Constant Evolving MMO

[appleezz]

So I was thinking. Currently when we level in Warcraft the story is all mixed up. We go from Deathwing being the evil guy, to Illidan, to Lich King, back to Deathwing, then Garrosh, then Iron Horde... It's all jumbled.

So what would be your opinion on an MMO with a constantly evolving world? For example. There's a patch where Bob is the enemy. We get new dungeons, new raids, new enemies to fight out in the open world. But toward the end of the patch when Bob is defeated, the world reflects on that. Content related to him will no longer exist. Quests won't revolve around him, a dungeon where he imprisoned the innocent has been liberated and may have even been turned into a new friendly location, and the raid which was his evil lair is now in ruins. Gear that could be obtained from it is no longer obtainable, as with mounts, and other items. Then Billy shows up is trying to do a better job than his brother Bob. So new quests, dungeons, raid, locations will show up and the story progresses.

So going back to WoW, if they did this content which existed in BC wouldn't exist. Sure there'd be tavern talk of the days past, but there wouldn't be any quests related to killing Illidan or soloing Kara for old gear. It keeps the story up to date and no issue as stated above of the story being jumbled as you make your way to max level.

Would you play an MMO like this?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

That's Guild Wars 2 buddy.

And, while I really like the idea, I'd prefer to have old content still be accessible (Note: not special event chains, those can be limited time. But main quests should be left unremoved), so that new players who'd like to get into lore of the game have a chance to do so. It's no fun hearing about how awesome the Lich King expansion was, only to find out you can't experience it because you weren't subbed at the time.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't like it quite that extreme. There should be some mechanism to visit past phases. But I'd love that basic idea.

[appleezz]

I wouldn't like it quite that extreme. There should be some mechanism to visit past phases. But I'd love that basic idea.

Why do you think people should be able to visit past phases?

[Thelxi]

GW2 has what you are looking for.

[Valeron]

what about an MMO where the players change the world rather than developer lead changes

[Silver Forte]

Why do you think people should be able to visit past phases?

Because they want to. People still raid Ulduar and Icecrown. Nobody would be able to do that if they took Icecrown out.

[appleezz]

what about an MMO where the players change the world rather than developer lead changes

That's whole different discussion that's already crossed my mind.

- - - Updated - - -

Because they want to. People still raid Ulduar and Icecrown. Nobody would be able to do that if they took Icecrown out.

So just because they want to doesn't mean they should be able to. Imo I'd rather have a world that's constantly growing and changing then getting more and more abandoned locations each patch. It keeps things different and non-repetitive.

[Deleted]

Why do you think people should be able to visit past phases?

Because there's no reason not to and visiting past content is fun. Certain events should be one time only, that creates a sense of prestige for those who have taken part. But take it too far and players will feel as though they've missed out on too much. Not to mention previous phases may include plot points relevant to current phases.

[OmniSkribe]

So just because they want to doesn't mean they should be able to. Imo I'd rather have a world that's constantly growing and changing then getting more and more abandoned locations each patch. It keeps things different and non-repetitive.

So, you will have to constantly change leveling quests (for example for 1-58 azeroth) to be on par with history. Blizzard can do this (like in cataclysm) but it takes huge amount of resources and time and in the end it plays very small part. No to mention that every single quest should have and impact on the world around you, and every update will affect quest thus their outcome. It's an infinite loop of changes to the game world. Or you are simply falling out of your own concept of evolving world.

Or you fall into Guild Wars situation where all other zones live it's own separated lives from the zone that is changed by story progression. And you simply lose the "Epiceness" and "Scope" effects from the story if only depict local changes.

[Shamanberry]

Long story short: It would be far too much work.

They'd basically have to design entirely new leveling content as replacements for entire expansions at the end of each one, since nearly all of the content of an expansion in one way or another leads to the bosses. Even if it creates time paradoxes (and we've got a lot of them at this point), it's better that the devs spend their limited time working on adding new content rather than replacements for old content.

[Ferocity]

So going back to WoW, if they did this content which existed in BC wouldn't exist. Sure there'd be tavern talk of the days past, but there wouldn't be any quests related to killing Illidan or soloing Kara for old gear. It keeps the story up to date and no issue as stated above of the story being jumbled as you make your way to max level.

Would you play an MMO like this?

WoW without Karazhan, let alone whole TBC, is just... lol

People should realize that narrative and story are the least important things in any video game. It is cool when it is there and done at a good level. But too much games put it at expense of game content and gameplay.

So - no, just no. According to such logic, each game should permanently remove itself from your PC after you completed it and never be installable again.

[Airlick]

There's already an MMO like that, it's called life.

Writing that made me realise that we are only characters in an impossibly large MMO game. No in-game (I mean, what we call real life) company would be able to sustain a game this large, imagine how much work would have to go into re-designing whole zones AND designing new dungeons, raids and zones. It's impossible for us. But what if it's possible for aliens (or gods, but they are probably just another form of alien)? Our whole life may be just a few minutes for an alien. Wars are PvP, unfortunately the game doesn't have real PvE since dragons went all extinct, but it does have advanced crafting and heavy emphasis on the social aspect. It takes a large amount of effort to rebuild zones destroyed in PvP, and you can't revisit former events. And so on...

Damn.

[jakeic]

WoW without Karazhan, let alone whole TBC, is just... lol

People should realize that narrative and story are the least important things in any video game. It is cool when it is there and done at a good level. But too much games put it at expense of game content and gameplay.

So - no, just no. According to such logic, each game should permanently remove itself from your PC after you completed it and never be installable again.

I understand the point you're trying to make and I agree to it with for the most part, but in a game like wow the gameplay takes a far backseat to the story.

- - - Updated - - -

There's already an MMO like that, it's called life.

Writing that made me realise that we are only characters in an impossibly large MMO game. No in-game (I mean, what we call real life) company would be able to sustain a game this large, imagine how much work would have to go into re-designing whole zones AND designing new dungeons, raids and zones. It's impossible for us. But what if it's possible for aliens (or gods, but they are probably just another form of alien)? Our whole life may be just a few minutes for an alien. Wars are PvP, unfortunately the game doesn't have real PvE since dragons went all extinct, but it does have advanced crafting and heavy emphasis on the social aspect. It takes a large amount of effort to rebuild zones destroyed in PvP, and you can't revisit former events. And so on...

Damn.

yeah, what you're talking about might be the Simulation Hypothesis.

[Heathy]

classic naxx says hello. i got to try the place on the ptr, my guild was doing 3 nights a week and we didn't get half way through bwl before tbc released. its not fun working toward something only to have it removed and the chance gone.

classic naxx on the ptr was funny, i remember the lag was insane and various mobs were just pink squares, noone had a clue what to do, fun times. it was like 'wtf is the pink square omg wipe'

recently i've been casually grinding away on wurm online, that game up until recently had its uniques being real unique, the dragons and giants only spawned once, but they have realized that its better to respawn them now and then so ppl actually get a chance to see them and its not the same bunch of guys going from map to map penning or slaying them as a closed group. you'll never get the continuity because that would mean as soon as one guild kills the boss hes dead and everyone else goes without. or better yet it doesn't fix the problem of multiple groups killing the same boss in 'different dimensions' or however you want to picture it.

[The Kao]

WoW's story elements might seem a bit random and patched together, granted, but at some point you must see that this is supposed to be a world that resembles ours to some degree. In such a world many disconnected things happen simultaneously all the time, sometimes things boil up more than usual, others they're not entirely finished when the focus shifts away. You might say that to some degree this is a lot closer to how a world really works than just focusing on one story at a time.

In terms of game design it also gives you the benefit of more diverse settings. Things can get really tedious and even flat out boring for the player if you concentrate on the very same story elements over and over. Look at GW2's or SWTOR's personal story. While epic, these are far too long by like 30% of their respective size, and as soon as you've finished them once you find that 80% of the story is always the same, which I found incredibly annoying from the second character on. The illusion of a living world was gone at that point as well. A change in theming, or a constant choice like WoW offers it, is what these games lack the most.

[Valeron]

, or a constant choice like WoW offers it, is what these games lack the most.

come again? what choice does WoW offer?

[hrugner]

It would be pretty cool, though it may make sense for it to be tied to a player group rather than a server wide thing. If you had a game where you signed into an MMO story group of maybe 20 people and got to try to change the world with them, but it also let you start up a new world and try different things, would be pretty cool.

Organizing groups to engineer certain plot occurrences could be very interesting.

[Aylashae]

Im surprised no one has mentioned everquest next. That is exactly what you just proposed.

(I am probably horribly butchering this so please forgive)
Example: The Sacking of Halas

There is a cry out for adventurers to help find and set up a new outpost within the wintry wilds. You have to fight off goblins and make the area safe for habitation. So you and your fellow servermates come together and push the goblin scum from the region. (NPCs have smart ai, and have requirements in where they will live/spawn, meaning if a mob of goblins spawn in one camp and are being killed repeatedly and have some of their dislike requirements met, like being killed, they will pack up and move to another location.(

Then when that is done, an outpost is starting to shape, you go out farm wood, and materials to help build and also help locate a mine for minerals and stone to build up defenses and homes. During this time, those gobos you all ran off are none to happy about it and start recruiting other creatures to help take back their lands promising loot and easy prey. You will have to start fighting off raiding parties.

More time passes, you now have a functioning Keep, with stone walls, a mine, and good defenses, but still need to increase the town, you do other quests, missions and ventures out into the wilds. Perform trades and protect routes for merchants. Then you start getting reports of a large army heading to Halas, goblins, orcs ogres, siege weapons, you name it are all coming.

This is when a region/server wide call for help is announced to help fight off the army. Win or lose special things happen.

Developers have announced that they will be resetting these events throughout the years, maybe a 6 month thing or so. So that everyone can enjoy it.

Now dont even get me started on voxels, that will be awesome.

[Azrile]

Removing old content for the sake of ´story´ is not really a good business decision. It takes a lot of work to do even simple stuff, which you don´t want to waste on content that isn´t going to have a high return on investment. This is the reason why stuff like the 6.0 ´event´ is so small.

Also, you earn 0 points by talking about a game that isn´t released yet. What games ´plan´to do with patches and content releases very rarely matches up with how things turn out. GW2 is pretty close to what the OP is talking about, but even they try really hard not to remove content whenever possible.