Undertaker

[Fleckens]

There's a huge difference between a minion that has has 3 stats for 1 mana and a minion that has 4 for 3. If questing adventurer doesn't have a follow up on the same turn, it's extremely easy to remove as people will have a lot more options at turn 3/4 than 1/2, and often the undertaker will even be stronger than questing if it's coined with a 1 drop deathrattle. Questing could also be coined with a 1 drop, but that's still just a 4-4 for 3 compared to a 2-3 for 1, and unlike the undertaker opening it means your opening is significantly weaker due to holding onto the coin until turn 3. You also won't be as bad off using removal on a questing compared to an undertaker, as the mana costs are closer.

The most acceptable nerf to undertaker would probably be to just make it a 1/1, that way it wouldn't be able to get out of control as easily, but could still get very good valuable as it's meant to.

[basharteg]

Which is the main reason the card is any good, because of how fast it is and the tempo advantage it gives you. Increase it's mana cost and it just becomes a poor man's questing adventurer.


No but you lost an immense amount of tempo, which is what deathrattle decks rely on. You basically just wasted a turn doing nothing, which is what a tempo deck does not want to do. They could have dropped a webspinner instead, or if it's a priest, your next play is likely a haunted creeper or a loot hoarder, which just slows you down even more, particularly if you are playing against a warrior, druid or mage.

So yes, it really hurt to lose your undertaker on the turn you played it.

I'm well aware of the fact that it's mana cost is why it's a really really good card, this is why a 3 mana cost adventure is worse, which is the opposite of what you said. You will still have control of the board after losing undertaker to a frostbolt/lightning bolt, but yeah, losing the minion that can get out of control on turn 2/3 is bad, but it's not like the other person spent less mana or it got an uneven trade. Nearly every trade you do with an undertaker is equal in value or worse for the other person.

[Deleted]

I'm well aware of the fact that it's mana cost is why it's a really really good card, this is why a 3 mana cost adventure is worse, which is the opposite of what you said.

Pretty sure I didn't say that; I said an undertaker with an increased mana cost is worse than the questing adventurer.

You will still have control of the board after losing undertaker to a frostbolt/lightning bolt, but yeah, losing the minion that can get out of control on turn 2/3 is bad, but it's not like the other person spent less mana or it got an uneven trade. Nearly every trade you do with an undertaker is equal in value or worse for the other person.

I would still argue it is less even than you make it out to be. Yes, it is still anybody's game at that point but deathrattle decks often rely on getting off the ground fast and losing that momentum can actually escalate further along the game. This is true particularly against control decks, who become stronger the longer the game goes on.

Yes, you can still put out your consecutive minions but from turns 2-3 and beyond so can they. You just lost a big piece of your overall strategy, while at best your opponent lost one cheap spell, or at worst, only one charge of their axe.

There are a lot nuances to the subject but I think the main point here is that with so many ways to counter it, undertaker is not overpowered. It is strong but that is not a reason to nerf it. If anything, being strong is why it sees play, like most cards in constructed.

[Deleted]

Undertaker is probably one of the most overpowered cards in the game atm. Back during the beta, it was said(quite often, by many) that a rogue opening of coined Defias Ringleader was too strong, given how much tempo was obtained off it, specially since many classes didn't have the early game to fight back. Well undertaker is way stronger then defias ever was.

I've seen people saying things about undertaker snowballing or comparing it to Questing Adventurer. You should compare it to Secretkeeper. Undertaker needs to(and probably will get) nerfed.

[zenga]

There are a lot nuances to the subject but I think the main point here is that with so many ways to counter it, undertaker is not overpowered. It is strong but that is not a reason to nerf it. If anything, being strong is why it sees play, like most cards in constructed.

There are very few nuances to the subject since drawing an undertaker + having the coin decides half of the time who wins in current meta. Not only because of the stats, but it also buffs cq increases the value of most other deathrattle cards, more than any card in the game (e.g. the value of leper gnome doubles just because of undertaker).

Plenty of other 'strong' cards around that see little to no play, none that come even close to undertaker.

[Deleted]

There are very few nuances to the subject since drawing an undertaker ...

We can agree to disagree.

[Anzen]

We can agree to disagree.

Wondering what your ulterior motive is to defending Undertaker. Even though you admitted playing a Deathrattle Priest, I'm not sure why you're going to such extents to disagree with every single post in the entire thread.

[Deleted]

Wondering what your ulterior motive is to defending Undertaker. Even though you admitted playing a Deathrattle Priest, I'm not sure why you're going to such extents to disagree with every single post in the entire thread.

He addressed me, so I'm addressing him back. That and I suppose the inconsequential point that I actually disagree with the premise that undertaker is overpowered. Nothing more convoluted than that.

[arandan]

every single class in the game has an answer for undertaker, it's called a fucking owl.
start playing it kids and rejoice.

[Calaba]

every single class in the game has an answer for undertaker, it's called a fucking owl.
start playing it kids and rejoice.

Oh, great - you just traded your 2 drop for a 1 drop. Nice.
Have to agree, undertaker is too overpowered for a 1 drop. Needs nerfing so it doesn't gain health or something, that way you can play 2/1s and stuff against it, and also AoE stuff like holy nova, consecrate and explosive trap gets much better against these decks with tons of cheap deathrattle minions, not to mention stuff like arcane shot and smite. You've got far more removal options then.

[Deleted]

Oh, great - you just traded your 2 drop for a 1 drop. Nice.
Have to agree, undertaker is too overpowered for a 1 drop. Needs nerfing so it doesn't gain health or something, that way you can play 2/1s and stuff against it, and also AoE stuff like holy nova, consecrate and explosive trap gets much better against these decks with tons of cheap deathrattle minions, not to mention stuff like arcane shot and smite. You've got far more removal options then.

Acording to you, no one should trade for a priest Northshire Cleric or a mage Mana Worm. Cause you know, they are 1 drops.

[Kelimbror]

Oh, great - you just traded your 2 drop for a 1 drop. Nice.

Oh look. You just completely prevented the rush tempo that was about to wreck your face causing your opponent to entirely rethink the rest of the game....especially if they built their deck around undertakers. All this for only two mana. The horror. Do people who comment on game balance only play in non ranked or something? B/c they don't seem to reflect how you actually play the game climbing a ladder.

[Anuibus]

Acording to you, no one should trade for a priest Northshire Cleric or a mage Mana Worm. Cause you know, they are 1 drops.

Ideally, you kill it for free with your 3/2.

[Anzen]

Acording to you, no one should trade for a priest Northshire Cleric or a mage Mana Worm. Cause you know, they are 1 drops.

They're both class cards (which are deliberately over-valued). That said, I'm not mad anymore; almost pushed rank 2 from 7 on ladder after swapping to a Death Rattle Hunter a couple of days ago.

That feel when they can't deal with your Undertaker B-)

Will likely run double flare to counter the endless hunters I seem to face QQ

[Deleted]

i getting those undertaker openers, hate it happening to me tho. RNG ftw?

[Noomz]

I'll have to go spell check all my previous posts, the pedantics' will come down on me like a flock of vultures.

No you just need to calm down with the snide remarks. Nobody is gonna listen to you with the attitude your spewing. You're also doing it over a discussion about the balance of a card in a cardgame.
Seriously, chill.

- - - Updated - - -

They're both class cards (which are deliberately over-valued). That said, I'm not mad anymore; almost pushed rank 2 from 7 on ladder after swapping to a Death Rattle Hunter a couple of days ago.

That feel when they can't deal with your Undertaker B-)

Will likely run double flare to counter the endless hunters I seem to face QQ

What a hypocrit you are.

[Anzen]

What a hypocrit you are.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em

It doesn't really change my opinion on the card, I still think it's broken; hell if anything swapping to a Death Rattle Hunter and having great success with it almost evidences the fact (well actually I suppose it doesn't, Hunters are still strong without imo).

Besides it's no more hypocritical that the people in this thread defending Undertaker despite running decks based around the card.

[Deleted]

What a hypocrit you are.

Yeah, found myself thinking the same thing. I guess balance doesn't matter when you're the one reaping the benefits

[Anzen]

Yeah, found myself thinking the same thing. I guess balance doesn't matter when you're the one reaping the benefits

Don't you play a Death Rattle priest?

[Deleted]

Don't you play a Death Rattle priest?

I do but I never said the card is overpowered. You've been among the loudest voices that it is.