[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Kanadei]

I will have to agree with Hashtags, don't get me wrong this thread is cool and it dose helps to a point but not many people are going to sit here and read 12 pages of stuff where people are disagree with each other non stop. In short there is no clear answer to any questions that I or any one may have.

Well, if its meant to be like the MOP thread then ideally there would be a first page for generic FAQs and then people can chime in to answer the simple stuff as people ask it while in the meantime debating small differences and how to properly sim data.

Just like the MMO-C gods intended.

[Oopsmezedya]

so is EMPS + DP the way to go now, 15% haste buff and mostly siting in insight

[Deleted]

I feel like most really new people will do one of two things;

Go with Holy Shield because it seems the most powerful at a glance and takes no effort on their part to use; naturally they'll then stack either Haste (if they follow that Haste is their attuned stat) or Mastery (if they make the connection that blocking more gets more out of HS), disregarding the other stats completely.

OR

They'll just look up the armory of whoever's remotely e-famous/someone they know in a raiding guild and copy their spec and gear. Even if they don't know how to use the talents properly.

This is a discussion thread, not a "how to" thread, so it's not really on any of us to make a FAQ or guide (although once everything's solid it would probably cut down on same-questions that inevitably pop up). What I meant by my statement is that people who have been following the discussion shouldn't feel put off about joining in because we can't go a page without throwing an insult or "cool" one liner at someone. I said new players, but what I meant was people new to the class forums here. Arguing points or making statements backed up by testing and evidence and related experience is fine, being a condescending dick because someone has a different opinion or idea isn't and just shits up the thread. It's really not needed since ultimately we all enjoy this class and want to get the most out of it.

[hashtags]

so is EMPS + DP the way to go now, 15% haste buff and mostly siting in insight

Kindly read the thread. Preferably from page 6 onwards.

[Deleted]

On another note, I am having the worst luck with my Blacksmithing items =] fuck this random stat shit.

Vers/MS anyone?

I think after I reroll it to the right stats I'll stop making armor. The raid will be open before I make my third item, and with the normal/flex ilvl being 665 or w/e it's a waste.

Gonna start working on that sweet healer shield instead for transmog:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=120261&bonus=559

[hashtags]

I feel like most really new people will do one of two things;

Go with Holy Shield because it seems the most powerful at a glance and takes no effort on their part to use; naturally they'll then stack either Haste (if they follow that Haste is their attuned stat) or Mastery (if they make the connection that blocking more gets more out of HS), disregarding the other stats completely.

OR

They'll just look up the armory of whoever's remotely e-famous/someone they know in a raiding guild and copy their spec and gear. Even if they don't know how to use the talents properly.

This is a discussion thread, not a "how to" thread, so it's not really on any of us to make a FAQ or guide (although once everything's solid it would probably cut down on same-questions that inevitably pop up). What I meant by my statement is that people who have been following the discussion shouldn't feel put off about joining in because we can't go a page without throwing an insult or "cool" one liner at someone. I said new players, but what I meant was people new to the class forums here. Arguing points or making statements backed up by testing and evidence and related experience is fine, being a condescending dick because someone has a different opinion or idea isn't and just shits up the thread. It's really not needed since ultimately we all enjoy this class and want to get the most out of it.

Well it makes most sense to go with Holy Shield if you are new to class/fight etc as it is a competent enough option. But the worse thing people do and I was guilty of it myself was look up famous raiders and then just copy what they are doing without thinking what/why are they doing it. But again that kind of thing doesn't cut it in progression raiding. As far as faq once things finalize we will have a FAQ thread hopefully because even looking at this thread every couple of pages somebody comes in and ask the same question.

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On another note, I am having the worst luck with my Blacksmithing items =] fuck this random stat shit.

Vers/MS anyone?

I think after I reroll it to the right stats I'll stop making armor. The raid will be open before I make my third item, and with the normal/flex ilvl being 665 or w/e it's a waste.

Gonna start working on that sweet healer shield instead for transmog:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=120261&bonus=559

TBH i didn't like the way the handled professions & I haven't tried making any armor on my own. I just bought the pieces I needed. Right people are asking stupid prices for 640 ilvl item. I am 642 right now. Here's hoping I will get some upgrades in Highmaul before mythic starts.

[Puzzony]

With today's hotfix about Crusader strike/HotR being able to proc Grand Crusader, i got a wild theory in my mind about they are preparing prot to have a 'dps spec' just like the warriors have with glad stance. Seeing that EmpS is really unpopular, they could just remove it from prot and give something instead of it *tips tinfoil hat* .

[Susira]

Hi guys, I'm having a hard time debating if I should buy Kyb's Foolish Perseverance and Knight's Badge

http://www.wowhead.com/item=118884
http://www.wowhead.com/item=112319/&bonus=527 (stage 1)

Will these get replaced in Highmaul?

[Deleted]

Hi guys, I'm having a hard time debating if I should buy Kyb's Foolish Perseverance and Knight's Badge

http://www.wowhead.com/item=118884
http://www.wowhead.com/item=112319/&bonus=527 (stage 1)

Will these get replaced in Highmaul?

Stamina trinkets are shit, avoid them like the plague. Knight's Badge isn't bad per se but you're going to replace it extremely quickly with Pol's Blinded Eye, Evergaze Arcane Eidolon or Pillar of the Earth.

Edit: I should clarify - stam trinkets are not necessarily completely useless on the off chance that there is a very, very magic-damage heavy fight in Highmaul. That said, I would not under any circumstances spend the gold most server economies are asking for on those two trinkets.

[Reghame]

Stamina trinkets are shit, avoid them like the plague. Knight's Badge isn't bad per se but you're going to replace it extremely quickly with Pol's Blinded Eye, Evergaze Arcane Eidolon or Pillar of the Earth.

Edit: I should clarify - stam trinkets are not necessarily completely useless on the off chance that there is a very, very magic-damage heavy fight in Highmaul. That said, I would not under any circumstances spend the gold most server economies are asking for on those two trinkets.

stamina is indeed just bad, just get bonus armor or a mastery trinket and be much better off because you can either block more spells with HS, or just absorb and heal more. stamina is a dead stat for all i care. Stack that BA and mastery for increases healing and damage so the boss dies quicker than you do.

remember guys. The boss does not do damage to you if it is dead! thats mostly why we went for haste last expansion anyway!

[Garkanh]

so after the changes today (or yesterday i assume), with the reduced effect of mastery, i guess the stat priority will no longer be bonus armor - mastery - vers - crit - multi - haste

been stacking as much mastery/vers gear and mastery/bonus armor gear as possible, but now it seems that will no longer be the way to go.

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stamina is indeed just bad, just get bonus armor or a mastery trinket and be much better off because you can either block more spells with HS, or just absorb and heal more. stamina is a dead stat for all i care. Stack that BA and mastery for increases healing and damage so the boss dies quicker than you do.

remember guys. The boss does not do damage to you if it is dead! thats mostly why we went for haste last expansion anyway!

hmm, are you sure about this? i've been running with the BA/mastery and BA/multi hc trinkets, and just recently got the warforged stamina/mastery proc trinket from everbloom, and swapped the multistrike/BA trinket out with the stamina one

also, i'm gemming full stamina, since it's recommended by icy veins

[Deleted]

so after the changes today (or yesterday i assume), with the reduced effect of mastery, i guess the stat priority will no longer be bonus armor - mastery - vers - crit - multi - haste

been stacking as much mastery/vers gear and mastery/bonus armor gear as possible, but now it seems that will no longer be the way to go.

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hmm, are you sure about this? i've been running with the BA/mastery and BA/multi hc trinkets, and just recently got the warforged stamina/mastery proc trinket from everbloom, and swapped the multistrike/BA trinket out with the stamina one

also, i'm gemming full stamina, since it's recommended by icy veins

http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/12...ds-of-draenor/

Refer to the part about stat weights and notice how stamina barely edges out mastery point-for-point. In aeons past (i.e MoP, where we still didn't give a flying fuck about stamina apart from very, very early and undergeared progression) stamina outperformed our secondaries by a ratio of 2:1 with regards to this metric and we didn't gem for it, ever.

Basically, by gemming stamina, you're retard-proofing your performance (in the sense that you're giving yourself more margin to fuck up) at the cost of a metric ton of DPS. Just using that stam trinket instead of a BA one is approximately a 3% AP loss, and doing silly stuff like gemming stamina on top of that is just making you even more of an unnecessary burden on everyone who has to slug through content behind you.

The only situation in WoD where using stam trinkets and gemming for stam doesn't make you a laughing stock is when all the damage from a fight is magical. That is literally the only situation in which stam trinkets are seriously acceptable over double BA or str trinkets.

[tuesday the paladin]

Hi guys, I'm having a hard time debating if I should buy Kyb's Foolish Perseverance and Knight's Badge

http://www.wowhead.com/item=118884
http://www.wowhead.com/item=112319/&bonus=527 (stage 1)

Will these get replaced in Highmaul?

While stamina trinkets aren't great Kyb's has a TON of stamina on it. It is a bit better than the conquest trinket with a similar use, and the next closest PVE trinket in stamina value is the mythic warforged trinket off blackhand, and it has 150 stamina less. If there is a situation where you absolutely have to have more stamina kybs is a good option, but it is very unlikely that you'll encounter that.

[Garkanh]

http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/12...ds-of-draenor/

Refer to the part about stat weights and notice how stamina barely edges out mastery point-for-point. In aeons past (i.e MoP, where we still didn't give a flying fuck about stamina apart from very, very early and undergeared progression) stamina outperformed our secondaries by a ratio of 2:1 with regards to this metric and we didn't gem for it, ever.

Basically, by gemming stamina, you're retard-proofing your performance (in the sense that you're giving yourself more margin to fuck up) at the cost of a metric ton of DPS. Just using that stam trinket instead of a BA one is approximately a 3% AP loss, and doing silly stuff like gemming stamina on top of that is just making you even more of an unnecessary burden on everyone who has to slug through content behind you.

The only situation in WoD where using stam trinkets and gemming for stam doesn't make you a laughing stock is when all the damage from a fight is magical. That is literally the only situation in which stam trinkets are seriously acceptable over double BA or str trinkets.

i tryed to read most of that, but gave up trying to understand most of it.

but i want to perform as well as possible, even though i'm not in a high-end guild. i've never done mythic raiding, but got ahead of the curve on most raids where i have been raiding (all of MoP except ToT since i was in the army at that time), but just recently switched to my prot paladin.

here is a armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Maraat/simple

i started off gemming mastery, but all the guides i read like icy veins: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protect...pve-tank-guide states that i should gem for stamina.

aswell, you would switch out the stamina trinket for the 159 Bonus armor / 159 Multistrike trinket?

and should i try and switch to seraphim or emp. zeals instead of holy shield?

[hashtags]

I don't get why you guys dislike mastery. I personally think it is our best stat followed by mastery untill we get t17 4pc , which is when mastery outperforms crit.

Extra parry from crit feels really good outside AM and also the amount of GC procs you get is insane.

I think you mean dislike crit?

If that's what you mean then do you think crit value is diminished since now you can get procs from crusader strike as well?

Secondly I don't hate crit. I just based my opinion on what theck proved mathematically. Lastly for me I have been following BA>Mastery>Crit etc.

Unfortunately lack of sockets/reforging + whatever gear I could get I am just trying to have as much mastery as I can.

Lastly right now it doesn't matter. Stats/gear etc will start mattering once Highmaul Mythic hits and how hard the bosses are hitting and what will we be doing then.

[Deleted]

i started off gemming mastery, but all the guides i read like icy veins: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protect...pve-tank-guide states that i should gem for stamina.

You should use Mastery Taladite Icon Mastery Taladite (cheaper) or Greater Mastery Taladite Icon Greater Mastery Taladite (better) in all sockets.

No, they don't.

[Garkanh]

No, they don't.

I guess you Are right, but noxxic and amr both show stamina, and amr Even claims that the stam trinket from ever Bloom is better that most raid trinkets

[Deleted]

I guess you Are right, but noxxic and amr both show stamina, and amr Even claims that the stam trinket from ever Bloom is better that most raid trinkets

Let's just not mention Noxxic in these sacred threads.
It might be "fine" for DPSs, but for tanking/healing it is a terrible joke.

And AMR is still AMR. It is good if you use your own stat weights, but otherwise it just creates a lot of misunderstanding.

Even at the start of MoP, both of them recommended gemming for dodge/parry.
(Noxxic actually did that for months.)

[Garkanh]

Okay, i guess i Will regem when i get home again. Was mostly wondering how much mastery got worse after the update yesterday, but I assume it wasnt enough to make it not be the Best stat

[Xothic]

From what I've been reading the consensus seems to be that it will still be a worthwhile stat, but whether or not it will be top of the list still remains to be seen. Check back in a couple days I'd say, someone will find the answer. Probably Theck. All hail Theck.