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  1. #41
    Field Marshal Rayocell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    Is anyone still using EF? Because right now, its plain Bad. The HOT is ticking for nothing immo. Sacred Shield or selfless Healer seems a much better option.
    I'm still using it. It was 10-12% of my healing and works will with Divine Purpose.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    nice guide

  3. #43
    I only use SS personally, I do not like EF and also feel it heals for very little, but then again that's most heals right now.

  4. #44
    Im going for SS until I get the 2 set bonus. Using SS gives us room to use LoD, I know that LoD sucks atm and not really worth to be a 3 HP finisher, but its something.

  5. #45
    I know everything has been big on whether or not you have gear, however I feel that sanctified wrath has been most helpful with Avenging wrath and high dmg phases. I was using SS before my gear but better but after more gear I feel as though EF has been better for blanketing. I know shields are not as strong right now but I still feel that the help with healing ticks and small shields is a bigger difference.

  6. #46
    are these stats prios accurate? i got an epic self crafted neck with crit and haste. theother i got is with multi and spirit and a socket i put crit inside.
    13/13

    Monk

  7. #47
    does anyone else have a second healer class and feel like paladin is way nerfed compared?? I mean holy shocking for 10,000? but my disc priest penance is about 60,000... Holy light heals for very light, for the same long cast as holy light priest has clarity of will putting a massive 40-50k shield with no cooldown and no weakened soul so you can spam it pretty good.. I tried EF out and the amount it was ticking for was so little it just feels like paladin is way behind right now for some reason.... I used to like the selfless healing spec which is gone - now we are supposed to crusader strike for holy power? kinda weird that gives HP but not judgement ..


    I feel like the way we are supposed to heal now is bubble up 3x people - beacon 2x people - spam flash of light on one of the two beacon targets getting the 40% less mana cost making it almost viable to spam during heavy damage... Everything else either heals for crap or like holy radiance too expensive till getting a huge amount of spirit
    Last edited by Donalld; 2014-11-27 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dondivine View Post
    does anyone else have a second healer class and feel like paladin is way nerfed compared?? I mean holy shocking for 10,000? but my disc priest penance is about 60,000... Holy light heals for very light, for the same long cast as holy light priest has clarity of will putting a massive 40-50k shield with no cooldown and no weakened soul so you can spam it pretty good.. I tried EF out and the amount it was ticking for was so little it just feels like paladin is way behind right now for some reason.... I used to like the selfless healing spec which is gone - now we are supposed to crusader strike for holy power? kinda weird that gives HP but not judgement ..


    I feel like the way we are supposed to heal now is bubble up 3x people - beacon 2x people - spam flash of light on one of the two beacon targets getting the 40% less mana cost making it almost viable to spam during heavy damage... Everything else either heals for crap or like holy radiance too expensive till getting a huge amount of spirit
    yes play a mistweaver - better gear. but have to play pala in our raid then. but, there will be buffs for us.
    13/13

    Monk

  9. #49
    Deleted
    "Frequent beacon swaps is a dead play style." - is quoted in the guide on page 1 by HolyBouch

    However, I see many holy paladin players jumping into threads (even today) stating beacon swapping is what separates the good paladins from the bad ones...

    I presume they mean using the glyph to remove the CD on BoL and macro with flash of light to improve FoL spam on whoever needs it...?
    Now, I suppose it would be worth it for the 40% reduction in FoL mana cost if it healed for a decent amount, currently an undertuned single target heal imo.

    Opinions?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by smurftech View Post
    "Frequent beacon swaps is a dead play style." - is quoted in the guide on page 1 by HolyBouch

    However, I see many holy paladin players jumping into threads (even today) stating beacon swapping is what separates the good paladins from the bad ones...

    I presume they mean using the glyph to remove the CD on BoL and macro with flash of light to improve FoL spam on whoever needs it...?
    Now, I suppose it would be worth it for the 40% reduction in FoL mana cost if it healed for a decent amount, currently an undertuned single target heal imo.

    Opinions?
    I'm assuming that he is speaking of swapping them in macro with FoL/HL. Swapping your beacon as needed is how Beacon has always been intended to be used. There is a big difference between the two. Nothing wrong with swapping when your secondary Beacon is no longer taking damage but a new target is. Swapping beacon just to save mana when casting FoL/HL on a target, is a dead playstyle.

  11. #51
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceresc View Post
    I'm assuming that he is speaking of swapping them in macro with FoL/HL. Swapping your beacon as needed is how Beacon has always been intended to be used. There is a big difference between the two. Nothing wrong with swapping when your secondary Beacon is no longer taking damage but a new target is. Swapping beacon just to save mana when casting FoL/HL on a target, is a dead playstyle.
    So, if I understand this correctly, beacon swapping occasionally as needed is correct but macroing BoL to FoL (with BoL Glyph) and using that macro instead of just FoL is not advised.

    Only doing 5 mans atm but I usually use BoL on tank and BoF on me or squishy dps (usually a rogue) and just EF all round and HL/FoL tank as needed. Holy Prism is usually a godsend as all heals seem underpowered at ilvl 613 ish.

    I dont use this kind of macro, just wondering what's wrong with it? I have seen other threads mention using the swap BoL/Fol(HL) macro... Does it take 2 GCD's for each cast of this macro? Does using it on a player that already has BoL mess it up? Is this why it's dead?

  12. #52
    btw, I wonder why I never see the mastery-argument in the EF-SS-discussion. Which makes EF alot stronger in 5man imo.
    Most of the time we have enough HP, because using it right away feels really weak. So when a DD gets hit by something, I use HL + EF on him which is quite some heal and thanks to that (mediocre) HoT our mastery shield is up on the target for 45sec, which is enough time to actually be of some use (most bosses do some little aoe dmg every ~20-60sec, if the DD fails, he will get dmg sooner obviously )
    And that shield ist not even small, depending on how much you had to heal 10k to 20k...

    And the text about Saved by the Light is kinda old, isn't it. The talent was way better than anticipated imo, especially with beacon swapping
    I run it most of the time in 5man/cm, for raiding I guess it will be 2 beacons though

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by smurftech View Post
    So, if I understand this correctly, beacon swapping occasionally as needed is correct but macroing BoL to FoL (with BoL Glyph) and using that macro instead of just FoL is not advised.

    Only doing 5 mans atm but I usually use BoL on tank and BoF on me or squishy dps (usually a rogue) and just EF all round and HL/FoL tank as needed. Holy Prism is usually a godsend as all heals seem underpowered at ilvl 613 ish.

    I dont use this kind of macro, just wondering what's wrong with it? I have seen other threads mention using the swap BoL/Fol(HL) macro... Does it take 2 GCD's for each cast of this macro? Does using it on a player that already has BoL mess it up? Is this why it's dead?
    no gcd because u take the glyph. i would not recommend to macro the beacon. just put it on a good key. like f.
    13/13

    Monk

  14. #54
    If anyone (like me) is nuts enough to want to sim Holy paladin DPS then Denounce and its glyph are being added in the next SimulationCraft release.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dondivine View Post
    does anyone else have a second healer class and feel like paladin is way nerfed compared?? I mean holy shocking for 10,000? but my disc priest penance is about 60,000... Holy light heals for very light, for the same long cast as holy light priest has clarity of will putting a massive 40-50k shield with no cooldown and no weakened soul so you can spam it pretty good.. I tried EF out and the amount it was ticking for was so little it just feels like paladin is way behind right now for some reason.... I used to like the selfless healing spec which is gone - now we are supposed to crusader strike for holy power? kinda weird that gives HP but not judgement ..

    I feel like the way we are supposed to heal now is bubble up 3x people - beacon 2x people - spam flash of light on one of the two beacon targets getting the 40% less mana cost making it almost viable to spam during heavy damage... Everything else either heals for crap or like holy radiance too expensive till getting a huge amount of spirit
    Maining holy priest and got a restro druid on 100 as well.
    I only get my holy paladin to 100 yesterday and have been healing normal modes with randoms.
    I think you can't "just" look at the heal output numbers. With the two flames you are healing up to 3 people, where other classes only put heal on one target. Penance is nice, but has to be channeled and single target.
    I had the least mana issues with the holy paladin, priest is just drying out due to needed flash heal + heal spam and druid.. lets not talk about druids.
    Overall I feel that heals are not strong enough to get tanks up again. At least in CMs my tank gets 60-120k hits and I only heal 20k with flash heal (priest). 1.4sec cast for 20k noncrit and in that time he gets more damage. Druid can do this nice swiftmend (15sec cd)+regrowth+natures swiftmend (1min cd) combo that heals a lot. I am missing some kind of often useable mechanic for the pala and priest.
    In 5man HCs I can spam wrath as druid, do 5k dps and heal without thinking. As a priest I have to spam and got no real CD to use (guardian once, yay..) and with pala it feels the same, only that I have a lot more CDs to use.
    But AoE healing with pala feels "melee friendly". HR and daybreak are only 10 yards, Holy Prismn 15yards. LoD with 3*25% SP sounds really really weak.

    I hope we get some healer buffs/nerfs or trash mobs nerfs soon. Pala compared to Priest feels balanaced, but taking the druid into it, it feels just wrong, only talking about 5man.
    I am kinda praying that druids suck in raids... buuut with the reju spam mechanic + genisis on movement heavy fights I fear that they will do too well again.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    btw, I wonder why I never see the mastery-argument in the EF-SS-discussion. Which makes EF alot stronger in 5man imo.
    Most of the time we have enough HP, because using it right away feels really weak. So when a DD gets hit by something, I use HL + EF on him which is quite some heal and thanks to that (mediocre) HoT our mastery shield is up on the target for 45sec, which is enough time to actually be of some use (most bosses do some little aoe dmg every ~20-60sec, if the DD fails, he will get dmg sooner obviously )
    And that shield ist not even small, depending on how much you had to heal 10k to 20k...

    And the text about Saved by the Light is kinda old, isn't it. The talent was way better than anticipated imo, especially with beacon swapping
    I run it most of the time in 5man/cm, for raiding I guess it will be 2 beacons though
    the entire guide was written from a raiding perspective. Guides are only popping up now with different tactics because of the big difference between 5 and 20 man. While raiding it won't be you're job to keep everyone alive you will have more or less "healing assignments". I put in the air quotes because in general if you have a skilled group who knows their class they are going to try and play it to the best effect. Namely the druids/shamans/hpriests/monks are going to try to AE and spot heal. Disc priests might actually pose a threat when it comes to the tanks but a really good one will be presheilding people who are about to take things to snipe those dirty AE healers.

    Also think about this. The tick for Eternal flame is about 800 for me. That means you have potentially another 2x400 heal on your beacons. Consider it's every 2x for 30 secs for around 15 ticks and you have around 24k healing raw. Then add in around 20% mastery (I am using conservative values for emphasis) and you have 26.4k healing from the using eternal flame. Now i am not going to get into the base healing of wog vs lod and the added benefit of ss vs the gcd + mana cost to use it because holy bounch has already covered this. What i can tell you is that SS offered better tank coverage in CM but oomed me every fight and hurt my party healing so i decided to drop using it at all.

    Also i find DP is underrated. it procs quite a bit and doesn't dip into your mana although it's randomness leaves much to be desired. I imagine with 2-4piece it will be quite required as you can't quite get the full benefit out of wrath without ooming. Merciful is also required in dungeons as you don't need the full effect to full heal a 5 man. I would also consider using it in raiding depending on damage patterns and how happy go lucky your other healers are with cds.

  17. #57
    Bugger. Even using the lowest mana level 90 talent (Execution Sentence) we still don't have enough mana regen with 0 spirit to use a DPS rotation for more than about 6 1/2 minutes.

    If anyone's curious, SimC did get Denounce, its glyph, and Holy Shock's glyph in but Denounce isn't critting right (read: it's not critting at all) and Holy Shock isn't doing DPS right at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  18. #58
    After sweating my arse on some heroics as healadin and reading a bit, i went to try EF and it seems better than SS.
    Precast some HS and EF to fill Tank and non beacons with the hots and i could control much better the inc dmg on all the party since i always had 2 or 3 hots rolling on the party.
    Last edited by Underscore; 2014-12-01 at 11:48 PM.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Should i follow this guide 100% , or should i make some changes like instead of usin [Sanctified Wrath] go for Holy Avenger(i believe it its better for the stacks since i'm using Eternal Flame).Also please explain why you go for Beacon of Faith than the Saved by the light?Why do i need 2 beacons in the group(in raid there will be like 3 or 4 healers so they will be able to keep alive the 2 tanks).About the Glyphs the beacon of light if totaly useless for me.Explain please.

  20. #60
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimrock View Post
    Should i follow this guide 100% , or should i make some changes like instead of usin [Sanctified Wrath] go for Holy Avenger(i believe it its better for the stacks since i'm using Eternal Flame).Also please explain why you go for Beacon of Faith than the Saved by the light?Why do i need 2 beacons in the group(in raid there will be like 3 or 4 healers so they will be able to keep alive the 2 tanks).About the Glyphs the beacon of light if totaly useless for me.Explain please.
    100% or doing it wrong.


    gg

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