Leveling in Draenor (Enhancement)

[Baane]

So as a member of a decent raiding guild ill be rushing to a 100 . Question is will we be going for haste whilst we won't be in combat with a single target for longer than a couple seconds.... if so do we go for the traditional agility >mastery > haste > crit ? And what trinkets would u go for if you've got access to 3 of the main trinkets . Would u still go for Primal elemental aswell or switch to Unleash ?

[Extremely Vile]

Our stat priority is Agi > Multistrike > Haste to 50% > Crit = Mastery > Versatility > Haste after 50%


You only need to follow this once you're actually gearing for raids. Hit 100 first, worry about it then.

[Nitwit]

Our stat priority is Agi > Multistrike > Haste to 50% > Crit = Mastery > Versatility > Haste after 50%

Those are level 90 patchwerk statweights, and the main reason multistrike is so high there is because it doesn't exist on gear other than the one trinket slot. It's not what we'll be following at level 100, or while leveling, really.

[nazrakin]

Those are level 90 patchwerk statweights, and the main reason multistrike is so high there is because it doesn't exist on gear other than the one trinket slot. It's not what we'll be following at level 100, or while leveling, really.

So what are we looking at come 100?

AGI> Haste to 50 > Mastery > Multistrike > Crit/Versatility?

[Professor Expert]

Agi may not be the best stat to go for when your gear level is below 600. Remember it's 1/2 as good as it used to be because 1 AGI = 1 AP, whereas before it was 1 AGI = 2 AP. If you gem for AGI you'll get 10, but with a secondary stat you'll get 20 (assuming a single stat gem).

Prior to 6.0 I discovered that bumping up haste really made the shaman shine in both pvp and pve. Yes, I lost some burst but I'd say the sustained damage more than makes up for it. I'd recommend crit to 30%, mastery to 50% and then from that point focus on getting haste up as high as you go. I'm right around 40% in 550 pvp gear with all gems haste or haste/something. Due to the way flurry works you're generally better off with ancestral swiftness (5% haste + 5% attack speed) than echo of the elements...and elemental blast is no longer worthwhile compared to unleashed fury on the 90 tier.

Another "surprise" that you may discover is that going with double elemental force enchants on your weapons surprisingly close to double dancing steel. Again, due to AGI being devalued (as have all primary stats for all classes INT and STR). Perhaps over a long fight the dancing steel will outpace elemental force, but for leveling you'll probably find that the extra "burst" you get with EF is superior, because you'd need both dancing steel procs to be active for it to be better than a single EF proc.

[Last Starfighter]

Our stat priority is Agi > Multistrike > Haste to 50% > Crit = Mastery > Versatility > Haste after 50%


You only need to follow this once you're actually gearing for raids. Hit 100 first, worry about it then.

I thought thresholds were gone why would 50% haste be a target?

[Deleted]

I thought thresholds were gone why would 50% haste be a target?

Because thats where GCDs stop benefitting from haste, while the spell CDs still does, it makes it harder and harder above 50% to using spells whenever available.

[Sengiratolom]

beyond 50% it simmed to way less beneficial as it would result in even more lost procs due to them overwriting each other, now if your reaction times and feel of the class aren't as sound as the sim (very likely) going even lower on haste might be worth it (try simming it with your average ms delay and response time)

[Seezer]

Because thats where GCDs stop benefitting from haste, while the spell CDs still does, it makes it harder and harder above 50% to using spells whenever available.

Then why would they make a classes stat attunement haste? Seems like a huge waste.

[Deleted]

Then why would they make a classes stat attunement haste? Seems like a huge waste.

50% is a huge stat investment as it is, especially with many more stats to balance in WoD. Remember that each stat is made stronger by every other stat. The best way to optimise has almost NEVER been to exclusively pump one stat regardless of others.

[Hotto Pantsu]

Agi may not be the best stat to go for when your gear level is below 600. Remember it's 1/2 as good as it used to be because 1 AGI = 1 AP, whereas before it was 1 AGI = 2 AP. If you gem for AGI you'll get 10, but with a secondary stat you'll get 20 (assuming a single stat gem).

Prior to 6.0 I discovered that bumping up haste really made the shaman shine in both pvp and pve. Yes, I lost some burst but I'd say the sustained damage more than makes up for it. I'd recommend crit to 30%, mastery to 50% and then from that point focus on getting haste up as high as you go. I'm right around 40% in 550 pvp gear with all gems haste or haste/something. Due to the way flurry works you're generally better off with ancestral swiftness (5% haste + 5% attack speed) than echo of the elements...and elemental blast is no longer worthwhile compared to unleashed fury on the 90 tier.

Another "surprise" that you may discover is that going with double elemental force enchants on your weapons surprisingly close to double dancing steel. Again, due to AGI being devalued (as have all primary stats for all classes INT and STR). Perhaps over a long fight the dancing steel will outpace elemental force, but for leveling you'll probably find that the extra "burst" you get with EF is superior, because you'd need both dancing steel procs to be active for it to be better than a single EF proc.

Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2). All other sources of Attack Power now grant half as much as before.
Attack Power now increases Weapon Damage at a rate of 1 DPS per 3.5 Attack Power (up from 1 DPS per 14 Attack Power).

Seems to me agi is now twice as good?

[Professor Expert]

Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2). All other sources of Attack Power now grant half as much as before.
Attack Power now increases Weapon Damage at a rate of 1 DPS per 3.5 Attack Power (up from 1 DPS per 14 Attack Power).

Seems to me agi is now twice as good?

It's actually all the same...

Primary stats grant half as much AP as they did before.
Any gem or enchant that gave a primary stat was also halved.
At 3.5 AP for 1 DPS increase, it is exactly the same rate of scaling - but you're getting much less of the stat per unit.

14 / 2 = 7
7 / 2 = 3.5

If you gem for all AGI where possible in your pvp gear, following socket color and not just going for all red gems:

Helm - 14 agi / 3% crit + 10 agi = 24 agi
Shoulder - 5 agi / 10 mastery = 5 agi
Chest - 10 agi + 5 agi / 10 mastery = 15 agi
Gloves - 5 agi / 10 crit = 5 agi
Belt - 5 agi / 10 crit + 10 agi = 15 agi
Legs - 10 agi + 5 agi / 10 crit = 15 agi
Feet - 5 agi / 10 mastery = 5 agi

Total AGI from gems = 84 = (84 / 3.5) = 24 DPS (roughly 10% more base damage)

Let's say you chose haste instead of AGI. You get 168 haste which yields about 10% increase in attack speed, GCD reduction and casting speed. It's roughly the same basic increase in damage (10%) for auto-attack damage, but you may realize better utility in being able to cast faster as well as having shorter CDs and GCDs. You may also consider that you get a 5% boost in haste from all sources, so 10% from gems is like 10.5% because of lightning strikes.

Also look at 84 AGI = 84 Spell Power, and our spells use a percentage of our SP...so if LB uses like 40% of our SP, that 84 AGI is only giving LB another 34 damage while 168 mastery (from gems) would be about 10% more mastery, or roughly 210 more damage from LB (LB is 2,100 damage base for me in 550 pvp gear).

So while stacking a stat via gems tends to yield 10% more, the question is 10% more of what. I think the net damage is going to be roughly the same over time.

[Rosh]

I think he was speaking about while leveling. what would be the better stat. not at lvl 100

[Protoman]

I'm not sure if current stat priorities are totally accurate.... like multistrike is apparently not great for us because we don't get any bonus benefits like an attack that procs another attack (for example, ret's templar verdict proc a free divine storm makes multistrike good for them, but we have no similar procs). And haste to 50% seems to be a general rule based on what ret's previous priority was with haste... but I think it may depend on just how much CD reduction we need, if we end up being close to gcd capped with CD's readily available without needing 50% haste (esp wtih talents like echo of elements) then we may not need 50%. Mastery will still be good, but unfortunetly Ascendance doesn't benefit from it anymore which really sucks. Lastly, versatility... not too sure as this just seems like a passive bonus to damage much like agility.

Will def need some more testing in the future to really know for sure. Its unfortunate that they took reforge away also, so we can't tweak our stats right away and have to just rely on the stats we get on gear.

[nazrakin]

It's actually all the same...

Primary stats grant half as much AP as they did before.
Any gem or enchant that gave a primary stat was also halved.
At 3.5 AP for 1 DPS increase, it is exactly the same rate of scaling - but you're getting much less of the stat per unit.

14 / 2 = 7
7 / 2 = 3.5

If you gem for all AGI where possible in your pvp gear, following socket color and not just going for all red gems:

Helm - 14 agi / 3% crit + 10 agi = 24 agi
Shoulder - 5 agi / 10 mastery = 5 agi
Chest - 10 agi + 5 agi / 10 mastery = 15 agi
Gloves - 5 agi / 10 crit = 5 agi
Belt - 5 agi / 10 crit + 10 agi = 15 agi
Legs - 10 agi + 5 agi / 10 crit = 15 agi
Feet - 5 agi / 10 mastery = 5 agi

Total AGI from gems = 84 = (84 / 3.5) = 24 DPS (roughly 10% more base damage)

Let's say you chose haste instead of AGI. You get 168 haste which yields about 10% increase in attack speed, GCD reduction and casting speed. It's roughly the same basic increase in damage (10%) for auto-attack damage, but you may realize better utility in being able to cast faster as well as having shorter CDs and GCDs. You may also consider that you get a 5% boost in haste from all sources, so 10% from gems is like 10.5% because of lightning strikes.

Also look at 84 AGI = 84 Spell Power, and our spells use a percentage of our SP...so if LB uses like 40% of our SP, that 84 AGI is only giving LB another 34 damage while 168 mastery (from gems) would be about 10% more mastery, or roughly 210 more damage from LB (LB is 2,100 damage base for me in 550 pvp gear).

So while stacking a stat via gems tends to yield 10% more, the question is 10% more of what. I think the net damage is going to be roughly the same over time.

Are you accounting for the harsh secondary stat scaling post 90? For instance, you only need 20 haste for 1% at lvl 90, but by 93 you need over twice as much (44) for the same 1%.

[Professor Expert]

Are you accounting for the harsh secondary stat scaling post 90? For instance, you only need 20 haste for 1% at lvl 90, but by 93 you need over twice as much (44) for the same 1%.

True, and at that point you may get better mileage stacking primary stats. I still think that regardless of scaling, the net gain is going to be roughly the same regardless of whether you go for a primary or secondary stat in terms of DPS potential. The thing you may want to tune for is whether your class gains additional benefits from a secondary stat...like enh shaman gain shorter CDs from haste, which is a "bonus" benefit in addition to the global benefits of a faster casting/attack speed and shortened GCDs.