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  1. #41
    Science should never be governed by mysticism. Yes it has been held back for decades because of ridiculous shit like this. What makes matters worse are shows like Helix which purport that ungoverned science brings about disastrous abominations.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Conspiracy Theories? What is this I don't even-?
    See, now you're just to divert the conversation in order to avoid admitting that what you were saying at the beginning of the thread made no sense at all, which is just so typical of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  3. #43
    "the dead should, if possible, serve the purposes of the living...and the dead, if they could feel, might feel better doing so."
    Last edited by Tradewind; 2014-10-30 at 06:38 PM.
    "You six-piece Chicken McNobody."
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
    You are a legend thats why.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    This image sums it up pretty good as its often religion that slows things down...


  5. #45
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeno View Post
    See, now you're just to divert the conversation in order to avoid admitting that what you were saying at the beginning of the thread made no sense at all, which is just so typical of you.
    No, I'm just giving a complete non-sequitur the flippant response it deserves.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    From what I understand, the IPS cells are in some ways superior to embryonic stem cells, since you can use a person's own cells for the research, meaning there's lower possibility of rejection.

    If anything, the moral objections to embryonic stem cells, spurred the development of IPS cells, which is a much more promising thing overall.
    It would have been developed anyway. Just later. The research based on ESC would have continued instead of having to wait (continue at a much slower pace) for relatively unreliable (at this point) adult derived stem cells. We're still pretty early, and there's still a lot of pure research to be done. Research that would have been done a decade ago.

    BTW, the research that's been stymied by the ban isn't just for replacement organs. It's essentially hampered all gene therapy research because there is a lot of cross over in manipulating stem cells and being able to conditionally express genes (for example expressing that 3rd copy of a chromosome, or expressing the gene that causes cystic fibrosis).

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    It depends on what you mean by Natural law, and how and where you apply it.

    I would say, if I were a strict adherent to it, getting medical attention, for things like cancer, would be going against natural law. My genes, the environment, or combination of the two are the cause of my cancer, so by default, I should live with the consequences and bow to natural law.

    Humans have gone way beyond natural law by the advent of medical science, and technology.
    http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialscienc...Law_Theory.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    It's stupid. Science, Politics and various other areas should never be restrained by Religion. Debate is fine, discussion is fine, but intervention and blockades, not acceptable.

    It's 2014, whatever you believe, whatever you choose to think happens, fine, but don't stop other fields from advancing.
    It's not religion, it's ethics.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    No, I'm just giving a complete non-sequitur the flippant response it deserves.
    So what you're doing is continuing to use a red herring to avoid the point I made about how ridiculous your idea about "morals" being "reasonable" was? Cool story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  10. #50
    This is where I have a hard time thinking of why peoples' uneducated thoughts should hamper progress
    Needless to say that entire history of humanity is a perfect example of this.
    I just wish scientific progress for the greater good would supersede ignorant opinions too often derived from dogma
    You are not the only one. Still some moral restrictions must be kept.

  11. #51
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    It would have been developed anyway. Just later. The research based on ESC would have continued instead of having to wait (continue at a much slower pace) for relatively unreliable (at this point) adult derived stem cells. We're still pretty early, and there's still a lot of pure research to be done. Research that would have been done a decade ago.

    BTW, the research that's been stymied by the ban isn't just for replacement organs. It's essentially hampered all gene therapy research because there is a lot of cross over in manipulating stem cells and being able to conditionally express genes (for example expressing that 3rd copy of a chromosome, or expressing the gene that causes cystic fibrosis).
    That's all fair enough. Still seems a bit like crying over spilt milk at this point. The science has moved on. Moral objections are no longer a significant problem for the science. No sense complaining about what might have been.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    It's not religion, it's ethics.
    Ethics is the same thing as religion, only with a different magic system than god.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    Ethics is the same thing as religion
    No, it isn't.

    There are plenty atheists that do not agree with abortion, that doesn't mean they're religious, despite having ethics.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    Ethics is the same thing as religion, only with a different magic system than god.
    Divine Command Theory is a type of ethics. Not sure what you mean by "different magic system". Also, ethics =/= religion. Ethics (while this IS short and does not do the word justice, please bear with it unless you are interested) is the way in which people do things and why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeno View Post
    Divine Command Theory is a type of ethics. Not sure what you mean by "different magic system". Also, ethics =/= religion. Ethics (while this IS short and does not do the word justice, please bear with it unless you are interested) is the way in which people do things and why.
    It asserts that morality is something tangible instead of it being a huge load of subjective bullshit.

    For instance regarding medical and scientific ethics specifically a long philosophical paper was written claiming how immoral cloning was. This was back in the 90's when it first started. I believe the guy was talking about how repugnant cloning was. He goes on and on to say that it is just immoral and wrong, but he couldn't point his finger on why this was so he just felt it. Then he claims that when these scientific questions come up that it's up to philosophers to find the answers... The science throughout the paper was accurate but the morality approaches were ridiculous. "You will never really love a cloned child". Sorry adopted kids your parents don't love you. Even more asinine shit than that was written but I can't recall it at the moment.

    Ethical questions are really hinged on the idea that morality is something real when it's not at all. They speak as if there is an absolute right or wrong when really it is a sequence of literary tricks meant to muddle the minds of the masses into agreeing with whatever bullshit they are trying to spin.
    Last edited by Coombs; 2014-10-30 at 06:57 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    It asserts that morality is something tangible instead of it being a huge load of subjective bullshit.
    Again, I am no expert nor is a one sentence soundbite a compliment to ethics. There are literally hundreds of books on the definition of ethics and moral alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    That's all fair enough. Still seems a bit like crying over spilt milk at this point. The science has moved on. Moral objections are no longer a significant problem for the science. No sense complaining about what might have been.
    For the most part, agreed. Once we get the point where adult derived cells perform as well as cells derived from embryonic tissue, then I'll completely agree. Until then, the ban is delaying potentially life saving research.

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