Ideas to imrpove the hunter class

[Deleted]

I'll be talking from a purely PvE perspective:

I believe that currently there's very little to no interaction with our secondary stats. On top of that mm's rotation is rather boring and simplistic and sv just seems unfinished. To fix these problems i propose a few changes:

MM: Turn kill shot into a normal ability with a cd( and make it so that it no longer resets the cd if it doesn't kill the target), increase its damage and cd and make it so that it actively interacts with crit chance by making critical aimed shots and chimaera shots reduce its cd by 1-2 seconds. This would make its rotation a bit more engaging and give the spec a bit more burst on demand without having to rely on a 2 min cd. I believe all of this would further express its identity.

BM: Currently there is NO interaction whatsoever with our secondary stats. Its rotation is fun though and it has enough abilities to make it engaging. However we can improve the spec by changing its mastery from a passive increase in pet damage to an increase in damage and attack speed. That extra attack speed would make it so that we'd use focus fire more often but more importantly it'd make it so that the pet passive which grants us 20 focus would proc more often as we get more mastery thus making the spec interact much more interestingly with its supposed "primary" secondary stat which is currently lackluster.

SV: This spec is in a BAD state and needs both to interact with its secondary stats and an ability. We can fix both in 1 strike by giving it a new CD "Serpent Venom" . This new ability would work with charges and you would have a 20% chance to gain 1 charge upon multistriking with ES or AS up to a maximum of 5 charges. The damage itself should be around 3 times the damage of Serpent Sting. This new ability would futher express the identity of the SV spec and it would also accomplish the feat of making it a potent multi dotting spec which i believe is what SV is all about.

[Arcanimus]

While I agree that all 3 specs are flawed, I don't agree with your proposed changes.

MM really only lacks a proc. Make autoshot crits have a chance to allow a single use of Kill Shot above 35%, and reset the cooldown below 35%, solving that issue.

BM only truly lacks interaction with Multistrike. Make Basic Attacks' multistrikes have an increased chance to proc Frenzy, and this is solved.

SV is where the tuning is needed most: It needs haste scaling on its DoTs, an increase to the value of Mastery (although a new mastery wouldn't be objectionable at this point), could use mechanical tweaking allowing actual scaling with gear (aka Black Arrow/LnL), and needs a real niche of its own to fill. They claim it's a DoT spec, but it has 1 spammable DoT with a prohibitive cost, one DoT with a cooldown limiting uptime, and a lackluster signature ability that doesn't even properly scale with weapon damage.

Survival doesn't need a cooldown. It needs its own identity and an overhaul.

[stratocaster]

I really don't see the problem with the mechanics of SV. I might be speaking for myself, but I think SV is by far the most enjoyable spec to play. Screw the traps, just give ES a bit more bite, or something.

[Deleted]

While I agree that all 3 specs are flawed, I don't agree with your proposed changes.

MM really only lacks a proc. Make autoshot crits have a chance to allow a single use of Kill Shot above 35%, and reset the cooldown below 35%, solving that issue.

BM only truly lacks interaction with Multistrike. Make Basic Attacks' multistrikes have an increased chance to proc Frenzy, and this is solved.

SV is where the tuning is needed most: It needs haste scaling on its DoTs, an increase to the value of Mastery (although a new mastery wouldn't be objectionable at this point), could use mechanical tweaking allowing actual scaling with gear (aka Black Arrow/LnL), and needs a real niche of its own to fill. They claim it's a DoT spec, but it has 1 spammable DoT with a prohibitive cost, one DoT with a cooldown limiting uptime, and a lackluster signature ability that doesn't even properly scale with weapon damage.

Survival doesn't need a cooldown. It needs its own identity and an overhaul.

Making it so autoshot crits have a chance to allow a single use of KS is too passive. With my proposed change you actually have a bit of control over the cd of KS, it would be a LOT more engaging.

Your change is just a slightly different way of having higher uptime with focus fire. While my idea also accomplished that, it also gave mastery more value because of the impact it has on the invigoration talent. BM should be all about mastery( and even blizzard acknowledges that). With my change it might finally be better that crit and it would also have an impact on your rotation as you get better gear.

As for sv i agree that it needs an overhaul but i doubt they'll ever do that. My change would however be in line with what sv is all about: venom, traps and explosives. After implementing my change all they'd have to do is rework the traps.

[Arcanimus]

Your change is just a slightly different way of having higher uptime with focus fire. While my idea also accomplished that, it also gave mastery more value because of the impact it has on the invigoration talent. BM should be all about mastery( and even blizzard acknowledges that). With my change it might finally be better that crit and it would also have an impact on your rotation as you get better gear.

You don't seem to realize that changing the mastery from pet damage to pet attack speed will devalue haste substantially, while providing little meaningful increase.
Part of the value of crit right now is due to Invigoration, restoring focus to the pet on autoshot, which by itself inherently increases the value of haste (more autoshots, more chance to crit and restore focus, which in turn has amazing synergy with the current mastery (more pet attacks doing more damage). Increasing the uptime of Focus Fire via my proposed multistrike change will give a meaningful interaction with the stat without flat out devaluing another.

As for the rotational impact, it would have one yes, but a negative one: There would be a point of diminishing returns in which both Haste and Mastery have so low a value that you can't justifiably continue using them on your gear, due to your pet being continually GCD locked and focus capped, providing minimal benefit from both stats, as any increase in them will only marginally increase the number of pet autoattacks, and make it potentially a DPS loss to use Focus Fire, even with the increased attack power factored in.

As for Survival: Blizzard has just finished pruning about 60% of our spellbook, do you really think they're gonna go and add a new button so quickly?

[stratocaster]

I'm surprised that you actually want to make so drastic changes to a class, and we haven't been able to play it at level 100 yet. Just sit tight, and wait till we got T17 gear and raiding Highmaul, or roll another class.

[Karon]

My Idea to improve Hunters:

Lable everything as Hunteritem.

...wait.

[Arcanimus]

haven't been able to play it at level 100 yet.

Speak for yourself.

[Spl4sh3r]

I like how you are talking about secondary stats when we don't really have access to all secondary stats on gear yet. For example Survival is heavily based on Multistrike with our new passive and even the Draenor tier gives bonus to Multistrike. However we only have access to it from one trinket (Shamans in SoO) and a 5% buff, not seen anything else that gives it before expansion.

With that said I still like Survival the most. Four DoTs and Cobra is all I need to focus on. Arcane Shot (which gives Serpent Sting), Black Arrow, Explosive Shot and Explosive Trap. I forsee our damage going up a lot once we gain access to more Multistrike.

[Arcanimus]

I like how you are talking about secondary stats when we don't really have access to all secondary stats on gear yet. For example Survival is heavily based on Multistrike with our new passive and even the Draenor tier gives bonus to Multistrike. However we only have access to it from one trinket (Shamans in SoO) and a 5% buff, not seen anything else that gives it before expansion.

With that said I still like Survival the most. Four DoTs and Cobra is all I need to focus on. Arcane Shot (which gives Serpent Sting), Black Arrow, Explosive Shot and Explosive Trap. I forsee our damage going up a lot once we gain access to more Multistrike.

Except it doesnt go up a lot. It does go up, but a substantial amount less than our other specs, and an even greater amount when compared to other classes. Don't jump to conclusions about not having played level 100 yet. I've had beta since the second wave ffs.

[stratocaster]

Speak for yourself.

Yes, I normally speak for myself, but at this specific topic I'm speaking for all of us who hasn't played on beta/PTR.

[Arcanimus]

Yes, I normally speak for myself, but at this specific topic I'm speaking for all of us who hasn't played on beta/PTR.

My suggested changes are made with the perspective of someone who has played at 100. I'd suggest looking into the sims if you haven't had a chance to play directly. Survival is lacking. Sorely.

[stratocaster]

My suggested changes are made with the perspective of someone who has played at 100. I'd suggest looking into the sims if you haven't had a chance to play directly. Survival is lacking. Sorely.

This? http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html

Survival is in the mid. Don't see the problem TBH.

This is only me who speaks, and I still don't understand why someone wants to make drastic changes to all 3 specs at this point. I also like the "rotation" and playstyle of the SV as of 6.0.X

[Arcanimus]

This? http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html

Survival is in the mid. Don't see the problem TBH.

This is only me who speaks, and I still don't understand why someone wants to make drastic changes to all 3 specs at this point. I also like the "rotation" and playstyle of the SV as of 6.0.X

I know exactly why: they still haven't adjusted to the loss of so many abilities, and want something to cope.

I didn't mean just numerically. I meant mechanically. With a fixed proc chance on Lock and Load, no weapon damage scaling on the vast majority of its damage output, and abysmal scaling with haste and mastery, its asking for serious trouble in later tiers.

Also, I'm fairly certain that the front page listing is using an overly scaled stampede (live version was unaffected by the buff to pets for some reason) and using Dire Beast (which according to conventional knowledge is worse off than SF)

[stratocaster]

Well, if you mean the loss of Rapid Fire and Kill Shot is loss of many abilities, I agree with you.

[Arcanimus]

Well, if you mean the loss of Rapid Fire and Kill Shot is loss of many abilities, I agree with you.

Rapid Fire wasn't a major DPS increase for Survival, and Kill Shot goes at odds with the mastery. It's not as huge a loss as people are making it out to be.

[Xyphan]

I honestly liked the idea of the LnL stacks. While having it scale off of multistrike would have made it very hard to keep balanced over time, I'd have loved them to keep the stack feature and just make it a flat % on each tick of black arrow. In that case, you could save up stacks of LnL for lots of burst, or simply use them as they come in. To address the focus concerns that the original LnL stack version had, they could simply keep that it makes explosive shot free or have LnL bring it down to 5 focus cost, so you still have a bit of planning to do if you want to spam it.

Granted I seem to enjoy proc based specs more than rotational based ones as I feel they add more variety to the play style. That said, it would definitely change the feel of survival compared to the other specs.

[stratocaster]

This just derived from the WoD Beta thread, this is my suggestion of improving the class/specs

BM : leave as it is

MM/SV : Should get a passive ability from lvl 15 (or something) : "Lonely wolf" - while your pet is dismissed, your damage is increased by 30% (or something which is more or less identical to the pet dmg in patchwerk style fight)

And replace Lone Wolf to something else from the last talent tier.