How come Asians aren't Republican leaning, yet fit the Repub model?

[Sledfang]

Democrats are currently the minority champion party. However as the majority minority creeps closer, the center will shift a bit to the left and there will be less white people by percent overtime. Resulting in Asians and Latinos moving to the right, not in an absolute way, but in a relative sense. People sometimes think that the right-wing will only ever be for whites, In fact given demographic trends this notion is impossible to sustain unless the US moved to a one party system, which is not going to happen.

[SpcGuts]

First off, that data is not particularly conclusive or even necessarily meaningful in my opinion. Democrat and Republican are identifications, not characteristics, so saying you are Democrat or Republican doesn't necessarily mean you believe certain things. Both parties are "big tent" (although the Democratic is getting more and more ideologically homogeneous) and encompass a spectrum. There used to be "blue dog" Democrats, although they are all but extinct, as well as progressive Democrats. There are "West Coast" Republicans as well as conservatives. As for the terms "liberal" and "conservative", these are mindsets that are often conflated with issue positions. Just because someone fits an issue profile does not mean that they possess that mind set. The position may not be salient in their community and they may go along with it despite not feeling strongly.

To answer your question directly, there are several possible explanations. One is that recent immigrants are typically not politically active. They are unfamiliar to the political context so it makes them uninterested political participants. As noted, many Asians "look" like Republicans (whether or not this would translate to Republican votes is another story), but they simply are not active in politics. The second half to this story is their children. Usually the strongest factor in a person's political mindset is their parents, but as we said, immigrants are not politically active. Second and third generation children, therefore, do not receive cues from their parents and instead absorb them from the mainstream culture. The vast majority of media, especially entertainment, is dominated by liberals. Not hard to see where they get their opinions from.

A second reason could be structural. Many Asians lived in urban areas, even if they may be filtering out now, like San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and Houston. The Democratic Party has historically had a stronger county based political structure, especially in urban settings. The Republican Party is stronger in suburban areas. I know in Houston I have witnessed several Asian political candidates with strong community ties. The strong political structure of the Democratic Party fit well with the already strong Asian community. Did I think that these candidates were particularly ideological? Not really.

The final considerations are a bit more philosophical: The crux of many Republican positions is that there should be limits on government powers and that sometimes rights trumps strict utility. The Democratic position is often that these are non-factors and that we should do whatever seems expedient at any particular moment. One requires a knowledge of context, history and political philosophy (even if only a rudimentary kind). The other does not. When you consider that these Asian youths are only receiving political direction from the likes of Jon Daly and that virtually no other political party in the world (besides the Tories and LibDems) makes these considerations, it's easy to see why the Republican position might seem incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

As a final note, I hope you found my post interesting enough to embarrass the likes of several other posters in this thread. You'll find that being able to dispassionately examine politics is an invaluable trait, and discovering the truth is much more comforting than simply labeling your ideological enemies evil.

Well since we are having a dispassionate examination of politics, would you mind clearifying a few of your points.

One requires a knowledge of context, history and political philosophy (even if only a rudimentary kind). The other does not.

Are you implying that people who possess the knowledge of context, history, and political philosophy tend to be for Republican policies and those who don't tend to favor Democratic policies?

When you consider that these Asian youths are only receiving political direction from the likes of Jon Daly.

I didn't know Jon Daly was a big player in politics. Is he some sort of Democratic figurehead for Asian youth?

[Puremallace]

uh they are educated and maybe want to know what a candidate stands for and not only what they are against? Time is simply not on the Republican parties side as education levels go up and old people die it is going to get bad.

I wish I could help people understand how bad this 30 year old white male feels betrayed by older people in Louisiana who want me to work till 70 or even privatize social security so that they can keep it.

[belfpala]

Didn't read thread.

Walk into a Small Town USA bar with an Asian girlfriend and you'll quickly find out.

[Deleted]

Didn't read thread.

Walk into a Small Town USA bar with an Asian girlfriend and you'll quickly find out.

I have no clue what you are talking about, but there's a good anekdote in this, enlighten please

[Sledfang]

uh they are educated and maybe want to know what a candidate stands for and not only what they are against? Time is simply not on the Republican parties side as education levels go up and old people die it is going to get bad.

Even if the Republican Party died and lost the presidency 3 times in a row. The right-wing would just change slightly and re-emerge. It wouldn't care about fighting social issues such as abortion and gay marriage since most non-Christian conservatives don't care about social issues over economics.

I wish I could help people understand how bad this 30 year old white male feels betrayed by older people in Louisiana who want me to work till 70 or even privatize social security so that they can keep it.

You are not alone. In my opinion, Baby Boomers in particular have betrayed Gen Y and Millennials through pure negligence. However there negligence is not a partisan one, it represents them all, not just one party.

[belfpala]

I have no clue what you are talking about, but there's a good anekdote in this, enlighten please

Anecdote. (the spelling).

Not sure how someone from Belgium would even begin to understand Small Town USA.

[Deleted]

Racial stereotypes aside...

"Asian Values" - Society > Family > Individual

Republican Values - Individual > Family > Society

To be a bit more correct, you should replace Asian with Confucian. Not all of Asia has these societal values, it's mostly East Asia.

[Screwtape]

Your analysis is just completely out of step with reality. Conservative Democrats dominate the senate, and the conservative New Democrat Coalition has over 50 members in the House. The Republican Party is inarguably more homogenous than the Democratic Party. You have to be completely blinded by ideology to reverse that.

Your analysis of the difference between Republicans and Democrats is a caricature at best, and portraying yourself as being some kind of high minded philosopher while providing such a base, oversimplified narrative is incredibly dishonest and condescending.

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If by "bourgeois" you mean STEM fields, sure...

Haha. Ok, well if my perception of reality is completely warped I guess I can't rebutt anything. I would like to know, however, who these conservative Democrats are. The fact is that we are in a rather (although not the most) polarized era, so the middle is shrinking somewhat for both parties. I've got Arlen Specter for the Republicans. Who do the Democrats have in the center? The seat formerly occupied by John Kerry? Bill Richardson is gone (governor). Lieberman is gone (bless his heart). The Bill Clinton Democrats are losing, the Progressives were winning. (And, again, that isn't necessarily because of the electorate) That was practically the theme of Hillary vs Obama. Obama fatigue isn't helping the Progressives right now but that's not an overarching theme. I also don't know how you can't look at the political events of the last 10 years and not conclude the country is INARGUABLY, as you put it, moving leftward. Oh, you want graphs? I got graphs. http://cdn-media.nationaljournal.com...n=get&id=36293

Looks pretty balanced for the Republicans and pretty tilted left for the Democrats.

As for diversity, I will assume that you thought I meant racial diversity when I meant ideological diversity. Forgive me for my errant pedantry. African-Americans, Hispanics and other minorities are not very ideological. They do not buy into Liberalism or Progressivism the way whites do unless they are well educated. The other part of the Democratic Party is true blue Progressives. You seem to still think there are some Blue Dogs lurking out there and you're entitled to do that. For the record, I don't think any Modern political party is particularly diverse, but the Republicans have some cultural and regional quirks that give them some ideological diversity. I'm not even sure if a "typical" Republican exists. A Southern Republican would definitely be more conservative than Liberal (I apologize for using liberal in its non-common usage. When you hear liberal, think UK Lib-Dems). A "West Coast" conservative would be socially liberal and want open markets. A libertarian would also want open markets but almost throw the doors open on social issues, even more so than a West Coaster. You even have some rather left leaning people who vote Republican on single issues, usually abortion.

I'm glad to have explained this, but this doesn't really touch on the topic at hand. If you want me to explain the philosophical differences between Republicans and Democrats I can do that to. I'm sorry if I offended you with the knowledge I gained from actual political scientists.

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Well since we are having a dispassionate examination of politics, would you mind clearifying a few of your points.


Are you implying that people who possess the knowledge of context, history, and political philosophy tend to be for Republican policies and those who don't tend to favor Democratic policies?



I didn't know Jon Daly was a big player in politics. Is he some sort of Democratic figurehead for Asian youth?

I'm saying that if you don't have the proper knowledge of history and context, then it seems that the Republican position would be more alien. Democratic policies often seemingly revolve around practicality while Republican positions often take the form of rights claims. You can take any number of positions- gun control, abortion, what have you- the Democratic position is essentially "here's a problem, here's a solution" while the Republicans say "woah, woah, there are complications to this". If you have no knowledge of the context or history of, say, the 2nd Amendment then their objections are going to seem patently unreasonable.

For the record, Liberalism and Progressivism are remarkably similar: One says that it wants safety and freedom for all while the other has decided that the way to ensure safety and freedom is to take over everything. I think they are both flawed.

And, yeah, if nobody has ever told you anything about politics and all you hear are newspaper headlines and Jon Daly, you're probably going to be left leaning. That's how culture works.

[SpcGuts]

To be a bit more correct, you should replace Asian with Confucian. Not all of Asia has these societal values, it's mostly East Asia.

The term "Asian Values" is informed by more than just Confucianism which is why the term "Asian Values" more widely used (and generally more correct) than "Confucian Values." It is the term used by some Asian states to excuse their human rights abuses. You are right that not all Asians adhere to the same world view or value system. This can be said about any descriptor of a culture, yet we still need to have such descriptors to have any sort of conversation. The caveat in such discussions is that culture is malleable and permeable and any descriptor is not one size fits all.

[Sledfang]

African-Americans, Hispanics and other minorities are not very ideological. They do not buy into Liberalism or Progressivism the way whites do unless they are well educated.

I wouldn't agree that African-Americans and minorities do not buy into Liberalism or Progressivism, they seem pretty clear and vocal about it. Also the way you mentioned that they do no buy into it like white educated people is a bad sign. It essentially means that minorities don't believe in the ideology for its potential truth, but instead follow which ever group they perceive will give them a special status.

[belfpala]

...that they do no buy into it like white educated people is kind of a bad sign.

I read it differently. He said that whites buy into ideologies, and that others buy into them if educated. You put a view of your own on there.

Edit: Not endorsing either view.

[Screwtape]

I wouldn't agree that African Americans do not buy into Liberalism or Progressivism, they seem pretty clear and vocal about it. Also the way you mentioned that they do no buy into it like white educated people do is kind of a bad sign. It essentially means that African-Americans don't believe in ideology for the sake of truth, but instead follow which ever group they perceive will give them a special status.

The Republicans are (somewhat) Liberal (liberal means free, right?), the Democrats are Progressive. And, no, the major minorities are not invested in Progressivism, even though the top political leaders know the buzzwords. They might be eventually through force of habit, but the reasons I'd list ahead of ideology: strong local political structures, popularity of social programs and a healthy dose of race-baiting. Most people do not acquire ideology through education but through culture. Minorities are not as connected to white culture so they have a more tenuous relationship. The educated ones, of course, may buy in.

[Grummgug]

America is a melting pot.

All races seem to follow the pattern of being immigrants at first that huddle with their own, and then slowly, over time, they merge with the mainline culture (and possibly add some of their own culture to the mainline).

Example: Irish and Italians were not considered "white" 100 years ago. They were mostly viewed as violent thugs unfit to socialize with. They were heavily discriminated against. The whole "Gangs of New York" thing. Even as late as 1960, it was controversial for John F. Kennedy to run for president because he was Irish (and a Catholic on top of that).

During this period, these groups almost exclusively voted democrat, sort of like blacks are a democrat voting bloc today.

Over time, the discrimination ebbed. They became a part of the fabric of mainline American culture. As the discrimination went away, these groups began to shift to the right. The Irish voted almost unanimously for JFK. By 1968, William F. Buckley, who was Irish, emerged as a leader of right-wing thought and helped pull Irish into the GOP. Ronald Reagan, who was Irish, won the white house, and the transformation was complete.

The Irish were no longer discriminated against. They were voting republican in droves. And they were considered "white". The term "white' had been redefined!

Partial Source: page 293 of The Irish Americans: A history

One of the key moves to get the Irish to switch parties was that they strongly opposed abortion. The republican party was willing to trade some of the female vote to grab pretty much all of the Irish vote, so they were quite happy to oppose Roe V. Wade.



http://books.google.com/books?id=q8B...ection&f=false

Of course, the democrats had no choice but to attack Buckley and Reagan and support abortion, all of which broke up the democrat Irish voting bloc and drive the Irish to the GOP.

Over time, this happens to all races. They merge with mainstream culture and shift to the right. The democrats counter is to get different groups of immigrants to support them. Right now, the democrat party is actually in danger of losing the black vote in 20 years because racism against blacks is fading and their culture is becoming mainstream. Blacks will have the money, wealth, power, and acceptance. The next step will be for republicans to start putting blacks in major seats of power in their party and you will see blacks begin to switch parties. The democrats only hope is to gin up hatred between latinos and the rest of America, in the hopes latinos become their new voting bloc.

The democrat party stands for ginning up hatred between races. Make the people fight amongst themselves, stoke the fires of hate, and then pretend to ride in on a white horse as if they can put things right. They want you to buy that charlatan image. When the democrats lose the fight and the hatred goes away, racial groups become republicans.

So what of asians? The thing about asians is that there is simply not enough of them. They get ignored politically. They remain outside of mainstream culture socially. So they gravitate towards a populist message.


[Infracted]

[Screwtape]

I definitely agree that you could describe the Democrats and Republicans as taking on the aspects of "Majority" and "Minority" parties. In some respects, the Republican party exists to fill a negative space left by the Democrats.

Isn't politics fascinating?

[Grummgug]

What the republican party is gonna do is when Rush Limbaugh retires, they will replace him with a black man. His guest host is black as it is. The job of Rush's replacement will be to become to heart and soul of the republican party, espousing conservative politics from a black man's point of view. He will be the Buckley of this generation. Democrats will have to attack him, and the process of blacks becoming a GOP voting bloc will begin.

All of the lies, all of all divisive hate the democrat party spews to try to create separate groups of people, will finally end.

[Tastyfish]

LIberals too far left love segregation, that is why. lol

[dusselldorf]

They make almost $10,000 more then Caucasians on average, have less divorce rates, and many other factors that in theory SHOULD make them vote more Republican, but it's quite the opposite.

Since when does being Republican equal making more money and having lower divorce rates? Check out a map sometime of divorce rate by state and compare it with a map of blue and red states and a map of average incomes.

[Garnier Fructis]

Asian attending top 20 world university (according to new US News ranking) here. Why am I not Republican?

Reasons:
- Climate Change
- Evangelicals
- Gay Marriage
- Voter Disenfranchisement
- Climate Change
- Abortion
- Lamar Smith attacking the NSF
- Government Shutdown
- Climate Change
- EPA
- Tea Party

Really has little to do with me being Asian and more to do with just learning that the (R) Koolaid I was drinking for most of my childhood was filled with bullshit.

[SL1200]

Too smart to vote republican. /thread