Frost Nerf

[texhex]

20% of the 'new' damage but this doesn't make it less than before it takes it back to what it originally was before the first hotfix.

Original damage * 1.2 = Middle Damage
And
Middle Damage / 1.2 = Final Damage
Therefore
Final Damage = [Original Damage*1.2]/1.2
which is the same as Final Damage = Original Damage

no Zulandia, just no

imagine:
base=100
100*1,2 = 120

new base = 120
20% of that = 24 --> 120-24 = 96

or in your formular
120*0,8 = 96 which is less than before

if you want to show it in one formular it is:
ODamage * 1.2 * 0,8 --> ODamage * 0,96


i still think blizzard jsut put it back to the original value and justexpressed it mathematically wrong like " ye we buffed it 20% lets just remove that 20% buff again which means we nerf it 20%" which might sound valid firsthand but is mathematically totally wrong

[Zulandia]

Ya I've been up all night so I'm a bit out of it but I fixed it before you posted but after you had started replying I guess haha. Good catch regardless and sorry for the confusion ^_^

[Exostential]

20% of the 'new' damage so we end up with ~96% of the original Frostbolt damage from 6.0 (before any hotfixes)



All three specs are fairly straightforward, drop the superiority complex for playing fire/arcane and stop the pointless frost shaming. People should play whatever makes them enjoy the game more (if that's not the optimal spec who are you to judge or belittle).

I'm not shaming or belittling, I'm simply being realistic. Frost is probably the best example of a shoot and react to proc spec in this game.

[Recom]

Except Zygarius explicitly said the net difference after the nerf is 0 so back to 100% and not 96%. Unless he's lying ofc.

[gallamann]

Then you are not really FOTM mage, otherwise you would use any spec which is considerably (not "too far", closer to "slightly") ahead.

Also, you misses the most fun mage spec - fast paced and requiring both reaction and planning. And well-balanced in scaling.

As for Frost nerf - imo, Frost spec is extremely valuable only for "MoP newcomers" and definately should not be the highest mage dps spec (it is boring, straightforward with just "flat dmg" procs). So the nerf is appreciated.

That's the beauty of opinions

Imo, Arcane spec is extremely valuable only for "Cata Babies" and definitely should not be the highest mage dps spec (it is boring, straightforward push two buttons while waiting for Evocate to come off cool). So a Nerf would be appreciated.

* sarcasm *

[Komman]

Cross-posting from Altered Time to clarify the 20% nerf to Frostbolt.

Testing shows that Frostbolt is currently hitting for ~119.1% spellpower, which matches client data. It looks like this time the 20% was multiplicative instead of additive. This means that it's a full revert of both October 13 and 17 hotfixes.

Before 6.0.2 was laucnhed: 119.1%
October 13 hotfix: 119.1% * ( 1 + 0.05 ) = 125.055%
October 17 hotfix (additive): 119.1% * ( 1 + 0.05 + 0.2 ) = 148.875%
October 29 hotfix (multiplicative 119.1% * ( 1 + 0.05 + 0.2 ) * ( 1 - 0.2 ) = 119.1%

Their hotfix descriptions are extremely inconsistent. I wish they'd just say "Frostbolt now hits for X% spellpower (Increased/Reduced by Y%)."

[Qck]

Cross-posting from Altered Time to clarify the 20% nerf to Frostbolt.

I wonder if they even know that's the case.

Cynical as ever, but I'm actually really not sure these guys have a clue what they're doing.

[Relapses]

I wonder if they even know that's the case.

Cynical as ever, but I'm actually really not sure these guys have a clue what they're doing.

They buffed Moonkins 40% when they were already near the top in terms of damage, even going so far as increasing the potency of one of the most ridiculously broken AE talents in the game by nearly 100%. The only explanation I can think of for this is that somebody on the class designer team is married to a Moonkin and really needed to make sure his wife didn't lose her raid spot.

[nLord]

That's the beauty of opinions

Imo, Arcane spec is extremely valuable only for "Cata Babies" and definitely should not be the highest mage dps spec (it is boring, straightforward push two buttons while waiting for Evocate to come off cool). So a Nerf would be appreciated.

* sarcasm *

There are different opinions - but the true mage should respect any mage spec and play whatever fits content more, not the only spec he can actually play. Also, Arcane is not straightforward now at all - maybe on Burn phase a bit but Conserve phase counts much more considering overall dps and there you need to decide something very often.

As for top dps spec - it should be the one requiring the highest skill to perform well. And it is definitely not Frost now.

[durrtygoodz]

Also, Arcane is not straightforward now at all - maybe on Burn phase a bit but Conserve phase counts much more considering overall dps and there you need to decide something very often.

Cast 4 ABs
Dump missile procs
Decision: Use AB if enough mana
Dump with ArBarr

Where is the complexity?

[nLord]

Cast 4 ABs
Dump missile procs
Decision: Use AB if enough mana
Dump with ArBarr

Where is the complexity?

Highlighted complexity since Frost doesn't have even such decisions.

The complexity is in what you call "enough".
If you will dump ArB too often - you will lose dps.
If you will dump ArB too early or too late - you will lose dps.
If you will dump AM too early - you will lose some mana regen and then dps because of it.
etc...
Arcane is not about "rotation" - it is about "trying to stay on high mana without ArB".

[Relapses]

Highlighted complexity since Frost doesn't have even such decisions.

The complexity is in what you call "enough".
If you will dump ArB too often - you will lose dps.
If you will dump ArB too early or too late - you will lose dps.
If you will dump AM too early - you will lose some mana regen and then dps because of it.
etc...
Arcane is not about "rotation" - it is about "trying to stay on high mana without ArB".

You're literally comparing the difficulty of this:



...with the difficulty of this:



The only Mage spec that requires a little bit of thought process is Fire, and even then it's "Hey, did I Crit a lot? Okay. Combustion."

[Polarthief]

You're literally comparing the difficulty of this

You're literally using the word "literally" incorrectly. I don't believe he was ever comparing childish toys.

PS: Fire definitely doesn't have a shred of thought process. Arcane is the only one that has a decision path.

[durrtygoodz]

You're literally comparing the difficulty of this:



...with the difficulty of this:



The only Mage spec that requires a little bit of thought process is Fire, and even then it's "Hey, did I Crit a lot? Okay. Combustion."

hhahaha i love you

- - - Updated - - -

You're literally using the word "literally" incorrectly. I don't believe he was ever comparing childish toys.

mate please go

[Deleted]

You're literally using the word "literally" incorrectly. I don't believe he was ever comparing childish toys.

PS: Fire definitely doesn't have a shred of thought process. Arcane is the only one that has a decision path.

I know it's offtopic a bit, but "literally" has gained an extra definition in 2011 or something:

literally
/ˈlɪtərəlɪ/
adverb
1.
in a literal manner
2.
(intensifier): there were literally thousands of people

Actually interesting how the definition got changed to reflect the usage of the word.

[Deleted]

I know it's offtopic a bit, but "literally" has gained an extra definition in 2011 or something:

literally
/ˈlɪtərəlɪ/
adverb
1.
in a literal manner
2.
(intensifier): there were literally thousands of people

Actually interesting how the definition got changed to reflect the usage of the word.

Please let me marry you.

[durrtygoodz]

Please let me marry you.

Please be less gay.

[Deleted]

Please be less gay.

Why? Don't judge luv!

[Relapses]

You're literally using the word "literally" incorrectly. I don't believe he was ever comparing childish toys.

PS: Fire definitely doesn't have a shred of thought process. Arcane is the only one that has a decision path.

I'm literally being facetious.

The point is none of the specs are complex and arguing over which requires more effort may as well be comparing Fisher Price play toys.

[nLord]

You're literally comparing the difficulty of this:
...
The only Mage spec that requires a little bit of thought process is Fire, and even then it's "Hey, did I Crit a lot? Okay. Combustion."

The funny thing is that you actually agree with me, that Frost is overwhelmingly dumb spec.
So, logically, it should be nerfed unless it receives some new complex feature.
Otherwise, mage may become the "new hunter" with no-brainer close-to-top dps spec and in the end the whole class will suffer...