How come i never see guilds asking specifically for ret paladins?

[Puri]

Sure they might skyrocket a certain patch with greater dps than other but in general these hybrids are mediocre.

Fixed it for you.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Ret DPS is anything but bad come WoD. (assuming no nerfs happen)

ST is completely average (meaning perfectly viable- balanced)
2-3 target cleave is the worst in the game.
AoE burst is among the worst in the game.
AoE sustained is "on average" good but RNG will produce wildly different numbers from pull to pull and ret to ret.

On top of that we lost our raid CD while Mages got one (rogues, dks and warriors didn't lose theirs), simple fact of the matter is that there's 3 melee classes better suited for raid stacking than rets and another 2 ranged classes (hunters and mages) that can also take our spot.

That said my guild has been running with 2 rets for 2 years now, I don't think we'll go down to 1 per raid but considering that we bring significantly less to raids than we used to it's a worry I have.

[Zylos]

Well, ret pallies provide some more utility now, for example double Sacrifice with glyph and off gcd. People just don't see that stuff yet.

This isn't specific to ret so this doesn't support having a ret paladin at all. In fact if anything the existence of Clemency creates less of a need for more paladins since 1 paladin can do the work of what would be 2 without the talent.

[Curulan]

If you want to be in demand as a paladin, but still want to keep Ret as (one of) your main spec(s), you should also learn Protection or Holy. Every raid team needs a good tank and healers. DPS is DPS and there's always going to be a larger pool of those to choose from. Those are just the statistics of the game.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you want to be in demand as a paladin, but still want to keep Ret as (one of) your main spec(s), you should also learn Protection or Holy. Every raid team needs a good tank and healers. DPS is DPS and there's always going to be a larger pool of those to choose from. Those are just the statistics of the game.

Once you go holy/prot, you step on the rough road, which is hard to forfeit.

[Deleted]

ST is completely average (meaning perfectly viable- balanced)
2-3 target cleave is the worst in the game.
AoE burst is among the worst in the game.
AoE sustained is "on average" good but RNG will produce wildly different numbers from pull to pull and ret to ret.

Stop. You are telling this already in the other ret threads and its simply not true.
>male draenei
lmao why am i not surprised

[thegoodrogue]

Stop. You are telling this already in the other ret threads and its simply not true.
>male draenei
lmao why am i not surprised

He's not too far off, it's just class design bud

[Regen]

Midwinter was recruiting one specifically a week or so ago. Saw that on their twitter I believe. It happens, just not often.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Stop. You are telling this already in the other ret threads and its simply not true.
>male draenei
lmao why am i not surprised

Yes I might be a bit too negative but our design severely lacks 2-3 target cleave, our AoE burst or on demand AoE isn't there and our sustained AoE is very prone to RNG. Some like that, I don't- because Divine Storm is tied to 2 procs (EmpDS and DP, talent) the raw damage DS does has to be kept under control and because of that DS is insanely weak for cleaving compared to what it could be if it didn't have so many effects tied into the ability. They could also give us Consecration back- even as a talent (replace for Light's Hammer) to give us better sustained cleave and aoe that isn't tied down by RNG and ability/holy power, that's the main issue of Ret.
Numbers can be tuned but (imo) it's a tough task for blizzard to balance DS with all the mechanics that follow/impact it, it's kinda the same deal with Templar's Verdict- it doesn't hit for a lot and doesn't feel like a finisher but because of DP and more importantly Holy Avenger it can't hit to the levels of Mortal Strike because that would mean we'd blow people up in pvp.

Also what does me being male draenei got to do with anything? Draenei is the best alliance race to start WoD with, dwarf potentially better at the last third of the expansion.

[Gungnir]

it's kinda the same deal with Templar's Verdict- it doesn't hit for a lot and doesn't feel like a finisher but because of DP and more importantly Holy Avenger it can't hit to the levels of Mortal Strike because that would mean we'd blow people up in pvp.

This is one of the few things that really bums me out with MoP Ret.
TV is supposed to be our big strong finisher but it's just severely lackluster due to just that fact. Hell, even with how dull Cata Ret was, I actually preferred that since TV hit like a mac truck.

[Deleted]

In a 20 man Mythic scenario(which is what guilds are ultimately recruiting for), its really hard to find a raid spot as a Ret Paladin. Ret shares most of its utility with the most dominant tank class in last 4 expansions history(wotlk/cata/mop/wod) - Protection Paladin. It also shares loot with DKs and Warriors(and those really aren't classes you wanna share loot with, I mean the only class worse to share loot with are Warlocks(and Paladins share conq tokens with those)). Also, the class does average dps.

[nyxtyr]

We did during firelands and now we have two very solid ret paladins and a few as backups

[Pull My Finger]

I think it's probably a certain stigma they still have attatched to them, to an extent. People are veery, very slow with that kind of thing.

I still remember the gifs and memes from 2007, the whole "retardin" thing.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

In a 20 man Mythic scenario(which is what guilds are ultimately recruiting for), its really hard to find a raid spot as a Ret Paladin. Ret shares most of its utility with the most dominant tank class in last 4 expansions history(wotlk/cata/mop/wod) - Protection Paladin. It also shares loot with DKs and Warriors(and those really aren't classes you wanna share loot with, I mean the only class worse to share loot with are Warlocks(and Paladins share conq tokens with those)). Also, the class does average dps.

Because of the new loot system Ret paladins share loot with All plate users- including tanks, exception is jewlery, cloaks (iirc), trinkets and weps.

[Deleted]

Because of the new loot system Ret paladins share loot with All plate users- including tanks, exception is jewlery, cloaks (iirc), trinkets and weps.

Tanks aren't exactly priority geared though.

[Tastyfish]

Cause a holy Pally will go ret if you need them too? Why ask for DPS when you can get a combo of that and something higher value?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Tanks aren't exactly priority geared though.

Gearing up completely depends on your guild and so on.

[Bizerk]

Cause a holy Pally will go ret if you need them too? Why ask for DPS when you can get a combo of that and something higher value?

Yeah this doesn't happen unless you are doing casual raiding.

[lunchbox2042]

Well, ret pallies provide some more utility now, for example double Sacrifice with glyph and off gcd. People just don't see that stuff yet.

Also, I noticed guilds recruit "ranged dps" or "melee dps". Because it's better to find 3 good ret paladins rather than 2 good ret paladins and 1 bad death knight, just for the sake of class balance in the raid.

Everything that a Ret Paladin brings to the raid is brought by a Prot or Holy Paladin.

[Deleted]

The same reason why nobody wants them in arena and rbg - they arent ranged.