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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire frangeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akaihiryuu View Post
    There's nothing new here. This isn't spoilers. This should be common knowledge to ANYONE who watched the cinematic. Heck, it should be common knowledge to anyone that hasn't been living under a rock since Blizzcon LAST year.
    Yeah I think the same thing too, though I've learned that there is a vast number of people who don't care or don't pay much attention to the lore and just rely on the overall aspects like "Ok, so there's this blind demon dude that I have to kill", "Ok, this expansion is about a giant black dragon who wants to kill everyone", "Ok this has pandas", etc.

    But everyone enjoy different aspects of the game, and don't care much about other ones.

  2. #22
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    That is an interesting connection.

    They must've then switched the story from what they announced at Blozzcon when WoD was announced as I believe they did mention he was building it up over years. I guess they came up with your point number 1.

    Now theoretically they could've done it that way, going back years and waiting years, but they aren't. They could've done it that way using since time literally is relative. Though of course that would make many of the stories odd. (Age of warlords, how Draenei survived, etc.)

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    I'm pretty sure at Blizzcon last year they said he spent years building it up.
    At the point the Iron Horde leaves Draenor through the red portal, Garrosh has been on Draenor from somewhere between 6 months to 2 years. They didn't specify how long it took for him to gain Grom's trust, create the Iron Horde, create the portal, etc. But I guarantee it didn't happen overnight. We don't know how long it took, but the absolute longest he has been there is 2 years.

    Meanwhile, a few months max have passed on Azeroth max since he escaped from prison and vanished through a portal (the last we saw of him in War Crimes). It may not have even been a few months, I'm guessing. Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.

    Do people really have problems understanding how someone can travel somewhere, stay there for 2 years, and then (via time travel or whatever) return to where they were not very long after they left? I mean seriously, is that really that hard to understand? Back to the Future did it. Doctor Who does stuff 100x more complex than that even in episodes that aren't time travel heavy.
    Last edited by Stormspark; 2014-11-12 at 12:59 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    I'm pretty sure at Blizzcon last year they said he spent years building it up.
    Years. Not decades. There was never anything to indicate that he spent the full 35 years between the original events and the MU present there.

    Though it is still questionable whether it is appropriate to say that the IH travels through time, since the alternate and main universes no longer share a common timeline.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    That's what it used to be, look at the tweet though. They changed the story. (Probably because trying to explain relativity in a game isn't the most ideal place)
    OK, but it took him a couple of months then. I want to see the post in which that tweet responds too. I don't honestly believe the tweet was to affirm the time line splits.

    Regardless, it doesn't take away from what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire frangeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akaihiryuu View Post
    At the point the Iron Horde leaves Draenor through the red portal, Garrosh has been on Draenor from somewhere between 6 months to 2 years. They didn't specify how long it took for him to gain Grom's trust, create the Iron Horde, create the portal, etc. But I guarantee it didn't happen overnight. We don't know how long it took, but the absolute longest he has been there is 2 years.

    Meanwhile, a few months max have passed on Azeroth max since he escaped from prison and vanished through a portal (the last we saw of him in War Crimes). It may not have even been a few months, I'm guessing. Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.
    Pretty much! This is a great explanation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    OK, but it took him a couple of months then. I want to see the post in which that tweet responds too. I don't honestly believe the tweet was to affirm the time line splits.

    Regardless, it doesn't take away from what I said.
    I believe you can find that on the mmo-c post link I left in the OP

  6. #26
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangeek View Post
    Pretty much! This is a great explanation

    - - - Updated - - -



    I believe you can find that on the mmo-c post link I left in the OP
    Yep...people that have a hard time understanding this, should watch Doctor Who sometime. Even the SIMPLEST episodes are 10x more complicated. Even Blink is 10x more complicated than this.

    Their brains would explode if they tried to figure out River Song's timeline vs the Doctor.


  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by frangeek View Post
    I believe you can find that on the mmo-c post link I left in the OP
    Found it.

    You purposely misconstrued the intent of the tweet.

    So if you folks wanted to expand on the stories of say the Arakkoa then you should've made a timeline split when Garrosh arrived.


    What this guy is asking isn't what is answered.

    It did split when Garrosh arrived. He's been there for at least several months before they open the portal to Azeroth. (_DonAdams)
    Don Adams is saying the Time-Line changes on AU Draenor, when Garrosh arrives thus splitting AU Draenor's Time-Line, not MU Azeroths. Our time doesn't split at all.

    As for arakkoa, I wrote the WoD arakkoa lore and took care not to retcon. This is what they were before the first horde. (_DonAdams)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire frangeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Found it.

    You purposely misconstrued the intent of the tweet.



    What this guy is asking isn't what is answered.



    Don Adams is saying the Time-Line changes on AU Draenor, when Garrosh arrives thus splitting AU Draenor's Time-Line, not MU Azeroths. Our time doesn't split at all.
    Uhm, I know. That's not what I meant by linking that tweet o.o

    In that tweet it is mentioned that Garrosh spent several months on AU Draenor before the opening of the portal. And that's the part I wanted to put emphasis on, that Garrosh wasn't in Alternative Draenor for 30 years before opening the portal.

    Maybe I wasn't clear enough?
    Last edited by frangeek; 2014-11-12 at 01:16 AM.

  9. #29
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    IDK what the confusion is. This was stated all the way back at BlizzCon2013: "With just two years to build an army..." "This is a two year old army at most..."

  10. #30
    Really, this explains all of it.

    Our timeline is just that: our time line. It's arrogant to think that all the parallel worlds are also running on a timeline that is identical to ours in length, scope or synchronization. It's also selective suspension of disbelief to accept that Garrosh can go to that parallel universe and generate that branching event, but not then reconnect with our timeline at the point he chooses.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Don Adams is saying the Time-Line changes on AU Draenor, when Garrosh arrives thus splitting AU Draenor's Time-Line, not MU Azeroths. Our time doesn't split at all.
    As evidenced by the fact that it already differed from the MU timeline at that point.

  12. #32
    The Iron Horde DOES travel in time. Is the title of your post.

    The Iron Horde DOESN'T TIME TRAVEL, at all.

    Then you start talking about the Time Line splitting, with the Shard and a misused tweet. I don't know why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  13. #33
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nycero View Post
    It's also selective suspension of disbelief to accept that Garrosh can go to that parallel universe and generate that branching event, but not then reconnect with our timeline at the point he chooses.
    He didn't and he can't. That universe (along with an infinite number of others) already exist. Kairoz merely brought Garrosh to that one at that time. And Garrosh can only come to MU Azeroth in the present because he's using the shard of the Vision of Time, which resonates with the one on MU Azeroth.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2014-11-12 at 01:24 AM.

  14. #34
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    As evidenced by the fact that it already differed from the MU timeline at that point.
    It did. Garrosh wasn't born in that timeline. Ner'zhul's wife didn't die. KJ never deceived Ner'zhul because he had no way to. He's going through Gul'dan in this universe to try to get a foothold, but because noone trusts Gul'dan, warlocks haven't been made in huge numbers and a large war hasn't started against the Draenei. In fact, the war against the Draenei doesn't really *start* until we get there an ally with them. Because of these hugely different events (before Garrosh even arrived), Draenor isn't corrupted by this point and looks like it originally did, whereas in our timeline it had already been corrupted by this point (Tanaan was already a desert, SMV was blasted into a green fire wasteland).

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangeek View Post
    Pretty much! This is a great explanation
    Actually, it isn't

    What's the shard connected to, really? Our timeline? Then relatively, the same amount of time would have passed here, so it would have been 2 years between the trial, and the first Iron horde storming through the portal.

    A specific moment in our timeline? Then the iron horde would have started flowing through the portal mere moments after Kairoz and Garrosh vanished through the rift our favorite backstabbing dragon opened during the trial.

    Neither of the two has happened. So no matter how you turn it, the story is wobbly at best. It doesn't matter for me, I will enjoy it regardless, but just wanting to point it out

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Actually, it isn't

    What's the shard connected to, really? Our timeline? Then relatively, the same amount of time would have passed here, so it would have been 2 years between the trial, and the first Iron horde storming through the portal.

    A specific moment in our timeline? Then the iron horde would have started flowing through the portal mere moments after Kairoz and Garrosh vanished through the rift our favorite backstabbing dragon opened during the trial.

    Neither of the two has happened. So no matter how you turn it, the story is wobbly at best. It doesn't matter for me, I will enjoy it regardless, but just wanting to point it out
    It's a shard. Not the entire Vision of Time. It is "anchored" at the point in our timeline where the Vision of Time was shattered. But because it's not the complete device, just a fragment of it, the connection is imprecise. And trying to connect back to that point probably has a margin of error, so it won't hit that time exactly. But we don't know how long it's been in-game since Garrosh's trial, because Blizzard hasn't said. The trial could've been yesterday for all we know.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akaihiryuu View Post
    It's a shard. Not the entire Vision of Time. It is "anchored" at the point in our timeline where the Vision of Time was shattered. But because it's not the complete device, just a fragment of it, the connection is imprecise. And trying to connect back to that point probably has a margin of error, so it won't hit that time exactly. But we don't know how long it's been in-game since Garrosh's trial, because Blizzard hasn't said. The trial could've been yesterday for all we know.
    Possible explanation, but equally flawed.

    Say you are right. It doesn't matter to which EXACT point in time the shard is connected. What does matter, is that its a FIXED point in time, an anchor.
    So each time someone from Draenor steps through that portal, he arrives at this one anchored moment in our universe. Basically, we wouldn't even have to fight them at all We could just chill out, and watch, as all the Iron horde forces arrive at the same time, trying to occupie the same physical space, an impossibility, which nature will quickly resolve in a giant, very messy and splashy explosion of orc-parts

    Physics 1 : 0 Garrosh

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire frangeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    The Iron Horde DOES travel in time. Is the title of your post.

    The Iron Horde DOESN'T TIME TRAVEL, at all.

    Then you start talking about the Time Line splitting, with the Shard and a misused tweet. I don't know why.
    I've never said a word about Time Line splitting o.o the entire reason of this topic is because people thinks Garrosh stayed on AU Draenor for 35 years before coming to our Azeroth, which is wrong. I didn't intend to, nor I pretend to, start talking about the Alternativeness of Draenor or any Universe o.o

    Please disregard the part about timeline splitting in the tweet I used. The only part relevant to the topic is the one about Garrosh's time on AU Draenor before throwing the Iron Horde to our world, which is mentioned in the tweet, therefore the reason I used it.
    Last edited by frangeek; 2014-11-12 at 01:41 AM.

  19. #39
    The time line splitting is what makes your point irrelevant. The Iron Horde didn't travel through time as there is no time gap between the main and alternate universe, because time is not a shared axis between the two.

    Might as well ask if a dog has two or three notches in his tail fin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Actually, it isn't

    What's the shard connected to, really? Our timeline? Then relatively, the same amount of time would have passed here, so it would have been 2 years between the trial, and the first Iron horde storming through the portal.
    Would it? That requires that time passes at the same rate in both universes. It also requires that you can use the shard to return to a specific point in time with 100% accuracy. If either of those is not the case, you can't make that conclusion.

    Sure, the story is a bit wibbly-wobbly, but that is at least partially intentional... it simply isn't important to what is going on. It doesn't matter how long Garrosh spent on Draenor preparing for the invasion, what matters is that there's a bunch of Orcs causing a ruckus in the Blasted Lands, and more are poised to come through the Red Portal and inconvenience us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Possible explanation, but equally flawed.

    Say you are right. It doesn't matter to which EXACT point in time the shard is connected. What does matter, is that its a FIXED point in time, an anchor.
    So each time someone from Draenor steps through that portal, he arrives at this one anchored moment in our universe. Basically, we wouldn't even have to fight them at all We could just chill out, and watch, as all the Iron horde forces arrive at the same time, trying to occupie the same physical space, an impossibility, which nature will quickly resolve in a giant, very messy and splashy explosion of orc-parts

    Physics 1 : 0 Garrosh
    Or, you know, the shard could be anchored to that time, but the portal isn't. People aren't going through the shard.
    Last edited by huth; 2014-11-12 at 01:45 AM.

  20. #40
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Actually, it isn't

    What's the shard connected to, really? Our timeline? Then relatively, the same amount of time would have passed here, so it would have been 2 years between the trial, and the first Iron horde storming through the portal.

    A specific moment in our timeline? Then the iron horde would have started flowing through the portal mere moments after Kairoz and Garrosh vanished through the rift our favorite backstabbing dragon opened during the trial.

    Neither of the two has happened. So no matter how you turn it, the story is wobbly at best. It doesn't matter for me, I will enjoy it regardless, but just wanting to point it out
    The timeshard is from the Hourglass of Time. It is magically/supernaturally connected to ourtimeline. So your logic is basically trying to be realistic when really time traveling never was realistic.
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