Destro is Fine at Level !00

[Dastey]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e-done&boss=-2

This is all the boss fights combined (keep in mind the priest at the bottom was disc last fight). The warlock actually got out DPSd by a tank. That jjust makes me sad

[Shiekyerbooty]

I think Demo is in a terrible spot right now, hopefully it's true that they are tuned for 90, but even -so, that doesn't explain the 30% Demonbolt nerf. For instance, even if you gave the Midwinter Demo Lock a 20% buff across the board, he'd still only be doing 23.5k as compared to the Feral Druid's 31k.

It actually looked like there was good opportunity for Destro Locks however. Lots of adds, lots of havoc uses, RoF, and ember generating opportunities. Even a few spots where I'd like to try that F&B'd chaos bolt. Would want to look at the meters though, I still hate the feel of mobility and I don't want to have to work my ass off if I'm still going to be a liability.

well, I'll be darned...

https://mobile.twitter.com/MethodQuy...506240/photo/1

[Baconeggcheese]

not to bash on midwinter but... I'd much rather see how methods locks did vs midwinters.

Sparkuggz specifically if he's still there n stuff (haven't checked).

[Rtrain]

not to bash on midwinter but... I'd much rather see how methods locks did vs midwinters.

Sparkuggz specifically if he's still there n stuff (haven't checked).

His name is doggz.

I'm sure they used the Warlocks pad on transmission adds strat for Imperator, which means that meter doesn't mean much.(Other then destro aoeing competes with mages' single target)

[Durantye]

It was ridiculous how good locks were in mop. Ridiculous. Anyone that says otherwise is lying or delusioned. It isn't that locks are bad now. It's that they've fallen so far from being so incredibly OP. They aren't a DPS class. They have massive amounts of utility, including a tanking pet, summons, and self heals. I played one, I know. Power needs to be sacrificed to account for that kind of thing.

Completely ignorant statement, the only point where warlocks even had 1 spec above everything else was 5.4 with affliction having a missed quirk with soul swap.

[Uoyredrum]

So if we aren't a DPS class, how come I can't tank anymore?

Anyone with some degree of sanity knows the class needed to be toned down somewhat. Nobody is asking for us to be as OP as we were in SoO.

Also I couldn't help but just laugh my ass off at the reasons spells were removed: Curses were removed even though they were a trademark of the Warlock class, Fel Flame was removed due to lack of feedback (OF COURSE YOU WOULD HAVE NO FEEDBACK ON THAT SPELL WHEN A TALENT THAT HAS BEEN CURB STOMPED INTO NOTHING MADE IT USELESS), yet we have Healthstones (balanced to mediocrity) and Life Tap (complicated).

Life Tap is complicated? lolwut

[Graeham]

I'm bored of Destruction. I don't really like it but it feels a lot less clunky than Affliction/Demonology so I stick with it regardless.

[Dastey]

I think Blizzard is going at this completely wrong.

Warlocks were NOT overpowered in MoP in terms of single target damage. The problem was our Cleave / AoE damage, that was ridicoulessly overpowered.
What is the solution to fix that? Nerf our single target damage and in the process of that also nerfing our Cleave and AoE damage.
They should obviously have thought about what made warlocks insanely strong and said "Ok lets nerf Havoc and Fire and Brimstone" leaving our single target where it was, as it was pretty balanced.

[Durantye]

I think Blizzard is going at this completely wrong.

Warlocks were NOT overpowered in MoP in terms of single target damage. The problem was our Cleave / AoE damage, that was ridicoulessly overpowered.
What is the solution to fix that? Nerf our single target damage and in the process of that also nerfing our Cleave and AoE damage.
They should obviously have thought about what made warlocks insanely strong and said "Ok lets nerf Havoc and Fire and Brimstone" leaving our single target where it was, as it was pretty balanced.

Our aoe and cleave was very strong but still far from insane, as I said affi is a major outstander, destro fnb while extremely strong realistically in a real raid where things don't live for extraordinarily long times, beast cleave, bladestorm, even arcane explosion, and not to mention combustion spread are just as strong if not in some cases stronger (lava beam). In 5.1 we were very strong on multi target but that was really our only call to grace as cleave with the newly strong frost mage and arcane mage were very close and dominated single target. in 5.2 Demo though very strong still lost out to fire mages in ST and cleave fights usually were neck and neck, and that is without fire mages using a gimmicky trinket or a bug (soul swap bug that lasted a little bit in 5.2), in 5.4 destro gets way way over examined in it's power because it is very competitive but has many tools to gimmick that don't require much rng so in raids that weren't very skilled a warlock could gimmick things that their fire mage wasn't good enough to gimmick and he'd get hate for it despite it simply being his raid's skill being low not his class being broken.

As I said affi in 5.4 is an outstanding outlier that was completely retarded of blizzard to overlook. This was also our only tier where we legitimately held the top spot (sorry for ending your 6+ tier streak mages).

[Deleted]

well, i wouldnt say afflic was blatantly OP, it was more of a combination of insane pull dps and shorter fights along with snapshotting and soul swap that helped them and that was mainly when everything was on farm, if you look at progression kills then you'd see a different picture.

[cabana]

not going to lie midwinter's locks aren't really good in general, would prefer to see method's

[Durantye]

well, i wouldnt say afflic was blatantly OP, it was more of a combination of insane pull dps and shorter fights along with snapshotting and soul swap that helped them and that was mainly when everything was on farm, if you look at progression kills then you'd see a different picture.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...4/180/default/

:P Afflic was* blatantly OP, it just took people a while to fully realize it, actually for single target affi started 5.4 at 1m burst till they got a quick nerf

[Gaidax]

As long as there are adds or AoE, I am pretty sure Destruction will be great especially with the extra cheesing with lvl 100 talents and less CD on Havoc.

Single Target? Was never really a thing for Destruction Warlock.

In short I am confident that Destruction is indeed going to be fine at 100, although it needs RoF to be adjusted again to not be worth casting single target, increase it's Mana Cost and then bump incinerate by 10-15% and reduce Charred Remains penalty by 10% as well and it should be okay.

But anyway, should be okay IMO, as long as you can find your Havoc/F&B button and use them at the right time.

[Durantye]

As long as there are adds or AoE, I am pretty sure Destruction will be great especially with the extra cheesing with lvl 100 talents and less CD on Havoc.

Single Target? Was never really a thing for Destruction Warlock.

In short I am confident that Destruction is indeed going to be fine at 100, although it needs RoF to be adjusted again to not be worth casting single target, increase it's Mana Cost and then bump incinerate by 10-15% and reduce Charred Remains penalty by 10% as well and it should be okay.

But anyway, should be okay IMO, as long as you can find your Havoc/F&B button and use them at the right time.

Destro is fine right now, not sure why everyone thinks destro is so underpowered atm O.o

[Gihelle]

Life Tap is complicated? lolwut

Well not in MoP but it certainly takes some using to get the most usage out of it without annoying your healers too much.

Life Tap is also a dated mechanic in a world where every other caster (and even 1 of our specs) don't have to worry about mana at all, unless you play impossibly badly.

And yeah, I have to admit I dismissed Midwinter's warlock the second I saw he was Demonology, since it's in a really bad shape right now. Not to mention how badly they handled the Imperator fight.

[Number1gentleman]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e-done&boss=-2

This is all the boss fights combined (keep in mind the priest at the bottom was disc last fight). The warlock actually got out DPSd by a tank. That jjust makes me sad

I'm looking at twin ogron log http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e-done&fight=6
I see that the gladiator warrior (#7) has 10 ilvl less than the others, but he's doing good damage.. even better than the warlock.

[Deleted]

This is the damage meter from a screencap posted by Sparkugzz on his twitter. I believe it is Imperator Mar'gok



Complete potato quality but at least shows the damage. I believe both the locks were playing destro.

Maybe someone can get a better quality one to show the actual numbers?

[Gihelle]

Not surprising, lots of cleaving to be had on Mar'gok I imagine the demo lock is the one not showing (they had 3).

Just surprising to see warriors that low.

EDIT: "no class specific questions" on the Q&A... yeah, there goes my interest.

[Durantye]

I'm looking at twin ogron log http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e-done&fight=6
I see that the gladiator warrior (#7) has 10 ilvl less than the others, but he's doing good damage.. even better than the warlock.

Their ilvls are scaled, if he has lower ilvl that is an issue.

[Deleted]

Yeah they would all have been about 670 ilvl.