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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    There are a couple big differences between this spreadsheet and Simcraft.

    1) Simcraft uses a stochastic (multiple iterations) simulation to produce it's results. Basically this means it it running a preset priority script against random events like trinket procs, combo breaker procs, and if you want to you can program the priority script to react and play they way you want it to. The default priority list does a pretty good job of playing a windwalker, but in my opinion it knows too much and plays too smart, which is partially the reason why I made this spreadsheet.

    2) This spreadsheet is a "typical minute" of our rotation meaning it takes an average look at our rotation. Random events are normalized to a per minute basis. This spreadsheet makes the assumption that the player is reacting to random events like Combo Breaker and optimizing their talents and up times accordingly.

    I do my best to optimize Tigereye Brew for use during Fists of Fury, but it doesn't do a spectacular job. Determining the value of when to use TEB (Tiger Strikes? Trinkets? Fists of Fury?) would be a better job for Simcraft. I'm also not modeling things like Bloodlust or short term performance enhancing raid buffs.

    As for why the Agility stat values are different from Simcraft, I would ask Hinalover that question. Maybe we can figure out the discrepancy, but I would say that it has something to do with the how Simcraft has the ability to stack cooldowns, and so incremental agility might be more valuable in those situations.

    I'm calculating the value of Agility as DPS(Agility +1) - DPS(Agility) as I am all my incremental stat weights. My stat weights correlate pretty well to what SimC says, but the scales are different.
    You must pardon me if my following question makes me sound like an illiterate, but, what does this mean for a user like me - Is SimC more "accurate" than the spreadsheet or are they two completely different beasts? I want to optimize, where do I turn to?

  2. #42

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    10char
    :c Okay

    Guess I'll be using both and check which ones reflect my real performance the best

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by athanasios View Post
    You must pardon me if my following question makes me sound like an illiterate, but, what does this mean for a user like me - Is SimC more "accurate" than the spreadsheet or are they two completely different beasts? I want to optimize, where do I turn to?
    Reread the text that you quoted, as that already answers the question you're asking. To restate what Rotund said, SimC and Rotund's spreadsheet calculate what happens in different ways for different events. They are both accurate for what they describe. What's more important than the stat weights given by either tool is the stat priorities that each give. These priorities are usually similar, if not congruent, which is a good indication that the stat priorities given by both are correct.

  5. #45

  6. #46
    Updated the Mark of the Shattered Hand enchant.

    Initial damage can MS/Crit
    Bleed can MS

    Tested on a dummy and the RPPM is per enchant, so having this makes dual wielding pull ahead significantly.

  7. #47
    Deleted
    How does the MotSH apply to cleave fights such as Twins, Brackenspore and Tectus?

    Does anything change from what Hina posted earlier orrrrrr?

  8. #48
    Updated with stat weights for Main Hand and Off Hand weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeeAbe View Post
    How does the MotSH apply to cleave fights such as Twins, Brackenspore and Tectus?

    Does anything change from what Hina posted earlier orrrrrr?
    Mark of the Shattered hand does not scale very well with AOE since it's RPPM based; you might get a better distribution of bleeds and not have them be overwritten on the same target but it's strongest against single target. It also doesn't scale on fights where you have SEF clones out a lot. I'd recommend having it on your main hand at least until you get enough stats for the other enchants to pull ahead and having a stat enchant on your offhand.

  9. #49

  10. #50
    Grunt
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    The shattered nerf makes sense. It shouldn't be the top enchant when it costs so little...The 5% nerf definitely a hard blow though...

  11. #51
    Slaty do you have SEF code for simcraft ? I want to compere 5 target fight with diffirent stat \ ench ?

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadxi View Post
    Slaty do you have SEF code for simcraft ? I want to compere 5 target fight with diffirent stat \ ench ?
    SEF is not yet implemented right now in Simcraft. Reia/Navv (one of the main devs on SimC) and myself are currently in the process of getting it implemented. He is coming up with problems I never thought about (such as spawning and despawning issues). Once the base code is implemented I can fairly quickly add in the abilites that the clones use. But it's the base code that will take time.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    Windwalkers nerfed by 5%
    Lets not talk about that!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by samadxi View Post
    Slaty do you have SEF code for simcraft ? I want to compere 5 target fight with diffirent stat \ ench ?
    I don't think there is any Simcraft code in this spreadsheet.

    What are you trying to simulate? Tectus?

    Storm Earth and Fire and Shattered Hand don't mix well. It would be interesting to see if SEF clone crits refresh the duration of Thunderlord, but I doubt it. If it were me I would go double Thunderlord.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    I don't think there is any Simcraft code in this spreadsheet.

    What are you trying to simulate? Tectus?

    Storm Earth and Fire and Shattered Hand don't mix well. It would be interesting to see if SEF clone crits refresh the duration of Thunderlord, but I doubt it. If it were me I would go double Thunderlord.
    Yes Tectus. I mix last night in my mythic 2хShatter Had (low dps) , 2x(Frostwolf) and 2x Warsong... 2x Warsong - give optimal rotation and 40k dps, but it not best my dps on tectus =(
    Last edited by samadxi; 2014-12-17 at 10:30 PM.

  16. #56
    New Version up: Rev2

    Added 2h/DW Stat Weights
    Added 2H/DW DPS Difference

    Enjoy!

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    New Version up: Rev2

    Added 2h/DW Stat Weights
    Added 2H/DW DPS Difference

    Enjoy!
    Am i missing something or is haste > MS for serenity/chi brew in your spreadsheet ?

  18. #58
    It looks like the wrong talents were turned on for some of the sheets. Thanks for catching that. Should be correct now.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    New Version up: Rev2

    Added 2h/DW Stat Weights
    Added 2H/DW DPS Difference

    Enjoy!
    Hey, I'm not really sure how to interpret this data but I've been looking at it for a while now. I can tell that DW is significantly better than 2H but for practical purposes what does this mean? I have a Heroic Warforged Earthwarped Bladestaff and I'm curious if DW Normal Bladefists could replace this? One Heroic and one Normal Bladefist? When do I know the threshold for when I should be replacing this. I assume it's different for each spec but if you could help me learn how to use this data so I can plug it in to find upgrades that would be really nice (I'm not sure how much that is to ask).

    This spreadsheet is amazing though, thank you so much for it.

  20. #60
    So, a 2H weapon needs to make up about 600 DPS compared to the same level DW weapons.

    Using the weapon stats going from regular to warforged Earthwarped Greatstaff:

    Normal 655:
    378.82 DPS
    211 Agi
    272 Secondary Stats

    Warforged 661:
    400.54
    223 Agi
    287 Secondary Stats

    Difference /ilvl:
    3.72 DPS
    2 Agi
    2.5 Secondary Stats

    Multiplied by the stat weights (Asc/Serenity):

    3.72*7.47 + 2*3.02 + 2.5*1.12 = 27.79 + 6.04 + 2.8 = 36.63 DPS per ilvl

    So to make up a 627 DPS margin, you need approx 16.95 ilvls (basically another dificulty above) to make up the difference from the bonus weapon enchant and DW white damage. The difference is larger with Chi Explosion, as weapon damage isn't as important as the extra stats.

    I'll try to test this when I can, need to save up some 630 weapons from missions.

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