[Holy] Holy Sh*t!: Warlords Edition

[Kev MW]

The previous S vs. P discussion is pretty funny to me, considering how terrible mana was for Shamans in Highmaul while Paladins breezed through 15 minute Mar'gok with no issues.

I'm not going to say Paladins are fun to heal with in 6.2 right now, but if you swap back to Spirit enchant and run 2 regen trinkets you won't oom on a fight while playing conservatively. It just might be possible that double Pally won't be in the optimal comp week 1, especially with Druid's insane tank healing at the moment, but class tuning isn't done yet.

[Sparty]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Venism]

Wow wow paladin healing is pretty bland and boring right now but come on SH? That was literally the worst healing gameplay EVER.

I Don't usually post here, but yes I agree, SH should never come back.

[Deipotent]

Wow wow paladin healing is pretty bland and boring right now but come on SH? That was literally the worst healing gameplay EVER.

Oh gosh, you're right...
Oh wait a sec...
I totally forgot about the ENTIRE WotLK expension for a second...
Hold on, I forgot Dragon Soul as well...
But you're right, a dynamic healing style which combined build up and well timed healing, that was the WORST!

What I'm trying to say with SH, is that it would allow a way to build up stacks to make HR usable without obliterating your mana. And allowing us a cheap way to gain more HoPo, which would make WoG/LoD easier/cheaper to use. With both of those, the mana issues which paladins are having in PTR, would be alleviated.

[nightfalls]

SH was terrible, but so is all of WoD. Best, IMO, was probably ToT without the trivializing T14 4pc.

[Dubalicious]

But you're right, a dynamic healing style which combined build up and well timed healing, that was the WORST!

This is your description of SoO holy running SH?

I just don't think there's a 'sweet spot' for judging to be a fun/exciting part of holy's gameplay. Require it too little and it feels insignificant (once per minute), require it too often and it feels forced (rotational - 6s, 10s, etc.). Maybe something in between wouldn't suck, but I'm skeptical.

[siccora]

best was hpal with tbc. relic swap. judgment for manaseal. good stuff. this was nice imo.

is this here still the stat prio? i thought mastery comes after crit

Intellect;
Critical Strike;
Haste;
Multistrike;
Versatility;
Mastery.

[Deipotent]

Is this here still the stat prio? i thought mastery comes after crit

Intellect;
Critical Strike;
Haste;
Multistrike;
Versatility;
Mastery.

I'd say:
Int>Crit>Mastery>Haste>Multi=Vers

Based on double beacon

[CloudedInSanity]

I prefer Int > Crit > Mastery > Haste > Vers > Multi.

Seems what a lot of top end HPals are going with also, I just like Mastery of Haste, and with the changes to Mastery next tier more haste means more oom, sadly.

I go Vers > Multi simply because of the damage reduction component it also offers, since they are so close anyways.

[siccora]

I prefer Int > Crit > Mastery > Haste > Vers > Multi.

Seems what a lot of top end HPals are going with also, I just like Mastery of Haste, and with the changes to Mastery next tier more haste means more oom, sadly.

I go Vers > Multi simply because of the damage reduction component it also offers, since they are so close anyways.

i ask because of the importance of int. i was looking for statweights for int and then the rest.
like is this belt here better
http://www.wowhead.com/item=113950/i...r&bonus=42:567

then
http://www.wowhead.com/item=113659/f...belt&bonus=567

i dont know if there is a rule of thumb "always go with the higher ilvl"

[Mokal]

more hpala nerfs, time to reroll to better class?

[Deleted]

more hpala nerfs, time to reroll to better class?

why should we even use it regularly ?

[Deleted]

I'd say:
Int>Crit>Mastery>Haste>Multi=Vers

Based on double beacon

Eh, I disagree. If anything, mastery should become a weak(er) stat given that our 2P bonus is beacon-based (and so gains nothing at all from mastery) and the leech trinket (which despite just being nerfed by 50% is probably still OP) also gains nothing from mastery.

If anything, I'm tempted to say it will be Int > Crit > Haste > Multi > Vers ~= Mastery. One caveat of this though: if we are as mana-limited as we currently are on PTR, then it might be that haste loses value because of its impact on regen.

As for the comment regarding many top end holy paladins running Mastery > Haste -- that's true, but it wasn't during progress. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because mastery is a better padding stat for farm.

[Deleted]

http://i.imgur.com/vutdl9k.png

like srsly blizzard?
376 spirit down from like 525?
thats like 1/2 of the brf spirit value on trinkets. just stupid....

at least it has required classes now, so mages und warlocks cant wear this trinket. Shadowpriest and owls still can.

[Deipotent]

Eh, I disagree. If anything, mastery should become a weak(er) stat given that our 2P bonus is beacon-based (and so gains nothing at all from mastery) and the leech trinket (which despite just being nerfed by 50% is probably still OP) also gains nothing from mastery.

If anything, I'm tempted to say it will be Int > Crit > Haste > Multi > Vers ~= Mastery. One caveat of this though: if we are as mana-limited as we currently are on PTR, then it might be that haste loses value because of its impact on regen.

As for the comment regarding many top end holy paladins running Mastery > Haste -- that's true, but it wasn't during progress. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because mastery is a better padding stat for farm.

As it stands, I'm imagining that we're going to be doing more on-beacon healing to save mana in 6.2. Essentially, HS on non beacons and HL+FL on beacons. And I value haste less because the higher our crit goes, the less valuable it becomes.

[Awakes]

As it stands, I'm imagining that we're going to be doing more on-beacon healing to save mana in 6.2. Essentially, HS on non beacons and HL+FL on beacons. And I value haste less because the higher our crit goes, the less valuable it becomes.

if that becomes true. I dont see how we can be relevant! Since monk and resto druid will be able to tank heal aswell as us and we wont be able to offheal on the raid??.. Oo

[CloudedInSanity]

Eh, I disagree. If anything, mastery should become a weak(er) stat given that our 2P bonus is beacon-based (and so gains nothing at all from mastery) and the leech trinket (which despite just being nerfed by 50% is probably still OP) also gains nothing from mastery.

If anything, I'm tempted to say it will be Int > Crit > Haste > Multi > Vers ~= Mastery. One caveat of this though: if we are as mana-limited as we currently are on PTR, then it might be that haste loses value because of its impact on regen.

As for the comment regarding many top end holy paladins running Mastery > Haste -- that's true, but it wasn't during progress. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because mastery is a better padding stat for farm.

Some top-tier Paladins did run a pretty Mastery high build for progression. Also, our 2P doesn't really reduce the value of Mastery overly, because of how much overhealing Beacon already does in the first place.

As far as the trinket goes, I don't see Holy Paladins using that. We will probably get the Int/Spirit/Crit Use trinket, and Archimondes. The Leech trinket will be better given to the throughput healers first on top of that.

[Jackielope]

"Holy

Infusion of Light Your Holy Shock criticals reduce the cast time of your next Holy Light or Holy Radiance by 1.50 sec or increase the healing of your next Flash of Light by x60%x 50%. Also increases your haste by 10%. Paladin - Holy Spec."


Heh, Blizzard is nerfing that despite the fact that it'd need a buff as my numbers from earlier showed, if we're only looking at that single cast. 50% buffs FoL from 240% to 360% SP compared to HL's 300%. 360 is only 120% of 300. It would only do 20% more healing, but be slower and cost more.

I suppose some more calculations are in order to see if using 1 IoL+FoL + FoL is better than 1 IoL HL + 1 FoL for HPS.

Since IoL gives 10% haste, the cast of FoL would be 1.3636. Times by 2 to get 2.7272. 360% + 240% = 600%. 600 / 2.7272 = 220% SP HPS.

1 second HL is 300% SP, plus a 240% FoL at 1.3636 second is a total of 540% SP healing over 2.3636 seconds. 540 / 2.3636 = 228.5% SP HPS. Add in 100 MS latency and it's 540 / 2.4636 which equals 219.2. This is not factoring in the extra partial cast made in the time difference.

In other words, at base 10% haste they're pretty equal for HPS. They shouldn't be if FoL is meant to be more HPS.


50% haste perhaps?

1 second FoLs. 360 + 240 = 600, over 2 seconds, so 600 / 2 = 300% SP HPS.

1 second HL + 1 second FoL means 300 + 240 = 540 over 2 seconds, so 540 / 2 = 270% SP HPS.

300 / 270 = 1.11. In other words, even at 50% haste GCD cap using two FoL is only 11% more HPS with one IoL use. That's worse than the regular 33% HPS FoL does over HL.


Blizzard, what the hell are you doing?

[CloudedInSanity]

"Holy

Infusion of Light Your Holy Shock criticals reduce the cast time of your next Holy Light or Holy Radiance by 1.50 sec or increase the healing of your next Flash of Light by x60%x 50%. Also increases your haste by 10%. Paladin - Holy Spec."


Heh, Blizzard is nerfing that despite the fact that it'd need a buff as my numbers from earlier showed, if we're only looking at that single cast. 50% buffs FoL from 240% to 360% SP compared to HL's 300%. 360 is only 120% of 300. It would only do 20% more healing, but be slower and cost more.

I suppose some more calculations are in order to see if using 1 IoL+FoL + FoL is better than 1 IoL HL + 1 FoL for HPS.

Since IoL gives 10% haste, the cast of FoL would be 1.3636. Times by 2 to get 2.7272. 360% + 240% = 600%. 600 / 2.7272 = 220% SP HPS.

1 second HL is 300% SP, plus a 240% FoL at 1.3636 second is a total of 540% SP healing over 2.3636 seconds. 540 / 2.3636 = 228.5% SP HPS. Add in 100 MS latency and it's 540 / 2.4636 which equals 219.2. This is not factoring in the extra partial cast made in the time difference.

In other words, at base 10% haste they're pretty equal for HPS. They shouldn't be if FoL is meant to be more HPS.


50% haste perhaps?

1 second FoLs. 360 + 240 = 600, over 2 seconds, so 600 / 2 = 300% SP HPS.

1 second HL + 1 second FoL means 300 + 240 = 540 over 2 seconds, so 540 / 2 = 270% SP HPS.

300 / 270 = 1.11. In other words, even at 50% haste GCD cap using two FoL is only 11% more HPS with one IoL use. That's worse than the regular 33% HPS FoL does over HL.


Blizzard, what the hell are you doing?

Maybe we should stop assuming that Blizzard actually calculates the impacts of the changes they make.

[btard]

"Holy
Heh, Blizzard is nerfing that despite the fact that it'd need a buff as my numbers from earlier showed, if we're only looking at that single cast. 50% buffs FoL from 240% to 360% SP compared to HL's 300%. 360 is only 120% of 300. It would only do 20% more healing, but be slower and cost more.

Where did you get these numbers from? HL and FoL both heal for the same value. At least for me.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=112859/holy-insight
See the Effect #11 there