the class (e.g. autoshotting during powershot and breaking traps).

It's kind of fun to go looking for them.

[Arcanimus]

there is very little point of flare atm. I wonder, why they didn't ability prune it?

Flare is also useable against Invisible mages, prowling druids, and even has uses in PvE should stealthed mobs exist in an encounter (Nazgrim for Asssassins)

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I'm not mad- more amused at this point.

You should try reading patch notes for other classes some time. It might give you some insight you wouldn't have otherwise.

[BreezyED]

It is absolutely intentional. It's no different than giving rogues Shadow Dance for 3 seconds after leaving stealth. That was the original intent of the talent, and is how it now functions, without the actual stealth component.

Sounds like I should plant traps under me now. At least traps activate instantly now.

Anybody know if rogues can still see traps?

[Arrowset]

You should try reading patch notes for other classes some time. It might give you some insight you wouldn't have otherwise.

That's some very sound advice, Arcanimus- thank you very much for it.

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Anybody know if rogues can still see traps?

They can (I think), but they can't disarm them (I'm sure about that part). So yeah, stand on a glyphed explosive trap and you should be ok (last I checked cloak of shadows doesn't even stop that). More of a hassle to the majority of hunters who don't follow these things.

[Arcanimus]

Anybody know if rogues can still see traps?

IIRC traps use the same stealth mechanic as players and NPCs use, so they will be able to see them within a certain range, which is affected by facing and latency.

[Arrowqt]

In this past season even with flare down on an unstealthed player if a rogue in subterfuge opens, said rogue doesn't get unstealthed until the subterfuge buff fades, the change makes it easier for them to be peeled while opening through cross cc. Definitely a nerf on the rogue's part, they need to blow cloak to guarantee their opener.

Anybody know if rogues can still see traps?

Afaik from skirmish testing, no. Traps are undetectable even at melee range by a rogue. Disarm trap has been removed anyway.

[Arcanimus]

they need to blow cloak to guarantee their opener.

No, they don't. They enter the flare and have their opener for 3 seconds after touching it.

[Daieon]

With a change like that to subterfuge, I'm kind of wondering why we lost Hunter's Mark and druids got to keep faerie fire. If Flare's travel time was faster maybe it'd be a little nicer, but it seems like we aren't nearly as strong against stealth classes as we were before. This takes away even more of a hunter's usefulness and strength in PvP. Even though traps are now much larger range and can't be disarmed, rogues can still be aware of them while stealthed, I've seen this first hand on my rogue. Hunter's Mark > Flare? Maybe making flare leave a debuff on for 2-3s after someone affected leaves the area? It does seem a lot less potent now that we can't hunter's mark once we get someone out of stealth.

[Arrowqt]

No, they don't. They enter the flare and have their opener for 3 seconds after touching it.

I think you misunderstood. They need to blow cloak to not be cross-cced after being flared out. We are saying the same thing, they still get their 3 second shadowdance.



I've already made this known, but if you are talking about current build, the interaction between flare and subterfuge is bugged: see image. Subterfuge is up yet game does not recognize stealth for ambush/garrote.

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Even though traps are now much larger range and can't be disarmed, rogues can still be aware of them while stealthed, I've seen this first hand on my rogue.

If you place your traps without using trap launcher there is no sound that gives it away, and even with trap launcher there is no way the rogue knows where the trap is. They just know that there is a trap down.
As long as you are keeping flare under the target they want to open, all their vanish becomes is a cooldown for them to sap off other ccs, or at worst case a 3 second shadowdance every two minutes minus prep. Seems okay.